Rovers vs Owls Boxing Day 3pm through a Socially Distanced Looking Glass

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

2 minutes ago, West Yorks Rover said:

I get the impression that Tony Mowbray is not the sort of manager who listens or takes advice from

any of his coaches.

He's now a hindrance. Standing still is akin to going backwards. Imagine being so thick that you can't spot and learn from your own mistakes and change your approach accordingly. This is what we're dealing with here, a thick old man in self protection mode. 

[G Somerset Rover]

1 minute ago, simongarnerisgod said:

according to various sources,he does`nt listen to his assistant venus,so you may well be correct

Was it Graham who said on the podcast that Venus and Mowbray have two completely contrasting opinions on how football should be played. Can’t exactly help can it and we all know Mowbray is a stubborn old goat.

[matt83]

1 minute ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

He's now a hindrance. Standing still is akin to going backwards. Imagine being so thick that you can't spot and learn from your own mistakes and change your approach accordingly. This is what we're dealing with here, a thick old man in self protection mode. 

What’s the saying it’s a foolish man who doesn’t learn from the mistakes of others but it’s a bloody idiot who doesn’t learn from his own mistakes. 

[superniko]

- Worst I’ve seen Elliott play for us, first time though so no concerns here.

- No more Douglas please, return him in January if we can. 

- Nice touches from Dack, if he starts CM then I imagine we lose our high press a little (feels like this has been gone for weeks mind you)

- Great goal from Rothwell, he’s a mainstay in the middle now.

- Holtby was brilliant in the first 5/10 weeks of the season but he’s really looked slow and average since then. Slows us down too much, perhaps should only start as our holding midfielder. E.g. did we need Johnson holding in this game?

- Nothing to add about Mowbray that hasn’t already been said. I think those suggesting he can progress us to the next level need to open their eyes. This was our best chance for many years now and we’re sat mid-table half way through. 

[blondie]

Possession statistics look good on paper, but it's little lads football.No aggression, physicality, or good old fashioned Ale House football when needed.It's almost impossible to have so much possession with so few shuts on target.

[simongarnerisgod]

fed up of saying it but the only way we`re getting rid of mowbray is if he decides to resign or retire,both of them long shots,the only other way is if he suddenly keels over and passes to the other side,another long shot,we are in for some ****** boring seasons my fellow roverites😳

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

9 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

Surely I'm right here.  If not how so?

You might be, but it won't change anything. We'll go on a good run then a bad run .... ad infinitum. 

[The Mighty Chaffinch]

Douglas, Johnson, Holtby and Gallagher were all abysmal today. You can’t have 4 of your 11 players off their games so badly against a Pulis team. I’m also getting fed up with Arma’s general play around the area. Far too many shots with his left foot that a randomly placed snowman would save comfortably. His first touch lets him down far too often as well, the chance in stoppage time being a prime example. As for Mowbray...I’m done. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, simongarnerisgod said:

the only other way is if he suddenly keels over and passes to the other side

I think I'll know how he feels. It's like being  in purgatory watching his team. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

fed up of saying it but the only way we`re getting rid of mowbray is if he decides to resign or retire,both of them long shots,the only other way is if he suddenly keels over and passes to the other side,another long shot,we are in for some ****** boring seasons my fellow roverites😳

How many do you think would still be turning up to watch this rubbish if it wasn't BCD ? I reckon gates would be down to about 8 or 9,000 by now. Well on the way to the Chicken Chokers end game - shrink the fan base to a point were they can shut up shop without too much of a fuss.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[simongarnerisgod]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Chaffinch said:

Douglas, Johnson, Holtby and Gallagher were all abysmal today. You can’t have 4 of your 11 players off their games so badly against a Pulis team. I’m also getting fed up with Arma’s general play around the area. Far too many shots with his left foot that a randomly placed snowman would save comfortably. His first touch lets him down far too often as well, the chance in stoppage time being a prime example. As for Mowbray...I’m done. 

would anyone be tempted to cash in on armstrong in january,especially with dack back,bradley might not have the pace of armstrong but he`s got 100 times the amount of footballing brain power

[Bigdoggsteel]

7 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

would anyone be tempted to cash in on armstrong in january,especially with dack back,bradley might not have the pace of armstrong but he`s got 100 times the amount of footballing brain power

If someone offered £17 million for Armstrong,I would take their hand off. Finished tap ins when we steamrolled a few pants teams at the beginning, can't do it when it matters against decent defences. Doesnt link the play up, far too greedy with pointless shots and lacks that bit of cuteness in key areas to bring it round the keeper or finish when there is more to be done that a curler or arrow into the bottom corner. I would wager another manager would have him out from the centre and back on the left. We need a target man to get the ball into the box more directly to. 

We have too many midgets on our team. Gallagher, well what can you say. Brereton is no target man, but at least he has some strengths

Edited December 26, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 minute ago, simongarnerisgod said:

would anyone be tempted to cash in on armstrong in january,especially with dack back,bradley might not have the pace of armstrong but he`s got 100 times the amount of footballing brain power

You don't sell your leading scorer unless you can replace with better. Dack is not a better striker. 

[roversfan99]

A load of shite yet again. People are so obsessed with possession stats as if they directly correlate to entertainment but we are awful to watch aside from the couple of times when we have swollen the goals for column with beatings usually against 10 men. Its side to side passing, no penetration, teams even without the ball tend to control games as Stoke also did last week more than we are doing because we are often devoid of ideas. Even today I have seen a lot of snobbery towards Sheffield Wednesdays style but it was a horrible watch from us too, we didnt have a shot in the first half and of course we did have a spell in the second where we had a few chances but that was only because they had a lead to defend.

Mowbrays inability to fix the defence continues and is particularly concentrated at LB. Douglas has been a shit signing, and he also compounded that by re-signing Bell so we have no credible alternative, whoever out of those 2 plays will cause us problems. Ayala I am still to be convinced by too, the clean sheet record is simply not good enough.

In midfield, Holtby is a myth. He never contributes anything and he personifies the team perfectly, pedestrian and unproductive. Rothwell's goal was superb, he is what he is, slightly more productive than Holtby with occasional brilliance. Johnson was incredibly sloppy in front of the defence, Downing surely has to be considered for starts.

Armstrong too often having to play out wide, hes a striker and although hes hit a bit of a lean spell, at this level hes a bloody good one, a bit of overreacting to him and rubbish about cashing in on him etc, so close to hit the post, a few decent runs and always our attacking threat. You take his goals out of our side and we will struggle to replace them. Gallagher a waste of space, Elliott surprisingly quiet. Great to see Dack back and he was involved like hed never been away, so crisp and purposeful with his passing, Brereton has been out for a fraction of the time but I thought he was the one that looks like he has missed a year, he looked like the old Brereton but hopefully that is ring rust.

You cant argue with the points tally, we are mid table fodder and will continue to stagnate under the current manager. The season feels as good as over in December.

[alcd]

3 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

trybull not even on bench,guess that good performance against stoke annoyed tony🙄,what a manager of men,hoik one of your best performers off and then drop him completely for the next game!!!

Not easy to assess whether Trybull has thrown his toys out of the pram or Mowbray is blanking him for throwing a hissy fit on being unjustifiably taken off against Stoke. Fortunately the centre midfield issue should be resolved when hopefully Travis returns. Then Trybull becomes surplus to requirements. 

[simongarnerisgod]

1 minute ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

You don't sell your leading scorer unless you can replace with better. Dack is not a better striker. 

im`e advocating selling armstrong while his stock is still high and sign someone who can actually keep his head up and see his team mates,definately the time to cash in imo

[matt83]

9 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

How many do you think would still be turning up to watch this rubbish if it wasn't BCD ? I reckon gates would be down to about 8 or 9,000 by now. Well on the way to the Chicken Chokers end game - shrink the fan base to a point were they can shut up shop without too much of a fuss.

It will be interesting to see when things return to normal. I think after the novelty of the first 5 or so home games has worn off we could even be down as low as 7-8,000 if swag and Mowbray are still ruling the roost. But they’ll both say ain’t us governor it’s covid that’s done it. Perfect crime. Plus can’t do the usual trick of count absentee season higher holders when there’s only 2,500 of them. 

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

If someone offered £17 million for Armstrong,I would take their hand off. Finished tap ins when we steamrolled a few pants teams at the beginning, can't do it when it matters against decent defences. Doesnt link the play up, far too greedy with pointless shots and lacks that bit of cuteness in key areas to bring it round the keeper or finish when there is more to be done that a curler or arrow into the bottom corner. I would wager another manager would have him out from the centre and back on the left. We need a target man to get the ball into the box more directly to. 

Why do we NEED a target man? Armstrong is not in the best of form which happens to all strikers but hes a bloody effective Championship striker, the second top scorer in the league and if you take him out of this side you take away a massive chunk of any attacking threat. He has also been so much more effective since he moved central at the start of the year.

[bigbrandjohn]

5 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

would anyone be tempted to cash in on armstrong in january,especially with dack back,bradley might not have the pace of armstrong but he`s got 100 times the amount of footballing brain power

I was thinking about this. We have a terrific squad on paper. We are playing people out of position to accommodate everyone. Actually we have been doing that since Graham was around.

Sell Armstrong for 20 million before his sell by date expires, and use the money to fix the defence.  Technically we have wingers in Chapman and Downing so play Big Ben up front supported by Brereton, and Dack in midfield. 
 

Plus plenty of youngsters waiting in the wings. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, simongarnerisgod said:

im`e advocating selling armstrong while his stock is still high and sign someone who can actually keep his head up and see his team mates,definately the time to cash in imo

Only if this new striker will score the goals AA scores. Our other strikers are hardly pulling up trees. 

[roversfan99]

Armstrong's sell by date?! Hes a bloody 23 year old striker who has scored 15 this season, 27 this year, and has never gone more than 3 games without a goal.

Hes not playing very well at the moment, hes hit a bit of a dry spell (1 in 6 after 5 in 5) but people are massively overreacting if they think he is anything but key to this team. We are too reliant on him. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

What am I reading. We have a manager who can't get a tune out of BB and SG as far as scoring goals goes but people want to sell the only player who can score. We'd be near the bottom without AA's goals. 

[Stuart]

17 minutes ago, superniko said:

- Worst I’ve seen Elliott play for us, first time though so no concerns here.

- No more Douglas please, return him in January if we can. 

- Nice touches from Dack, if he starts CM then I imagine we lose our high press a little (feels like this has been gone for weeks mind you)

- Great goal from Rothwell, he’s a mainstay in the middle now.

- Holtby was brilliant in the first 5/10 weeks of the season but he’s really looked slow and average since then. Slows us down too much, perhaps should only start as our holding midfielder. E.g. did we need Johnson holding in this game?

- Nothing to add about Mowbray that hasn’t already been said. I think those suggesting he can progress us to the next level need to open their eyes. This was our best chance for many years now and we’re sat mid-table half way through. 

Some musings in response:

- Very much hope that Elliott isn’t the latest player to have the excitement coached out of him

- Mowbray is more likely to stick with Douglas than send him back - if not belligerence then just ignorancd

- Holtby another player who is looking less happy the longer he plays for Mowbray

- Mowbray has a Plan A and nothing else. It’s a template of “hardworking”, “honest” players who do as they are told.

- Players going forward as a threat are at a premium. If your first and last name begins with ‘A’ then you get some freedom. If not the you stick in your round hole - even if you are a square peg.

- Armstrong has become a one trick pony. Head down with the ball and shoot, regardless of whether you are accurate, whether there is a real opportunity or whether there is a team mate in a better position. His shot-to-goal ratio is masked by his goals scored.

- Downing on the left is the wrong answer to the ongoing problem. He can no longer beat a man and fire a cross in. Which means if he can’t quickly see a pass he has to turn and cut inside but is then playing a backward pass.

Not a lot has changed in all the time we have been in this division under Mowbray. He has had a longer run in this division than any other manager (Wycombe and Rotherham managers both promoted from league one last season) and he will be here until he walks.

BCD football will not even bring any (unlikely) pressure from fans so we will be having this same debate week after week, March after match. Is it any wonder people are losing interest? Where is the imperative due to the size of our debt? The pressure that comes from managers having to get results? The personal pride of a noble manager who walked away from Coventry?

[roversfan99]

I wish we had other players whose goal to shot ratio was masked by being the 2nd top scorer in the league.

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Why do we NEED a target man? Armstrong is not in the best of form which happens to all strikers but hes a bloody effective Championship striker, the second top scorer in the league and if you take him out of this side you take away a massive chunk of any attacking threat. He has also been so much more effective since he moved central at the start of the year.

We clearly need a target man because we are far too predictable. Teams know we won't get it in the box and if we do, we will typically lose the aerial battle.

Armstrong has been very lucky. His goals to shots ratio shows how many chances he needs to score. Ya, he has goals, against teams we hammered mostly and penalties. Not doing enough for me after that. We can do better for a figure like 17 million. Maybe he would be better in a front 2. Doesn't lead the line well enough at all for me. You can talk about his goals all you like, I know what I see. As I mentioned , the vast majority of those goals were penalties and in 3 games where we flat track bullied the opposition. 

Come back to me if Armstrong does it consistently for 1 whole season, at least.