Birmingham - Away, Sat 2nd Jan

[USABlue]

18 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

This ref is a gobshite. Clearly biased 

Clear and obvious.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 minutes ago, USABlue said:

Clear and obvious.

 

But he didn't give them what could have been a pen just before our first goal.

[Feed the Yak]

3 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

But he didn't give them what could have been a pen just before our first goal.

Nevertheless I've never seen such an incompetent display in the 2 games I've seen him referee. Shambles. 

[47er]

27 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Midfield three is an interesting situation now. 

We've got Travis who is a definite starter when fully fit. Then we've got Rothwell, Holtby, Trybull and Johnson who have all played well and badly in patches. Rothwell is probably the pick of them.

Then we've got Davenport who just played really well. And then we have Dack and Elliott who if we we want both to play probably one needs to go in the midfield three. Then there's Downing, Buckley who have hardly played. So that's *ten* players for three spots, although Johnson could be in defence for a while if we don't sign a defender, and one of Dack/Elliott is likely to play up front. Pretty daft situation to have so many mids and not enough defenders... I haven't even counted JRC or Evans... (!!!)

Anyway for me to make the 433 really work it is all about having a midfield three that covers *a lot* of ground and can use the ball well. With only three in the middle you have to be able to press really well and retain the ball.

To work through them - Johnson and Trybull are too static imo and get picked off. Holtby was brilliant and covering the yards well at the start of season but has dropped off significantly - seems to have a fitness issue. Dack you want up front for his goals, and Elliott is a forward not a midfielder, as he lacks the required presence and positional discipline to win the ball back. Buckley and Downing also lack that presence you need in a three.

So for me probably we should go into the next league game with a midfield of Trav, Davenport, Rothwell. I think when Holtby gets his fitness back up again he could become a big player for us also.

I would drop Gallagher up front for Dack and also put Elliott on the bench.

My suspicion though is if we sign a defender Johnson will shoo-in to midfield and I think the deal we have with Liverpool for Elliott is he has to play so he can't be dropped. Could be wrong about that, but it feels that way.

So out best team, for me, front to back :

                      Kaminski

Nyambe.   Lenihan.   Kipre?   Bell. 

    Travis.     Davenport.   Rothwell 

      Brereton.   Dack.   Armstrong. 

Subs : Pears, Johnson, Douglas, Holtby, Trybull, Buckley, Elliott, Dolan, Gallagher

 

Agree with a lot of what you say but (!)  

*Elliott is the best player on the pitch

* you've shown what a plethora of mid-fielders we have but look at the defence---Nyambe is probably on his way, Lenihan

is injury-prone and gaff-prone, Kipre doesn't play for us and Bell is awful.

Damning indictment of a manager who's into his 5th year with us.

*We would be so open down that left side

* Elliott, Dolan and Rothwell are all excellent but can't all be in the side

[47er]

8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

But he didn't give them what could have been a pen just before our first goal.

I didn't think that was a pen. The manager has gone over the top on this incident to deflect criticism from his side's failings.

The guy threw himself when he's lost the ball.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, 47er said:

I didn't think that was a pen. The manager has gone over the top on this incident to deflect criticism from his side's failings.

The guy threw himself when he's lost the ball.

It happens all the time these days, and lots of the times it's a pen. If I could do one thing in football I'd clamp down on divers. Review the incident later and if it's a dive or even looks like a dive - 3 match suspension. You'd stop it in a month.

[Colt Seavers]

43 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

 

So out best team, for me, front to back :

                      Kaminski

Nyambe.   Lenihan.   Kipre?   Bell. 

    Travis.     Davenport.   Rothwell 

      Brereton.   Dack.   Armstrong. 

 

 

 

Think I would prefer:

                  Kaminski

Nyambe   Lenihan   ?   Bell

          Travis     Davenport

 Rothwell   Dack  Brereton

            Armstrong

 

[davulsukur]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

Midfield three is an interesting situation now. 

We've got Travis who is a definite starter when fully fit. Then we've got Rothwell, Holtby, Trybull and Johnson who have all played well and badly in patches. Rothwell is probably the pick of them.

Then we've got Davenport who just played really well. And then we have Dack and Elliott who if we we want both to play probably one needs to go in the midfield three. Then there's Downing, Buckley who have hardly played. So that's *ten* players for three spots, although Johnson could be in defence for a while if we don't sign a defender, and one of Dack/Elliott is likely to play up front. Pretty daft situation to have so many mids and not enough defenders... I haven't even counted JRC or Evans... (!!!)

Anyway for me to make the 433 really work it is all about having a midfield three that covers *a lot* of ground and can use the ball well. With only three in the middle you have to be able to press really well and retain the ball.

To work through them - Johnson and Trybull are too static imo and get picked off. Holtby was brilliant and covering the yards well at the start of season but has dropped off significantly - seems to have a fitness issue. Dack you want up front for his goals, and Elliott is a forward not a midfielder, as he lacks the required presence and positional discipline to win the ball back. Buckley and Downing also lack that presence you need in a three.

So for me probably we should go into the next league game with a midfield of Trav, Davenport, Rothwell. I think when Holtby gets his fitness back up again he could become a big player for us also.

I would drop Gallagher up front for Dack and also put Elliott on the bench.

My suspicion though is if we sign a defender Johnson will shoo-in to midfield and I think the deal we have with Liverpool for Elliott is he has to play so he can't be dropped. Could be wrong about that, but it feels that way.

So out best team, for me, front to back :

                      Kaminski

Nyambe.   Lenihan.   Kipre?   Bell. 

    Travis.     Davenport.   Rothwell 

      Brereton.   Dack.   Armstrong. 

Subs : Pears, Johnson, Douglas, Holtby, Trybull, Buckley, Elliott, Dolan, Gallagher

 

Its a head scratcher alright. I don't think you're far off with that, its possible that 4-3-3 doesn't suit our squad very well. I'm not sure if Dack or Armstrong will prosper too well in those positions. Armstrong has a history of poor performances from wide areas and I don't think Dack has ever been to successful as a "false  9" or whatever it is.

In my opinion, if we are playing a 4-3-3, the full backs are key. Ours, Nyambe included, aren't good enough. Nyambe is superb at defending and he is great in 1 v 1 situations but he isn't the best going forward. Bell isn't particularly good at attacking or defending. Douglas was brought in because of his crossing ability but his defending is poor. So we would need serious improvement on those positions.

The 3 in midfield is also a problem. I think the one in the middle needs to be a holding midfielder but one with some good distribution. I think Trybull would be a good holding mid but his distribution is limited. Downing is never a holding mid in a million years but has great distribution, so its a problem. I'd opt for Trybull as we need the support in the back line to avoid the counter, when the full backs have gone forward.

The other 2 need to be able to contribute to both attack and defence whilst having the athleticism to cover a lot of ground. Box to box, if you like.

Travis is a shoe in for that role and should flourish, I'd opt for Rothwell on the other side as he has a bit of pace and gets back to defend more than he gets credit for. His driving runs can cause problems for the opposition.

The front 3 is another problem. Armstrong needs to play Central, as does Dack but neither can be left out. I'm not sure about Dack as a central forward, all his success has come from playing behind a striker. Brereton has one wide berth sewn up and Elliott probably should have the other being much more suited to a wide place than either Arma or Dack. 

Which leaves Arma central and Dack on the bench, which isn't acceptable.

So with that, we need a reshuffle. Mowbray seems to see Dack as part of midfield 3, so Trybull misses out, Travis moves over and Dack comes in.

--------------Kaminski

Nyambe--Lenihan--Loan--Bell/Doug

----Rothwell---Travis--Dack

------Elliott-----Arma-----Brereton

Travis should cover a lot of ground in front the back 4, Dack and Rothwell should be able to cause some damage, the concern is that Dack might not be as effective being a bit deeper.

This formation also leaves some players without a position. Downing doesn't have much of a role, a sub for either Dack or Rothwell perhaps, same goes for Buckley. Holtby, Johnson and Trybull would all struggle for game time.

Gallagher would only be used as a sub for Arma and never outwide. 

Who'd be a manager, eh?

Edited January 3, 2021 by davulsukur

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Colt Seavers said:

 

Think I would prefer:

                  Kaminski

Nyambe   Lenihan   ?   Bell

          Travis     Davenport

 Rothwell   Dack  Brereton

            Armstrong

 

" ? " used to be the lead singer in " The Mysterians ". He'll be getting on a bit now. " 96 Tears " was a great record though.

[windymiller7]

1 hour ago, Colt Seavers said:

 

Think I would prefer:

                  Kaminski

Nyambe   Lenihan   ?   Bell

          Travis     Davenport

 Rothwell   Dack  Brereton

            Armstrong

 

I like that & think that formation suits our squad best. 

Gives us options to change things about with subs too. Ie Elliot & Dolan for Rothwell & Brereton, Gally for Arma if he needs a break or we want to go more direct. Holtby or Downing could come in for Dacky if need be, Johnson or Trybull for Trav or Davenport etc.

It's just the defence that worries me (no change there then!), we literally have no options atm, other than Douglas for Bell. 🤦‍♂️

[Leonard Venkhater]

In all the circumstances, I am very happy with the win.

I worry what Davenport has done not to deserve a start previously. No idea why TM bothered with a contract for Chapman. Not sure whether Dolan's brilliance is more evident against tired legs. I just don't get the Gallagher situation.

It looks like 3 players have been pitched in before the medical team believed they were ready-Ayala, Williams and possibly Travis?

Despite the confidence boosting goal, Dack still looks a long way off.

Not sure how you fit Arma, Dack and Elliot into the same team.

And yet, the lone market and a steady centre back pairing would make such a difference to this team even after all the recent disappointments.

Love Kaminski!

Edited January 3, 2021 by Leonard Venkhater

[simongarnerisgod]

5 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

In all the circumstances, I am very happy with the win.

I worry what Davenport has done not to deserve a start previously. No idea why TM bothered with a contract for Chapman. Not sure whether Dolan's brilliance is more evident against tired legs. I just don't get the Gallagher situation.

It looks like 3 players have been pitched in before the medical team believed they were ready-Ayala, Williams and possibly Travis?

Despite the confidence boosting goal, Dack still looks a long way off.

Not sure how you fit Arma, Dack and Elliot into the same team.

And yet, the lone market and a steady centre back pairing would make such a difference to this team even after all the recent disappointments.

Love Kaminski!

can only envisage tony is shoehorning in some players out of position because he does`nt want to upset them,it will only get worse when travis and dack are fully match fit,thats the only explanation of his somewhat bizarre decisions,one the bright side we are far to good to get embroiled in a relegation fight and when this season is over he might decide to step down

[@roverseas]

Ecstatic for Dack and so relived that Trav came through that first encounter like he had never been away.  Also very positive mumblings about new recruits for our defensive crisis.  Can we tilt the mojo back on the positive track or is it still papering over the cracks?

 

[joey_big_nose]

3 hours ago, Colt Seavers said:

 

Think I would prefer:

                  Kaminski

Nyambe   Lenihan   ?   Bell

          Travis     Davenport

 Rothwell   Dack  Brereton

            Armstrong

 

I think that's good except Rothwell who I just don't really see as a forward. He's at his best running from deep and central.

Your setup would also be more defensively robust than the 433. But seeing as Mowbray has stuck to the 433 so far I can't really see him changing it.

[Bigdoggsteel]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18982896.karanka-says-birmingham-shown-lack-respect-officials/

Outrageously sulky from Karanka. To be fair to Mowbray, he never goes that much in on the ref, even when they are really bad. Wouldn't give Karanka long there. 

[Parsonblue]

18 hours ago, Stuart said:

To be fair he has something in his ear that needed fishing out or dozed off. Maybe both.

I bet Johnno is delighted to be referred to as “Mowbray’s Analyst”.

I think you'll find that Rachel Hindle is the first team analyst not Damien Johnson.  The team of analysts are at every game - home and away - and producing the stats via their computer programmes for half-time team talks as well as full-time.

[Stuart]

4 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

I think you'll find that Rachel Hindle is the first team analyst not Damien Johnson.  The team of analysts are at every game - home and away - and producing the stats via their computer programmes for half-time team talks as well as full-time.

Thanks for correcting me. Surely TM shouldn’t need anyone to tell him the number of chances we had - particularly when it was such a low number.

I was thinking about you the other day though as you haven’t posted for a while. Good to see you are well.

[Sparks Rover]

41 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

I think you'll find that Rachel Hindle is the first team analyst not Damien Johnson.  The team of analysts are at every game - home and away - and producing the stats via their computer programmes for half-time team talks as well as full-time.

It's a shame none of them pull Mowbray up about his defensive record and put in proper processes to remedy the situation.   

 

[rigger]

3 hours ago, windymiller7 said:

I like that & think that formation suits our squad best. 

Gives us options to change things about with subs too. Ie Elliot & Dolan for Rothwell & Brereton, Gally for Arma if he needs a break or we want to go more direct. Holtby or Downing could come in for Dacky if need be, Johnson or Trybull for Trav or Davenport etc.

It's just the defence that worries me (no change there then!), we literally have no options atm, other than Douglas for Bell. 🤦‍♂️

I would give downing a try at left back, over those two.

[bazza]

Two things surprised me yesterday. Douglas played far better at right back than he does at left back. Rothwell was absolutely awful when he came on. I know he didn't have many minutes but he was shocking.

[USABlue]

9 hours ago, philipl said:

On reflection, Kaminsky's save was stunning.

Loved the fluidity and tenacity of Travis and Davenport- I'd give them a run together with the other midfielders contesting the third spot.

Brilliant goal from Dack but again no indication of how Mowbray sees him fitting in, let alone making the most out of him.

I thought Dolan was fantastic when he came on. It was needing 3 from Brum to stop/disrupt him.

I'd really like Dolan to get more game time.

The level of technical proficiency from Rovers when he and Dack were on the park soared.

Kaminski does not make that save and I think we lose that game.  It seemed to lift the lads a bit.  What can you say about young Dolan.  So full of enthusiasm, running and confidence.  What can you say about 5million Gallagher,.can't trap, pass run with the ball, infuriating.

  That ref needs investigsting.  FA should watch both them games he reffed against us and go see if he has Dingle memorabelia hanging in his house.  To give Trav a yellow then ignore two Brum challenges after that was bewildering.  Never a more biased reffing job have I seen.  3 points, a welcome break for the cup then back at it hopefully with a proper central defender or two that is more sturdy than a carton if eggs.  Course he will tease us by climbing back into contention of a PO spot then another slide to mid table obscurity.

Final thought, firstnhalf I thought we were well on top, should have been far enough ahead to have the game wrapped up.  Then we come out after ToMo's half time team talk and we are terrible, this happens time and time again. What does he say that makes levels drop so often.

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by USABlue

[USABlue]

17 hours ago, rovers11 said:

I don't rate Gally but I don't dislike him. He's always given 100% when I've seen him play but we're not playing to his strengths. He was signed as a replacement for Danny Graham but then we decided to change our playing style which is less suited to how Gally plays. He was much more effective in his first stint here when the focus was more on getting balls out wide and crosses into the box. 

The problem for TM is that Gally should be a bench player but we've spent 5m on him so he has to try and get some value out of him. The price tag is the only reason he's in the team. 

Play him as a central striker and he'd do a lot better...but you can't move one of the best strikers in this league out wide to accommodate Gally centrally. 

Do we cut our losses and put it down as a mistake? Or do we try and keep plugging away and hope he comes good? Reality is he prob only needs a good half a season for his value to go up. 

 

 

 

He has such terrible technical ability that 100% effort is all he can give.  He does huff and puff and work his socks off but I can do that.

Edited January 3, 2021 by USABlue

[USABlue]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Thanks for correcting me. Surely TM shouldn’t need anyone to tell him the number of chances we had - particularly when it was such a low number.

I was thinking about you the other day though as you haven’t posted for a while. Good to see you are well.

Funny that, I was thinking the same thing and was a bit concerned, also glad to see Parsons is OK.

Edited January 3, 2021 by USABlue

[USABlue]

6 hours ago, TheRoversReturn said:

Felt the same about Bennett last year as first a right back and then, horror of all horrors, as our left back. Decent pros who will try their best and do whatever the manager tells them to, happy to be playing. Feels like they're being set up to fail in positions that do not suit them at all, before you know it the fans are on their backs. 

Whatever Gally is, he isn't a winger. Like Elliot was never in a month of Sundays a left back, nor a right back either. 

Cheers, boss!

Yet Mowbray persists with Gally out wide.  He's ruined the lad altogether now, sucked out of him all his confidence.

[tonygreenbank]

51 minutes ago, USABlue said:

He has such terrible technical ability that 100% effort is all he can give.  He does huff and puff and work his socks off but I can do that.

And yet he could have got the Goal of the Season after a brilliant piece of skill; not to mention his helping out with defensive duties when required. He has the talent of that I have no doubt. He’s just lacking that little bit of luck and/or rub of the green. 
I am aware I’m in the minority here!