Rovers v Rotherham Utd. (h) Wed. 16th Dec. 7.45pm

[roversfan99]

9 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I’m yet to be convinced that Dack and Travis is going to see us surge up the table like many people seem to think it will tbh.

I would obviously love for that to happen!

Also, Armstrong stepped up in a really big way in Dack’s absence, but will they both bring the best out of each other if they play in their favoured positions?

One of the main problems as well is that the likelihood is that by the time they return, we may have a couple more injuries. The idea of a fully fit squad is a fanciful one at the best of times, never mind in an intense 2 games per week schedule with the added risk of isolation etc.

With Dack as well, he missed half of last season and will miss half of this so to compare, its essentially like for like!

[RevidgeBlue]

14 minutes ago, islander200 said:

 we are still only 6 points off the top 6.

I think that's a really weak argument, we're only seven points off 19th as well if you want to take the glass half empty approach. We're going to have to put quite a decent run together to actually break into and establish ourselves in the top 6 and the argument in favour of Mowbray always seems to be "if we plait sawdust for the rest of the season we can break into the top 6".

We never have done thus far and  I wouldn't say "only" being six points off the top six after only 18 games is some sort of badge of honour. There's nothing really to say with any degree of confidence that it's anymore likely that those 6 points won't extrapolate into 15 over a 46 game season rather than the other way round.

[islander200]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I think that's a really weak argument, we're only seven points off 19th as well if you want to take the glass half empty approach. We're going to have to put quite a decent run together to actually break into and establish ourselves in the top 6 and the argument in favour of Mowbray always seems to be "if we plait sawdust for the rest of the season we can break into the top 6".

We never have done thus far and  I wouldn't say "only" being six points off the top six after only 18 games is some sort of badge of honour. There's nothing really to say with any degree of confidence that it's anymore likely that those 6 points won't extrapolate into 15 over a 46 game season rather than the other way round.

The previous 2 years I may have agreed with you but we have played well in the majority of our games this season.

6 points off after playing 5 of the top 7 away from home.I haven't checked it out but I will be very surprised if the teams above us have had as tough of fixtures.

And like I said the next 5 fixtures are favourable if we don't pick up a decent points return then I would look to change manager.

I wanted him gone last season but my opinion is we are playing a lot better now and have a squad capable of challenging ,a squad Mowbray built.

 

 

 

[Blue blood]

The 6 points as an argument is highly optimistic on so many levels. First off we've not managed to catch up those points ever before. Under Bowyer or TM we've never caught up those only points ever. Doesn't matter how good or poor the team we haven't broken the glass ceiling of playoffs. 

Secondly it massively assumes none of the teams above us are going to get points. It assumes those in the playoffs are obliging to not pick up any points, nor the teams from 7th to 11th. Optimistic in the extreme. At present even if we do our part of the bargain (unlikely) we need at least 5 teams above us to do worse. 

Then there's assuming there's no other team just below us that doesn't do better than us too. Although at least with that one it's in our hands. 

Sure teams do make a surge but whilst I hope I'm wrong I really don't think it will be us. 

[islander200]

9 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

The 6 points as an argument is highly optimistic on so many levels. First off we've not managed to catch up those points ever before. Under Bowyer or TM we've never caught up those only points ever. Doesn't matter how good or poor the team we haven't broken the glass ceiling of playoffs. 

Secondly it massively assumes none of the teams above us are going to get points. It assumes those in the playoffs are obliging to not pick up any points, nor the teams from 7th to 11th. Optimistic in the extreme. At present even if we do our part of the bargain (unlikely) we need at least 5 teams above us to do worse. 

Then there's assuming there's no other team just below us that doesn't do better than us too. Although at least with that one it's in our hands. 

Sure teams do make a surge but whilst I hope I'm wrong I really don't think it will be us. 

There are 18 games gone all the team's above us we have to play at least once again and the majority of them at home.Those teams have to play eachother aswell.

6 points at this stage of the season is nothing,one good week of 9 points that would potentially put us in the promotion places.

It wouldn't need a surge to make up 6 points between now and the end of the season.I also think it won't take as many points to finish in the top 6 this year as it has in previous years.

[rigger]

I am not really bothered how many points off the top six we are, or who and where we have played. I just know that at the moment I am disappointed with our season so far. 

[Aqualung]

Seems the ifollow thread has died a death to the detriment of match day threads so as I'm sick and tired of buying match day video passes only to find out that audio is available I'll post the link that a generous poster provided in the Bristol City match day thread. 

Im an overseas fan based in Sweden and have had conflicting views on who can watch, when and where. Hope fully this will clear things up to a point but for those of us overseas don't hold your breath. According to the EFLi follow app / website the next game we can't view but audio only is the FA Cup game v Doncaster. 

So hopefully I will be able to watch the Rotherham game. 

https://www.efl.com/broadcast-schedule. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Aqualung
Don't Worry about it

[simongarnerisgod]

rotherham are a big physical side,they`ll keep it tight and look for set pieces whenever they can,i can see us being overpowered tbh,midfield bypassed by long balls,williams scared to death and lenihan getting  carried away with the battle and being sent off!!,they are the type of side that rovers get outmuscled by

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

29 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

rotherham are a big physical side,they`ll keep it tight and look for set pieces whenever they can,i can see us being overpowered tbh,midfield bypassed by long balls,williams scared to death and lenihan getting  carried away with the battle and being sent off!!,they are the type of side that rovers get outmuscled by

I'd be hard pressed to name a team in this division that Rovers can " out muscle ". That's not how we roll these days.

[Stonesrick]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

We haven't had our full squad, so just imagine how good we will be when Dack and Travis come back it. Or do you not think they will make a difference? We arent far off it. 2 results go our way earlier on and we are in the play off places. It's very small margins. Like ,hard to believe, but the other teams want to win too. So many and there is very little between them. 

That's what they say publicly, but I'm sure these results hurt them. It's individual mistakes that are killing us. We are functioning pretty well by and large. The likes of Johnson and Holtby know they need to probably do it this season. Are we lacking leaders? Maybe, but I think this group, manager included deserve the season to give it a go. If we don't make the play offs then, that's it. I honestly can't see Mowbray being here next season if we don't make the play offs this year. 

 

 

I must say I am becoming more and more concerned about Dack for a couple of reasons. Firstly, he has been out for over 12 months now, which seems to be a long long time. Was this such a bad injury or has his rehab not gone as well as expected? He seems to have had a couple of setbacks along the way and my worry is that if he returns and has lost some of his spark or half a yard of pace, then we may not have the player back who we are banking on. Sincerely hope that is not the case because we have missed all his attributes greatly.

Secondly, and just as, if not more worrying is the curse of the last 20 years - Celebrity status. Just hope his recently found fame on trash tv doesn’t make him lose focus and affect his ability on the pitch.

[Sparks Rover]

3 hours ago, islander200 said:

The previous 2 years I may have agreed with you but we have played well in the majority of our games this season.

My worry is that with all the goals we have scored and how we have looked good going forward so far, we are still mid table with as many lost as we have won. If we stop the rich vein of scoring, what then?

[yellowsubmarine]

7 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I'd be hard pressed to name a team in this division that Rovers can " out muscle ". That's not how we roll these days.

Missed those days of Nelsen and Samba and even the Axe to call upon.

[darrenrover]

10 hours ago, rigger said:

I am not really bothered how many points off the top six we are, or who and where we have played. I just know that at the moment I am disappointed with our season so far. 

Yeh, there's been a few false dawns already, it really is disappointing.

[AllRoverAsia]

9 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

My worry is that with all the goals we have scored and how we have looked good going forward so far, we are still mid table with as many lost as we have won. If we stop the rich vein of scoring, what then?

In 18 games we have scored 32 goals, however, 50% of those came over the course of just 4 games, all of which we won without conceding.

We are currently in 12th position and have conceded 22 goals, more than any of the teams above us.

If we stop the rich vein of scoring we are fecked and will start dropping points to teams currently below us.

This and the stats of who we are taking points from does show us currently as flat track bullies and such do not make playoffs.

Edited December 15, 2020 by AllRoverAsia

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 hour ago, darrenrover said:

Yeh, there's been a few false dawns already,

More false dawns than a drag queen convention. 

[darrenrover]

3 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

More false dawns than a drag queen convention. 

🤣🤣

[TimmyJimmy]

11 hours ago, Stonesrick said:

I must say I am becoming more and more concerned about Dack for a couple of reasons. Firstly, he has been out for over 12 months now, which seems to be a long long time. Was this such a bad injury or has his rehab not gone as well as expected? He seems to have had a couple of setbacks along the way and my worry is that if he returns and has lost some of his spark or half a yard of pace, then we may not have the player back who we are banking on. Sincerely hope that is not the case because we have missed all his attributes greatly.

Secondly, and just as, if not more worrying is the curse of the last 20 years - Celebrity status. Just hope his recently found fame on trash tv doesn’t make him lose focus and affect his ability on the pitch.

You read my mind, I was just about to post almost the exact same words. Shearer, our best player ever, came back half the player after his injury. Something smelly about Dack's recovery journey. Should be popping up in many more games by now ie behind closed door matches, under 23s etc.. Can't shake the feeling that he's struggling.  Obviously hope not, he was our stand out player but I worry we've seen the best of him.

[A Northern Horde...]

I was also wondering about Dack,seems to have gone very quiet...worryingly quiet.

We need a good win tomorrow night to lift spirits but can we put a run together,can we find some form?.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by A Northern Horde...

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Dack is due back around the start of the new year. He's only just started full training with the rest of the team. He's bound to gave a few niggles after a year out. 

Not sure Shearer was ever only 'half the player' after his injuries. It must have been his good half because he was still incredible. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[Blue blood]

13 hours ago, islander200 said:

There are 18 games gone all the team's above us we have to play at least once again and the majority of them at home.Those teams have to play eachother aswell.

6 points at this stage of the season is nothing,one good week of 9 points that would potentially put us in the promotion places.

It wouldn't need a surge to make up 6 points between now and the end of the season.I also think it won't take as many points to finish in the top 6 this year as it has in previous years.

Think that you highlight a few of the problems in your post. Firstly whilst we play them again, we haven't actually beaten any of the top teams so it's not a huge cause for optimism.  

Secondly they also all play each other - which means some will drop points but equally others will definitely gain some, which leaves us still trying to catch teams. 

Thirdly the one week of 9 points analogy doesn't really work either. As that would mean we would need 6 of the 11 teams above us to get 3 or less points to break into the playoffs. I take your point that we may be a lot closer after this run of 3 wins, but even then it isn't in the playoffs. Which shows we are a fair way off. To have so many teams above us pick up so few points is a statistical improbability. It's highly unlikely. Not to mention there is no room for error for us!

And let's say a team keeps pace with us, say 6th to 8th match our 7 or 9 point week and 9th to 11th drop behind us. That would mean we would need another week where we win all three and 6th to 8th all get three points or less. Again, the likelihood isn't great. We are already playing long odds.

Btw I should stress I am not throwing in the towel. We should fight with every last breath in our bodies, play for the badge and the shirt, make sure 100% is given, every player can look the fans in the eye and say they did their best and have their all. From TM to the kit man everyone should be doing their damnedest to get us promoted.  Every effort should be made. it's still pssoble. However, I fear it is far from probable. 

 

 

 

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Think that you highlight a few of the problems in your post. Firstly whilst we play them again, we haven't actually beaten any of the top teams so it's not a huge cause for optimism.  

Secondly they also all play each other - which means some will drop points but equally others will definitely gain some, which leaves us still trying to catch teams. 

Thirdly the one week of 9 points analogy doesn't really work either. As that would mean we would need 6 of the 11 teams above us to get 3 or less points to break into the playoffs. I take your point that we may be a lot closer after this run of 3 wins, but even then it isn't in the playoffs. Which shows we are a fair way off. To have so many teams above us pick up so few points is a statistical improbability. It's highly unlikely. Not to mention there is no room for error for us!

And let's say a team keeps pace with us, say 6th to 8th match our 7 or 9 point week and 9th to 11th drop behind us. That would mean we would need another week where we win all three and 6th to 8th all get three points or less. Again, the likelihood isn't great. We are already playing long odds.

Btw I should stress I am not throwing in the towel. We should fight with every last breath in our bodies, play for the badge and the shirt, make sure 100% is given, every player can look the fans in the eye and say they did their best and have their all. From TM to the kit man everyone should be doing their damnedest to get us promoted.  Every effort should be made. it's still pssoble. However, I fear it is far from probable. 

 

 

 

 

Mate all the team's haven't even played each other once ,some teams are still finding their way.No need for surges at this point as most teams are being inconsistent, Bristol beat us then go away to Rotherham and lose.

A few week ago we had dropped down the table ,some on here were talking about relegation as a possibility we then went on an unbeaten run and were one win away from being in the top 6.

Our next 5 are all winnable.

As for not beating any of the top 6 above us it's obviously true but from watching the games we have competed well in the majority of them,Reading and Swansea being the exceptions.Im confident wins will come against the teams above us.

Just think talk of the manager being sacked when only 6 points away is too much, fair enough if we were showing nothing in our matches.I would have sacked him last season as I didn't see any progress but I do now and he should be given the next 5 games imo and see where we are then leading into the January window

 

 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

14 hours ago, Blue blood said:

The 6 points as an argument is highly optimistic on so many levels. First off we've not managed to catch up those points ever before. Under Bowyer or TM we've never caught up those only points ever. Doesn't matter how good or poor the team we haven't broken the glass ceiling of playoffs. 

Secondly it massively assumes none of the teams above us are going to get points. It assumes those in the playoffs are obliging to not pick up any points, nor the teams from 7th to 11th. Optimistic in the extreme. At present even if we do our part of the bargain (unlikely) we need at least 5 teams above us to do worse. 

Then there's assuming there's no other team just below us that doesn't do better than us too. Although at least with that one it's in our hands. 

Sure teams do make a surge but whilst I hope I'm wrong I really don't think it will be us. 

With all the teams above us to play again - and with them all playing each other - 6 point recovery is easily achievable IF we can reverse our current fortunes playing teams above us in the table.

At the moment my glass is half full - we are playing some excellent attacking football at times - and even when getting beaten we have played on the whole well (just let down by individual mistakes, either defensively or not taking chances). 

I am more confident of the impact Travis will make on his return than I am Dack. But even if Dack takes a while to become fully effective - there is no better player to have on the bench when you need to score against a packed defence.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Look if we were 6th and 6 points clear of 7th, nobody would be saying everything was cut and dried. 6 points is absolutely nothing at this stage of the season. 

Some have nailed their views to the mast so much about the team and Mowbray, that I do wonder what they would say if/when we get in the play off places. I imagine something like "we should have been in earlier" "It doesn't matter unless we are there at the end". The goalposts will always move and "progression" will be downplayed accordingly.

Don't @ me 😆

[Stonesrick]

1 hour ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Dack is due back around the start of the new year. He's only just started full training with the rest of the team. He's bound to gave a few niggles after a year out. 

Not sure Shearer was ever only 'half the player' after his injuries. It must have been his good half because he was still incredible. 

Before his 2 knee injuries, Shearer had blistering pace - just watch the 7-1 thrashing of Norwich.

He did lose that bit of pace when he returned but he was such a top class player that he was able to adapt his game and play more with his back to goal, bringing others into play, bullying defenders, whilst still having the ability to score every type of goal.

Still think there are people outside of Lancashire and Newcastle who do not realise what a world class player he was.

 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 minutes ago, Stonesrick said:

Before his 2 knee injuries, Shearer had blistering pace - just watch the 7-1 thrashing of Norwich.

He did lose that bit of pace when he returned but he was such a top class player that he was able to adapt his game and play more with his back to goal, bringing others into play, bullying defenders, whilst still having the ability to score every type of goal.

Still think there are people outside of Lancashire and Newcastle who do not realise what a world class player he was.

 

 

He lost half a yard of pace in his time at Rovers. The knee injury robbed him of that acceleration he had when he came at first. When he had that bad injury at Newcastle he lost another yard.