Ben Marshall - Under The Cosh Podcast #89

[Oldgregg86]

30 minutes ago, Butty said:

Rovers talk begins 30 minutes in. He talks about snakes and maggots but seemimgly doesn’t realise the biggest snake was the man he came out and backed. Interesting to hear from a player who was here through that truly awful time at the club though, even if it is Orr. 

Yeah I find the irony sickening that he says fans don’t understand, then backs kean, when fans clearly have a far greater understanding of what’s happening than he did. Looks like when glen said shebby made a Substitution when he was there was true . Absolutely shocking what is clearly still going on at ewood. Shocked and disgusted at Gael givet to I loved him as a player. Wonder who the midfielder was who ran less than the keeper ? Any ideas 

I never believed for one minute professional players would deliberately get relegated. That has made me look at the game differently.  Truly disgusted 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Oldgregg86

[Butty]

1 minute ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Yeah I find the irony sickening that he says fans don’t understand, then backs kean, when fans clearly have a far greater understanding of what’s happening than he did. Looks like when glen said shebby made a Substitution when he was there was true . Absolutely shocking what is clearly still going on at ewood. Shocked and disgusted at Gael givet to I loved him as a player. Wonder who the midfielder was who ran less than the keeper ? Any ideas 

Petrovic? And on Givet, Orr says he refused to play but did he not have a heart problem at the time? 

[Oldgregg86]

1 minute ago, Butty said:

Petrovic? And on Givet, Orr says he refused to play but did he not have a heart problem at the time? 

I’m not sure but nobody came out of that podcast well. Anyone want to claim the cricket ball throw . I thought the snowball would never be beaten 😂

[Polky]

I thought he came across quite well during both episodes. Very disappointed to hear about Givet refusing to play and Orr having to play through an injury and receiving abuse from the supporters.

I remember an image of Orr being taken stood in front of the Rovers badge laughing at the clubs motto.

I found it very ironic that he spent the last few minutes of the episodes calling agents ‘snakes’ and ‘maggots’ whilst also saying that Rovers fans didn’t have a clue what was going on at the club 😂

Edited June 6, 2022 by BRFC_Polky

[AllRoverAsia]

Just finished watching Part 2. Some interesting insight but he ignored or just didn't know how this all started when the real maggots were infesting the Ewood corridors.

That has to be noted in any analysis of Kean and ignoring it is trying to change fact

The Giver story I believe.

It kind of gave a different perspective on that infamous photo.

I think that his experience as an agent has greatly affected, understandably, his view of the professional football world and I think he right in his opinion of it.

Shebby quite rightly got a battering. He was the tit I said he was on here when he showed up.

Orr was personable and has the gift of the gab and came out of that show ok but as always we hear just one side of the story. His.

Doesn't get away from the fact he was pretty useless as a player at Rovers as was the embarrassment called Brown.

I like him a bit more than I did a couple of hours ago

Edited June 7, 2022 by AllRoverAsia

[SuperBrfc]

1 hour ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Wonder who the midfielder was who ran less than the keeper ? Any ideas 

Nzonzi.

He was a disgrace in that Swansea game. I remember being left fuming at his display that day. The number of times he lost the ball and then petulantly threw his arms up in the air and then just ambled back. Not even jog back. It was a terrible attitude in a game we needed to win.

I'm sure it's Nzonzi he is talking about there.

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, SuperBrfc said:

Nzonzi.

He was a disgrace in that Swansea game. I remember being left fuming at his display that day. The number of times he lost the ball and then petulantly threw his arms up in the air and then just ambled back. Not even jog back. It was a terrible attitude in a game we needed to win.

I'm sure it's Nzonzi he is talking about there.

I believe that too.

[chaddyrovers]

part 1 (29) Bradley Orr Part 1 | I Got Sent Off Monday, And Sent To Jail Friday - YouTube

 

 

part 2 (29) Blackburn Fans Despise Me. Bradley Orr Pt 2. Corkies, Snakes and Maggots - YouTube

 

[Mattyblue]

Fair play to any of you able to stomach a listen.

[JBiz]

“It started with the fans” a direct quote from Bradley about the toxic problems at the club….

”My performance level was good”

Comes across as history told from the view of a villain.

 

 

[Miller11]

I like the way he just casually drops in how he signed a lucrative 4 year deal immediately after we were relegated, as if it’s in anyway normal but also acknowledging it’s completely ludicrous.

[BG1492]

Just as the podcast is finishing, Brown asks him who the midfielder was in which he replies Nzonzi.

 

[tomphil]

Anyone be kind enough to do a brief breakdown of the juicy bits for those of us who simply cannot listen to this cretin ?

[LeftWinger]

9 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

Nzonzi.

He was a disgrace in that Swansea game. I remember being left fuming at his display that day. The number of times he lost the ball and then petulantly threw his arms up in the air and then just ambled back. Not even jog back. It was a terrible attitude in a game we needed to win.

I'm sure it's Nzonzi he is talking about there.

I never rated N'Zonzi. It used to drive me mad when he'd throw his arms around after losing the ball and not bother running back. I'm amazed that he went on to have the career he did and play for the clubs he did.

[SuperBrfc]

56 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Anyone be kind enough to do a brief breakdown of the juicy bits for those of us who simply cannot listen to this cretin ?

I'm planning on making a detailed post later this afternoon. There are a number of key revelations from him that paint a picture.

One thing to say is, Glen was telling the truth about the Shebby sub story. Shebby tried to influence team selection by demanding Orr be taken out of the starting 11. Berg listened, allegedly, and would pick Henley, but Appleton refused to listen to Shebby.

[Tricky]

12 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Shocked and disgusted at Gael givet to I loved him as a player. 

It was to Kean though so it's fine. 

[EgyptianPete]

16 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

Nzonzi.

He was a disgrace in that Swansea game. I remember being left fuming at his display that day. The number of times he lost the ball and then petulantly threw his arms up in the air and then just ambled back. Not even jog back. It was a terrible attitude in a game we needed to win.

I'm sure it's Nzonzi he is talking about there.

I think he mentioned Nzonzi right at the end of the vlog (closing credits) gives me a  totally different opinion of Bradley Orr, played when injured when others tossed it off, good footballer or not at least he tried. Would love to know who in that relegation team gave up as he mentioned there were a few who just gave up, I'm sure some of our esteemed well known supporters on here may know but for whatever reason dont spill the beans.

[EgyptianPete]

Change the headline to Bradley Orr podcast, should get lots more interest.

[SuperBrfc]

Just got round to listening to part 2 of Orr's interview. I found it a good listen and see Orr in a better light than I did before. There are many interesting things that were disclosed.

For those who haven't listened to it or don't want to listen to him speak, here is a breakdown of what was said. Apologies, as this is going to be a long post. Bear with me. The main points are as follows:

1) Orr defended Kean because he felt certain players had downed tools and that Kean was taking all of the bullets for them, without the fans knowing what was really going on with the players in the dressing room. Orr believed certain players were told that getting relegated would make it easier for them to leave Rovers than it would be if they were to stay up, so they stopped trying. This incensed him as we were in a relegation battle.

He cited Swansea away as an example. Givet refused to play at LB in a crunch game and said he wanted to play at CB only. Orr, whose season was deemed to be over with an Achilles injury in the previous game, had to play by way of injections. He continued to do this for the last few games of the season.

Givet did not play in the Swansea game at all, not even at CB as he initially said he wanted to. Orr mentioned a midfielder who had pitiful running stats for that game with only 50m of high intensity running, when 2000m was the norm for Premier League midfielders. That player was Nzonzi. Orr stressed that the fans treated Givet as this warrior, but they didn't know what he had done at a key time in the season.

During that Wigan game, which ended in relegation, Orr said the atmosphere was toxic, the level of abuse and hate was something that he had never experienced before or after and that it was brewing up to explode at full time.

When the full time whistle went, it did go off and somebody threw a Corky cricket ball at Kean's head from way back in the stands, missing him by inches. If it had connected, the situation would have been horrendous. That was the final straw for Orr who decided to do that infamous Sky interview defending Kean. His intention was to let the fans know about the maggot players who had given up and he felt it was unfair that Kean was taking all of the flak.

2) During a pre season tour in 2012, newly appointed Shebby arrived. He immediately made a beeline for the senior pro's table in the hotel/canteen. The table consisted of Dunny, MGP, Dann, Robbo, Orr etc. Shebby tried to shit stir, get info out of the players, blame Kean for the club's problems and was trying to get the senior players to agree with him about Kean. This got Orr's back up and he began to see Shebby as a snake and a maggot who couldn't be trusted. Orr began warning Eric Black and other staff to watch out for Shebby.

3) Still in Ireland, during Pre season 2012, Orr came down to breakfast one day in the team hotel to find the lads surrounding an iPhone, laughing their heads off. They were laughing at a clip of Shebby mocking and insulting Dunny and Morten infront of a group of fans. Probably the King George's Hall debacle?

Orr says he was furious about this, as in his words, "this maggot was taking the piss out of our mates, two solid professionals, infront of a bunch of fans just to get them onside".

Shebby was due to arrive at the team hotel later that day as there was a match that evening. Orr arranged a meeting with all of the senior lads, 15 strong, to let Shebby know what he did was unacceptable. Kean was fine with this taking place. When Shebby arrived, Orr let rip at him telling him exactly what he thought with expletives thrown in, with the other senior pros looking on.

Shebby was told he was not allowed to get on the team bus, he could not come anywhere the dressing room or the training ground and that he was not wanted. Shebby was bemused and simply responded with "But how do I get to the game?". It was clear that Orr strongly disliked Shebby and the feeling was mutual after that outburst.

4) On the night before Charlton away, in September 2012, Kean walked in to a room and told all of the squad that he couldn't do it anymore. He said he had a family to look after and that they were struggling with everything that was going on. Kean resigned and Eric Black was placed in temporary charge.

5) The first thing Black did at training was gather all of the senior pros together, including Orr, and ask them to give Shebby another chance by allowing him to come to the training ground.

Black felt that Shebby wasn't as bad as the players thought he was. He told the group Shebby was really keen to get involved and mend things with them. Orr was not happy with this and told Black to do whatever he wants but warned him by saying "Shebby is a snake who will stab you in the back". Days later, Berg was appointed and Black was out on his ear, just as Orr warned him about.

6) It's a Thursday, two days in to Berg's reign. Berg is working on defensive shape in training. After 30 seconds he calls out Orr's poor positioning, takes him out of the session and has him replaced by Adam Henley.

7) On the same Thursday, after training, Orr gets a phone call from an agent saying "you're not playing on Saturday, are you?". Orr asks "how do you know". The agent replies with "I've just been told by Alan Nixon from the Daily Mirror, there's going to be a piece written about you in Saturday's paper".

😎😎  😎 Two days later, on the Saturday morning we are away at Crystal Palace, Orr's dad rings him and asks him to grab a copy of the Daily Mirror and to read what it says. Orr does as his dad says and finds an article titled "Blackburn Rovers to get rid of bad apple, Orr". (Ignore emojis above, added by mistake, won't delete for some reason).

9) Orr confronts Berg with the article and says "I knew about this on Thursday (via the agent who rang him), you're telling me it's your decision not to play me, you're a liar, this is coming from above because you don't know me to say I'm a bad apple, you've only been here for two days".

Orr says to Berg "You're a Premier League winner, a European Cup winner, multiple trophy winner, be a man and tell me that you can't pick me. I can take it. Just say it. You're being dictated to from above (I.e Shebby).

Orr says Berg couldn't look him in the eye and kept saying "no, it's my decision" in a snotty way.

He was on the bench for that Palace game and the following two games against Huddersfield and Birmingham, while Henley started both. Orr had lost his head by the Brum game and demanded he be let out on loan. He then went to Ipswich on a loan deal.

10) Orr claims he knew Berg was lying because Appleton phoned him up as soon as he was appointed at Rovers and said "I don't care what this Shebby Singh is saying, he's telling me I can't pick you, but I'm calling you back from your loan (at Ipswich). He called him back and put Orr straight back into the team.

11) The Peterborough game at Ewood was the final straw for Orr, where he says he got untold abuse and almost had a fight with a fan outside the ground. He knew he could never win the fans over that day and that he had to leave the club. During that game, the booing got so bad according to him, that he swore at the fans to shut up.

12) Interestingly, he mentions how Gary Bowyer told him "this is a disgrace how you're being treated". Also, for months Bowyer, as reserve team manager, had been telling Orr how he should be playing.

However, when Bowyer got the Rovers first team job he said to Orr "look, what it is, I've been told I can't play you". Orr accepted this and said let me go abroad on loan and that's how his loan to the MLS happened.

There's a lot to talk about there and I'll talk about some of it in another post.

[SuperBrfc]

I mean, where to begin with the information from Orr?

Let's start with team selection.

If he is to be believed, that's three managers that were told not to pick Orr in the starting 11 by Shebby. Berg, Appleton and Bowyer.

Berg and Bowyer, allegedly, listened to what they were told and refused to pick him. Appleton did not listen, instead calling Orr back from Ipswich and starting him in games from that point on

We've heard about the Shebby 'sub by text' story from Glen before. We've also heard how the team sheet, in the early days, used to be sent to the bling man for approval, who would send it back with amendments if he didn't like it.

All this has got me thinking..the constant use of Gally on the right wing, over and over, Johnson as a false nine that one time. Surely not?

[Oldgregg86]

23 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

I mean, where to begin with the information from Orr?

Let's start with team selection.

If he is to be believed, that's three managers that were told not to pick Orr in the starting 11 by Shebby. Berg, Appleton and Bowyer.

Berg and Bowyer, allegedly, listened to what they were told and refused to pick him. Appleton did not listen, instead calling Orr back from Ipswich and starting him in games from that point on

We've heard about the Shebby 'sub by text' story from Glen before. We've also heard how the team sheet, in the early days, used to be sent to the bling man for approval, who would send it back with amendments if he didn't like it.

All this has got me thinking..the constant use of Gally on the right wing, over and over, Johnson as a false nine that one time. Surely not?

Surly not indeed.

nothing added up then and not a lot adds up now. 
 

in a few years time I expect more stories like this to keep emerging .

if you look at the way tony acted in those last six months and what he said on departing it does make you wonder how bad things still possibly are to the point I’m questioning has anything really changed since the kean days. 
 

It really is a sad state of affairs down there. Is any club in Britain ran as poorly ? No wonder season tickets sales are dropping . How are you supposed to believe in and support a club that the players refuse to play, want to be relegated, no one knows whose doing what from team selection to picking managers . The whole Lowe benson thing now. Something is still dark and wrong down there and I won’t be convinced otherwise . 

[AllRoverAsia]

27 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Surly not indeed.

nothing added up then and not a lot adds up now. 
 

in a few years time I expect more stories like this to keep emerging .

if you look at the way tony acted in those last six months and what he said on departing it does make you wonder how bad things still possibly are to the point I’m questioning has anything really changed since the kean days. 
 

It really is a sad state of affairs down there. Is any club in Britain ran as poorly ? No wonder season tickets sales are dropping . How are you supposed to believe in and support a club that the players refuse to play, want to be relegated, no one knows whose doing what from team selection to picking managers . The whole Lowe benson thing now. Something is still dark and wrong down there and I won’t be convinced otherwise . 

Players who had been told that a relegation would get them out of the club.

That had to be from someone in authority within the club or the rats running the club.

Orr's mentor Kean was still picking these players. I wonder if Orr made this views known then

Sounds like a planned relegation strategy to me.

Edited June 7, 2022 by AllRoverAsia

[SuperBrfc]

1 hour ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Surly not indeed.

nothing added up then and not a lot adds up now. 
 

in a few years time I expect more stories like this to keep emerging .

if you look at the way tony acted in those last six months and what he said on departing it does make you wonder how bad things still possibly are to the point I’m questioning has anything really changed since the kean days. 
 

It really is a sad state of affairs down there. Is any club in Britain ran as poorly ? No wonder season tickets sales are dropping . How are you supposed to believe in and support a club that the players refuse to play, want to be relegated, no one knows whose doing what from team selection to picking managers . The whole Lowe benson thing now. Something is still dark and wrong down there and I won’t be convinced otherwise . 

I'm with you on this, something is still not right at the club for me.

When we look at this shambles of a recruitment process currently going on, it looks like Mowbray was helping to paper over huge cracks. Mowbray walking out, which I don't think they were expecting, has seemingly led to them falling apart and not knowing what to do now.

On the back of that we have to ask, has anything really changed from the Kean days?

I said it more than once last season when we kept on seeing bizarre lineups: "has blingy picked this team?". It was said half jokingly, but now I'm not so sure.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say we are currently THE worst run club in all four divisions. If not number one for some, we're certainly in the top three, I'd say.

[SuperBrfc]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Players who had been told that a relegation would get them out of the club.

That had to be from someone in authority within the club or the rats running the club.

Orr's mentor Kean was still picking these players. I wonder if Orr made this views known then

Sounds like a planned relegation strategy to me.

The game away at Tottenham was an absolute stinker in 2012. Must win and not even a shot on goal. Forget that, there was no intention to attack all game. A disgrace.

Also, wasn't there a wink in that game from Dunny as he was being substituted? It could have been innocent and related to anything, but I'd still like to know what that was all about.

[all you need is duff]

Many players when looking back at their career have a fairly sketchy memory of games they played but Orr was very flexible with the truth.

The Givet Swansea game wasn’t 1-0, it was 3-0. Remember as well that Givet denied refusing to play when it was reported at the time. https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2012/apr/18/blackburn-gael-givet-refuse-play
 
The Crystal Palace game under Berg was 2-0, not 5-1 as Orr said. We also weren’t top of the league at the time as he claimed we were.

Orr also made out that we had just been on an eight game unbeaten run before that Peterborough game.

The Shebby stuff is terrible to hear but my opinion of Orr and Kean didn’t really go up whilst listening to the podcast