Mowbrays Successor

[imy9]

25 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

19/20 - 63pts, 66 GF, 63 GA

18/19 - 60pts, 64 GF, 69 GA

Some improvement, although marginal. 

I may add minus Dack for a large chunk of the season.

[Sparks Rover]

1 minute ago, imy9 said:

I may add minus Dack for a large chunk of the season.

But we scored more goals this season in the first 10 games without him than we have scored for a long time...

Dack isn't going to get us up, a good defense will

[imy9]

2 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

But we scored more goals this season in the first 10 games without him than we have scored for a long time...

Dack isn't going to get us up, a good defense will

Dack does more than just score goals, he has a nack of easing off the pressure for us by holding the ball up and spraying upteen passes (correctly) for our team. For all his goal scoring prowess, holding the ball up is not a strength of Arma.

[Lucimo]

19 minutes ago, Gav said:

I think the losses column is more telling than GA column to be honest Sparks.

I understand why some want Mowbray sacked, if you can't beat Sheff Weds at home on the back of the season they've had you're going to struggle, we were extremely lucky against Rotherham also, it doesn't look good for our chances of a play off spot.

I said he needs time in this league, his players need time to adapt to this league and he's now had that time and despite gradual improvements he's not going to take this side to the next level.

All that said, we can't compete with the likes of Watford, Swansea, Norwich, Brentford or Bournemouth, all clubs enjoying the trappings of recent flirts with the Premiership, in Brentford's case massive transfer fees, big wages, refreshing the squad year on year, so that leaves 1 spot on that basis.

Reading this thread the alternatives to Mowbray are either pie in the sky or perennial failures, for now I think I'd stick and hope for the best.

 

Stick with our current perennial failure then. I'd rather twist myself. As someone above alluded to, many don't dislike TM they just see that he's done all he can. The problem is we say 'give him time' 3/4 times a season. He's had his time, he's done. I like the bloke, but it's time for a change. This is a good squad and I'm sure there are good managers out there who would lick their lips at the opportunity to work with these players. 

[Sparks Rover]

31 minutes ago, imy9 said:

Dack does more than just score goals, he has a nack of easing off the pressure for us by holding the ball up and spraying upteen passes (correctly) for our team. For all his goal scoring prowess, holding the ball up is not a strength of Arma.

We let in 65 and 64 the last 2 seasons with him, ironically this season looks to be our best defensive start and he has not played.

This doesn't support your argument 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

It's not just the number of goals we conceded but the types of goals they are. 50% of them are the sort you see on your local playing fields. Markers not going with their men, players turning their backs on incoming balls, ball watching at other times etc. It's not changed in 3 seasons.

[Bigdoggsteel]

10 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

We let in 65 and 64 the last 2 seasons with him, ironically this season looks to be our best defensive start and he has not played.

This doesn't support your argument 

Our best defensive start in 3 seasons? Wow, you wouldn't think it 

It's not just about doing what the poster responding to you says he does ,Dack is also really tenacious tackling from the front and crucially when games are decided on moments ,him sticking a goal or playing a killer through pass that leads to a goal , kill games off, meaning less opposition goals. 

The Bristol City game, we were well on top. We score early there and maybe Bristol dont score. There is only so much pressure you can soak up when you're missing chance after chance. Not saying our defence is good by any means, but Dack will improve us in many ,many ways. 

[dingles staying down 4ever]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

With worse players. 

Correction.....mainly the same players bar the keeper. Nymabe, Lenihan, Wharton and Williams were all here.

[Sparks Rover]

29 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

It's not just about doing what the poster responding to you says he does ,Dack is also really tenacious tackling from the front and crucially when games are decided on moments ,him sticking a goal or playing a killer through pass that leads to a goal , kill games off, meaning less opposition goals. 

Thanks for the football lesson. From the guy slagging the leagues top scorer off seconds before he bags one....😄

Dack is irrelevant and a distraction.  We need the base of the midfield and defence sorting out.  I'm confident we will score the requisite goals without Dack. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

19 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Thanks for the football lesson. From the guy slagging the leagues top scorer off seconds before he bags one....😄

Dack is irrelevant and a distraction.  We need the base of the midfield and defence sorting out.  I'm confident we will score the requisite goals without Dack. 

Wasn't slagging him off at all. Are you ok hun? You seem to be making a lot of deluded posts these days, well more than usual anyway. 

PS - your posts about Dack are nonsensical. Some cheek to make up that I was slagging Armstrong then 🤣🤣 You wouldn't know the base of a midfield if it hit you square in the forehead 

[Sparks Rover]

25 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Wasn't slagging him off at all. Are you ok hun? You seem to be making a lot of deluded posts these days, well more than usual anyway. 

PS - your posts about Dack are nonsensical. Some cheek to make up that I was slagging Armstrong then 🤣🤣 You wouldn't know the base of a midfield if it hit you square in the forehead 

Not to mention your earlier assessment of Cipre on the other thread....🥺

[Gav]

3 hours ago, Lucimo said:

Stick with our current perennial failure then. I'd rather twist myself. As someone above alluded to, many don't dislike TM they just see that he's done all he can. The problem is we say 'give him time' 3/4 times a season. He's had his time, he's done. I like the bloke, but it's time for a change. This is a good squad and I'm sure there are good managers out there who would lick their lips at the opportunity to work with these players. 

Or inherit someone else's, who'd be a chairman eh?

Notts Forest twisted, Sheff Weds twisted, Middleborough twisted several times, Bolton twisted, Stoke twisted, Sunderland twisted, all failed, some very badly.

Be careful what you wish for, another Owen Coyle could be just around the corner.

 

 

 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

2 minutes ago, Gav said:

Or inherit someone else's, who'd be a chairman eh?

Notts Forest twisted, Sheff Weds twisted, Middleborough twisted several times, Bolton twisted, Stoke twisted, Sunderland twisted, all failed, some very badly.

Be careful what you wish for, another Owen Coyle could be just around the corner.

 

 

 

Clubs twist and succeed too. Just not ones with Venky's at the helm. 

[Ewood Ace]

4 minutes ago, Gav said:

Or inherit someone else's, who'd be a chairman eh?

Notts Forest twisted, Sheff Weds twisted, Middleborough twisted several times, Bolton twisted, Stoke twisted, Sunderland twisted, all failed, some very badly.

Be careful what you wish for, another Owen Coyle could be just around the corner.

Villa twisted won promotion, Leeds twisted won promotion, West Brom twisted won promotion, Wolves twisted won promotion, Cardiff twisted and won promotion in Warnock's first full season, Huddersfield twisted and won promotion in Wagner's first full season.  

But of course little old Blackburn Rovers should know their place and all hail the Messiah Mowbray and the continuous plod along in mid table of the second tier.

[Gav]

50 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Villa twisted won promotion, Leeds twisted won promotion, West Brom twisted won promotion, Wolves twisted won promotion, Cardiff twisted and won promotion in Warnock's first full season, Huddersfield twisted and won promotion in Wagner's first full season.  

But of course little old Blackburn Rovers should know their place and all hail the Messiah Mowbray and the continuous plod along in mid table of the second tier.

Go and look at how much Villa spent, how much Leeds spent, Wolves had the super agent and world class players to pick from, West Brom had millions, Cardiff had Warnock and are a championship side, Huddersfield are also a championship side.

I can give you 17 teams that don’t fit your sunny uplands narrative year on year, of which we are one.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Gav

[Ewood Ace]

55 minutes ago, Gav said:

Go and look at how much Villa spent, how much Leeds spent, Wolves had the super agent and world class players to pick from, West Brom had millions, Cardiff had Warnock, we ain’t getting Warnock and Huddersfield are a championship side.

I can give you 17 teams that don’t fit your sunny uplands narrative year on year, of which we are one.

Leeds didn't spend massive amounts of money on players, what they did go out and spend big money on was a top class manager who improves players and that took them from mid table in the Championship to the top flight.

West Brom lost 45 goals from the previous season and they didn't spend crazy amounts in fact I they ended up in net profit for last seasons transfers. Zohore was their biggest signing and he didn't play much. Also Mowbray hasn't spent insignificant sums over the last few years and he has also not lost any of his key players. Not many managers in the Championship can say that they get money to strengthen every window and are never forced to sell key players.

Huddersfield still managed to spend 2 seasons in the Premiership if we could manage to achieve that then the future of our club would look much brighter. Villa didn't spend much when they got promoted what they did well was utilise the loan market well whereas you'd have to say Mowbray's record in the loan market has been rather more mixed. Warnock at Cardiff just showed what a manager with a bit of nous can do for you at this level, Mowbray doesn't have that nous.

I could also give you plenty more teams who have changed managers and achieved success but they wouldn't fit your narrative that we should should be happy to plod along in no mans land with the Messiah Mowbray.

Also I'm not sure when we last brought a manager in with the aim of being promoted? The last few have all been brought into try and keep us up. Souness I supposed would be the last time we did that and if I remember correctly that worked out quite well. That was the problem the last time we had a decent side when Bowyer was in charge we kept a mediocre mid table manager rather than bring in someone who could take us up, sadly it seems like history is repeating itself again.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Ewood Ace

[martonrover]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Or inherit someone else's, who'd be a chairman eh?

Notts Forest twisted, Sheff Weds twisted, Middleborough twisted several times, Bolton twisted, Stoke twisted, Sunderland twisted, all failed, some very badly.

Be careful what you wish for, another Owen Coyle could be just around the corner.

 

 

 

I would wager that Forest will be ahead of us this time next season.

Boro already ahead of us, (and we could've had Warnock and are capable of attracting similar).

Stoke already ahead of us.

The problems at Bolton, Sheffield Wednesday and Sunderland are more about off field issues.

The problem is that if we don't twist within the next six months, it's almost certain that we will either continue to stagnate or go backwards.

We badly need a spark to regenerate interest in the club.

Without a change the matchday crowds are likely to be very poor when spectators are allowed to return.

[Gav]

28 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Leeds didn't spend massive amounts of money on players, what they did go out and spend big money on was a top class manager who improves players and that took them from mid table in the Championship to the top flight.

Leeds have spent over £40m on players in the championship since Mowbray has been in charge of us, massive amounts,  which puts our mediocre outlay into some perspective. 

West Brom had pots of cash from the Premiership and Udders and Cardiff are below us in the table, championship sides.

The grass isn't always greener sadly...

 

[Gav]

35 minutes ago, martonrover said:

I would wager that Forest will be ahead of us this time next season.

Did I read recently that Hughton had only won 4 out of 17 games? He could well be sacked shorty? 

Why do think they'll be ahead of us with a record like that?

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Gav said:

Leeds have spent over £40m on players in the championship since Mowbray has been in charge of us, massive amounts,  which puts our mediocre outlay into some perspective. 

West Brom had pots of cash from the Premiership and Udders and Cardiff are below us in the table, championship sides.

The grass isn't always greener sadly...

Bielsa got Leeds out of the Championship spending £10 Million in his 2 seasons in charge whilst selling £33 Million worth of talent. Mowbray in his 3 seasons the Championship for us has sold just £3 Million worth of talent and has spent £15 Million on strikers alone.

Leeds United - Transfers 19/20 | Transfermarkt

Leeds United - Transfers 18/19 | Transfermarkt

Huddersfield just getting into the Premiership for two season was a fantastic achievement and if we could manage to do that the clubs long term financial future would be much more secure. And given that our owners are considerably richer than the Huddersfield owners was you'd hope that we would spend more than they did in order to stay there longer.

[Gav]

11 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Bielsa got Leeds out of the Championship spending £10 Million in his 2 seasons in charge whilst selling £33 Million worth of talent. Mowbray in his 3 seasons the Championship for us has sold just £3 Million worth of talent and has spent £15 Million 

Like I said, Leeds spent over £40m getting out of the championship, Mowbray has spent peanuts in comparison. 

You can cherry pick all you like, but the facts remain the same. 
 

 

[martonrover]

19 minutes ago, Gav said:

Did I read recently that Hughton had only won 4 out of 17 games? He could well be sacked shorty? 

Why do think they'll be ahead of us with a record like that?

......because I believe that Hughton is a better manager than Mowbray and will sort it out.

He has achieved the first objective of getting Forest out of the relegation zone.

[chaddyrovers]

18 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Bielsa got Leeds out of the Championship spending £10 Million in his 2 seasons in charge whilst selling £33 Million worth of talent. Mowbray in his 3 seasons the Championship for us has sold just £3 Million worth of talent and has spent £15 Million on strikers alone.

Leeds United - Transfers 19/20 | Transfermarkt

Leeds United - Transfers 18/19 | Transfermarkt

Huddersfield just getting into the Premiership for two season was a fantastic achievement and if we could manage to do that the clubs long term financial future would be much more secure. And given that our owners are considerably richer than the Huddersfield owners was you'd hope that we would spend more than they did in order to stay there longer.

What did Leeds spend in wage bill compare to us? 

Also didnt Leeds have to sell players to meet FFP rule? 

[Ewood Ace]

4 minutes ago, Gav said:

Like I said, Leeds spent over £40m getting out of the championship, Mowbray has spent peanuts in comparison. 

You can cherry pick all you like, but the facts remain the same. 

In the three season before Leeds got into the Premiership they spent £35 Million on players (in the two years under Bielsa it was just £10 Million) but how did they manage to spend that amount because in the same 3 years they received £50 Million in transfer fees. So in those 3 years they were actually £15 Million in profit in terms of transfer fees. 

If Mowbray wanted to he could have cashed in on a Dack or Armstrong in recent years for £15-20 Million and he could have then spent even more money on top of the £17 Million that he has already spent. But he has decided not to do that and has been very fortunate that he has not had to sell any key players and has also always been given funds to strengthen what he already has. Of clubs that have been in the Championship for the last 3 years with us there aren't many that have a higher net spend us.

 

[Gav]

19 minutes ago, martonrover said:

......because I believe that Hughton is a better manager than Mowbray and will sort it out.

He has achieved the first objective of getting Forest out of the relegation zone.

His record thus far doesn’t support your faith in Hughton, but time will tell marton, you could be right.

2 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

In the three season before Leeds got into the Premiership they spent £35 Million on players 

 

Again you’re cherry picking, Mowbray has been with us 4+ seasons - Leeds have spent well over £40m in that time, we’re not even close EA.