Rovers v Rotherham Utd. (h) Wed. 16th Dec. 7.45pm

[Mattyblue]

He lost his raw pace after his first injury in 92/93, but he was still quick enough.

Shearer’s first season at Newcastle in 96/97 he was as good as ever, he then had another bad injury, it was after that when he became markedly slower - all credit to him that he then adapted his game into more of a target man, but kept on scoring.

[roversfan99]

41 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Look if we were 6th and 6 points clear of 7th, nobody would be saying everything was cut and dried. 6 points is absolutely nothing at this stage of the season. 

Some have nailed their views to the mast so much about the team and Mowbray, that I do wonder what they would say if/when we get in the play off places. I imagine something like "we should have been in earlier" "It doesn't matter unless we are there at the end". The goalposts will always move and "progression" will be downplayed accordingly.

Don't @ me 😆

Your desperation to paint the fanbase as overly negative is impeding on any logic. The consistent argument against Mowbray is that he has has never gotten us into that top 6 reckoning, so now to imply that if we did finally manage to push on that next step, that people would then adapt their criticisms to downplay that is totally without evidence.

I may be wrong but you have in the past been critical of the manager so I am unsure why you are now resorting to painting any criticism to be unreasonable, backed up with made up hypothetical arguments.

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Your desperation to paint the fanbase as overly negative is impeding on any logic. The consistent argument against Mowbray is that he has has never gotten us into that top 6 reckoning, so now to imply that if we did finally manage to push on that next step, that people would then adapt their criticisms to downplay that is totally without evidence.

I may be wrong but you have in the past been critical of the manager so I am unsure why you are now resorting to painting any criticism to be unreasonable, backed up with made up hypothetical arguments.

Because we are clearly playing better this season than previous years. Plus we have Dack and Travis to come back. 

I'm not painting "the fanbase" as anything, so please stop with this strawman nonsense hyperbole. It's a select few, but we are all adults here, entitled to our own viewpoints. 

[islander200]

No Trybull tomorrow night.Wouldnt be surprised to see Downing get a start 

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, Stonesrick said:

Before his 2 knee injuries, Shearer had blistering pace - just watch the 7-1 thrashing of Norwich.

He did lose that bit of pace when he returned but he was such a top class player that he was able to adapt his game and play more with his back to goal, bringing others into play, bullying defenders, whilst still having the ability to score every type of goal.

Still think there are people outside of Lancashire and Newcastle who do not realise what a world class player he was.

 

There aren't many who realise that!

Sadly, i think Dack's injury will have robbed him of at least half a yard of pace he couldn't afford to lose.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Mercer

[Blue blood]

2 hours ago, islander200 said:

Mate all the team's haven't even played each other once ,some teams are still finding their way.No need for surges at this point as most teams are being inconsistent, Bristol beat us then go away to Rotherham and lose.

A few week ago we had dropped down the table ,some on here were talking about relegation as a possibility we then went on an unbeaten run and were one win away from being in the top 6.

Our next 5 are all winnable.

As for not beating any of the top 6 above us it's obviously true but from watching the games we have competed well in the majority of them,Reading and Swansea being the exceptions.Im confident wins will come against the teams above us.

Just think talk of the manager being sacked when only 6 points away is too much, fair enough if we were showing nothing in our matches.I would have sacked him last season as I didn't see any progress but I do now and he should be given the next 5 games imo and see where we are then leading into the January window

 

 

I appreciate the way you disagree well when we have different opinions. 

I can see what you are saying - end of last season was probably the best time for a clean break. I think where we differ is how much progress we see. 

You cite the good performances Vs top teams but we have also played pretty badly (and got results) Vs weaker teams. So on performance levels I'm not really sure that they are that much of an endorsement of TM and his ability and the chance to make up the points. 

We disagree with how big a gap 6 points is. I see it as large and my last post stated why, you see it as not that big. I guess there's an element of glass half full/half empty although I feel quite strongly that it's not much of an only!

Perhaps it's a context thing. Under a different manager perhaps I would be confident we could make it back up whereas under TM i don't. Perhaps it's also situational as in its 3 years in, we bottle top 6 each year, we can't beat the teams above us etc. Maybe it's the fact there are so many teams above us. Rambling a bit but basically I think it's the situation around the 6 points as well as the actual points difference that makes me less optimistic. 

 

 

[roversfan99]

I am not even convinced that it is a case of bottling it when we get near the play offs, I am just not convinced that the current manager is capable (with this squad) of picking up points with the consistency of a top 6 team.

The style of play and performance levels is perhaps not as straightforward as it seems, not until it does actually start producing the results that many have understandably taken hope from that it will. I definitely have been entertained at times this season and that of course is exciting, I am not advocating a complete swing and resorting to direct football (not that I am pompous enough to consider that any less acceptable, we just dont have the personnel) but equally I do wonder if similar results with a further strengthened side may show that our current style isnt the most effective in its current form.

Maybe the current style leaves us exposed on transition and highlights defensive flaws that still havent been resolved? Maybe there is a naivety against the better teams which is leaving us exposed? The best teams tend to maximise set pieces for example, ours are absolutely dismal with often ineffective routines and a manager who admitted last week that he doesnt get involved and leaves it to his staff. So I am unconvinced if the results will come and indeed maybe even though we think we are "playing better," it is style over substance and deceiving us that we "deserve" and will get more than is actually true.

[K-Hod]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Look if we were 6th and 6 points clear of 7th, nobody would be saying everything was cut and dried. 6 points is absolutely nothing at this stage of the season. 

Some have nailed their views to the mast so much about the team and Mowbray, that I do wonder what they would say if/when we get in the play off places. I imagine something like "we should have been in earlier" "It doesn't matter unless we are there at the end". The goalposts will always move and "progression" will be downplayed accordingly.

Don't @ me 😆

I know you said not to @ you (always appreciate that phrase), but it’s legit the same the other way around too.

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I know you said not to @ you (always appreciate that phrase), but it’s legit the same the other way around too.

I was clearly joking

[islander200]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I am not even convinced that it is a case of bottling it when we get near the play offs, I am just not convinced that the current manager is capable (with this squad) of picking up points with the consistency of a top 6 team.

The style of play and performance levels is perhaps not as straightforward as it seems, not until it does actually start producing the results that many have understandably taken hope from that it will. I definitely have been entertained at times this season and that of course is exciting, I am not advocating a complete swing and resorting to direct football (not that I am pompous enough to consider that any less acceptable, we just dont have the personnel) but equally I do wonder if similar results with a further strengthened side may show that our current style isnt the most effective in its current form.

Maybe the current style leaves us exposed on transition and highlights defensive flaws that still havent been resolved? Maybe there is a naivety against the better teams which is leaving us exposed? The best teams tend to maximise set pieces for example, ours are absolutely dismal with often ineffective routines and a manager who admitted last week that he doesnt get involved and leaves it to his staff. So I am unconvinced if the results will come and indeed maybe even though we think we are "playing better," it is style over substance and deceiving us that we "deserve" and will get more than is actually true.

I enjoy the new style as I got beyond bored with the sideways and backwards passing from seasons gone by and I do think attacking is playing to our strengths and when he tried to play a more defensive game results were inconsistent aswell.

Although I thought on paper our recruitment was good in the summer, he should have brought in a left back with similar attributes to Nyambe and Nyambe should start every game he is available.Douglas has been poor so far and doesn't have the engine to get back when caught up the field.

I don't think we are far away though and I wouldn't be thinking of sacking Mowbray yet.

[islander200]

3 hours ago, Blue blood said:

I appreciate the way you disagree well when we have different opinions. 

I can see what you are saying - end of last season was probably the best time for a clean break. I think where we differ is how much progress we see. 

You cite the good performances Vs top teams but we have also played pretty badly (and got results) Vs weaker teams. So on performance levels I'm not really sure that they are that much of an endorsement of TM and his ability and the chance to make up the points. 

We disagree with how big a gap 6 points is. I see it as large and my last post stated why, you see it as not that big. I guess there's an element of glass half full/half empty although I feel quite strongly that it's not much of an only!

Perhaps it's a context thing. Under a different manager perhaps I would be confident we could make it back up whereas under TM i don't. Perhaps it's also situational as in its 3 years in, we bottle top 6 each year, we can't beat the teams above us etc. Maybe it's the fact there are so many teams above us. Rambling a bit but basically I think it's the situation around the 6 points as well as the actual points difference that makes me less optimistic. 

 

 

Yes I do appreciate where you and others are coming from but I have belief that I didn't have last season.I think there are more positives than negatives to be taken so far.

Hopefully Watford beat Brentford tonight and QPR can get a homw win v stoke

[JHRover]

It really boils down to me to whether you are happy or content with being 12th in this division and sat above Barnsley on GD and below Luton.

Bear in mind of course the financial disparity between us and those clubs, the losses we incur in comparison to those clubs and the fact that those two just avoided League One (by each beating us).

Barnsley have also had to endure a managerial change this season.

As far as I'm concerned that represents underachievement here. It makes an absolute mockery of Mowbray's slow build when Jones can turn Luton from relegation to being above us most of the season so far in a few short months and Barnsley can lose managers yet still cobble together as many points. That's before we look at personnel and expenditure.

Those who celebrate our 'style' of play perhaps need to watch DVDs of West Brom in 2009 when they finished bottom whilst receiving plaudits for their style. I dont want to be that sort of club getting pats on the back from neutrals and opposition fans whilst not upsetting or troubling anyone.

Mowbray had 3 years at Boro and 3 years here with everything stacked in his favour. Good clubs, autonomy, little pressure, healthy backing and has failed to smash the ceiling of 6th.

My view is that it is because he isn't pragmatic nor ruthless enough to do what is needed to get there. 

The x number of points off the top 6 is just meaningless. We've had this now for 3 years. We are just as near or far off being in 19th place. Its mid table. I want promotion. 

I'm already very disappointed in Mowbray declaring his ambition to be 'around' the top 6 in May. I think that is pathetic and nothing more than covering his own back for the inevitable mid table finish (which will be 'around' the top 6 until the final few games). 

Even if he doesn't think we are capable of promotion he should be saying we are. I think he is just communicating with India and trying to buy himself more time at it now.

Compare to others who set their ambitions for the top - promotion - and don't tolerate weakness or lowering of expectations.

[phili]

For me as this is the 3rd year of the normal Venky cycle we have to go up this year. The summer will be a horror story of cutting funding, reducing squad and wages and selling anyone who is sellable, as happened last time under bowyer inorder to comply with FFP in 2022.

I just don't think TM can do it this year, without the injuries he may have had a chance but i really do worry now.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

4 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

He lost his raw pace after his first injury in 92/93, but he was still quick enough.

Shearer’s first season at Newcastle in 96/97 he was as good as ever, he then had another bad injury, it was after that when he became markedly slower - all credit to him that he then adapted his game into more of a target man, but kept on scoring.

I often wonder how good he would have been without that first injury - he was genuinely quick prior to injury, but lost an edge of pace - obviously still a great player

[@roverseas]

Its been said a few times already but we need to win this one.  Hoping we can see the best out of Douglas before its too late, I feel he is still trying to get rid of the cobwebs.  However patiences is running thin.

Big week this! Come on TONY!

 

 

[bazza]

I've said this before. It's no use sacking Mowbray.

We need a club that is owned by people who understand the modern game, decide on a goal to achieve and a way to play to achieve that goal; similar to Southampton, Wolves, Swansea. Only then can you realistically decide on the staff at the club including the coaches and the manager.

Changing our manager right now would probably be like leaping from frying pan to fire.

[simongarnerisgod]

2 hours ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

I often wonder how good he would have been without that first injury - he was genuinely quick prior to injury, but lost an edge of pace - obviously still a great player

i think he would have become one of the greatest strikers ever,when he had that extra burst pace he  was the complete centre forward,that first injury took a yard off him,though he modified his game,he was`nt quite the fireball he was before,incidentally i always thought the sheff wed centre forward david hirst was equally as good as shearer but suffered even worse injuries and never fulfilled his potential,he would have been some player that lad

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

45 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

i think he would have become one of the greatest strikers ever,when he had that extra burst pace he  was the complete centre forward,that first injury took a yard off him,though he modified his game,he was`nt quite the fireball he was before,incidentally i always thought the sheff wed centre forward david hirst was equally as good as shearer but suffered even worse injuries and never fulfilled his potential,he would have been some player that lad

Yes - Hurst was really good. Imagine an England team with injury free Hurst and Shearer up front with Warhurst running the midfield (what could have been, but for injuries)

[Uddersfelt Blue]

Off topic but nice to see Brentford concede a penalty and have a man sent off at Watford. Identical to the penalty incident when Lenihan was sent off. Funny that Brentford weren’t too happy with the officials. Karma

[G Somerset Rover]

5 minutes ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

Off topic but nice to see Brentford concede a penalty and have a man sent off at Watford. Identical to the penalty incident when Lenihan was sent off. Funny that Brentford weren’t too happy with the officials. Karma

Spoke too soon! Penalty of their own now and 1-1. Toney now two goals ahead of Arma. Arma will be out to beat his Bristol City away shot record tomorrow now! 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Decent results for us tonight. Need to capitalise now

Just read an interesting statto there, Chelsea haven't bet a top 10 team PL team in 2021. 

I think a win tomorrow and it's set up for a "breakout" win for us against Stoke. 

 

[jim mk2]

Rotherham are a decent outfit and will provide a stern test tomorrow. I can't see a win to be honest. 1-1. 

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

i think he would have become one of the greatest strikers ever,when he had that extra burst pace he  was the complete centre forward,that first injury took a yard off him,though he modified his game,he was`nt quite the fireball he was before,incidentally i always thought the sheff wed centre forward david hirst was equally as good as shearer but suffered even worse injuries and never fulfilled his potential,he would have been some player that lad

Yes he was another in the big Al mode a true English center forward, strong and direct but could do a bit of everything.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

32 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Decent results for us tonight. Need to capitalise now

Just read an interesting statto there, Chelsea haven't bet a top 10 team PL team in 2021. 

I think a win tomorrow and it's set up for a "breakout" win for us against Stoke. 

 

Nobody's beaten anybody in 2021 yet mate.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Nobody's beaten anybody in 2021 yet mate.

2020 it must be then. Or maybe it was just fake news on the internet