Forest v Rovers Sat 20 Feb 3pm

[OldEwoodBlue]

Last night before the Sheff Utd game (about Sheff Utd), Souness said....

"conceding goals and not scoring goals is form which gets you relegated"

[Paul Mani]

I wouldn’t be too harsh on Trav. He’s a rhythm type player who needs his legs and engine to get to a point where he can effect games. He’s never been a fantastic footballer and so when his legs get tired he starts looking a bit Richie Smallwood.

Dack is a good footballer and has never had to rely on physical attributes like pace. He will come good again. His influence is starting to grow and I’m seeing him get into those positions in the box again.

The problem here in my opinion is that this group need another voice in the dressing room.

[Mercer]

42 minutes ago, alcd said:

Travis looks like he's muscle-bound. Only a shadow of the player he was 2 years ago. 

I also think Mowbray's words about 'kicking his gran' have gone to his head!

IMO, the lad just needs to concentrate on his football instead of trying to wind up the opposition by constantly needling them (walking into them, giving them a shoulder etc).  Aggression should be channeled the correct way otherwise it can become a needless point and the player loses focus and effectiveness. 

[TimmyJimmy]

I haven't changed my mind, we should shake TM's hand, wish him well and send him on his way. Time for a change, absolutely.

But the guy can't buy a break can he.  We have 5 centre backs on our books Ayala, Williams, Wharton, Lenihan and Nyambe, if you consider him the cover for centre back All of whom are crocked. Thank goodness he brought in loan cover, realistically though they should never have expected game time outside of league cup matches and the like, yet here we are, here he is, two babies at centre back.

TM has built a good squad I think we all agree on that but this injury situation and the others in midfield beggars belief. He's done and continues to do much wrong and sometimes things that are plain incomprehensible but he's really had a dog's luck.

Other managers will do better with the players we've got so time for a change but jeez the guys got bad luck.

On the match, we were unlucky, but you get kicked when you're down, there's been other matches where we've scabbed an undeserved win but yesterday we were unlucky and so was TM, again!!

[bluebruce]

21 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

I haven't changed my mind, we should shake TM's hand, wish him well and send him on his way. Time for a change, absolutely.

But the guy can't buy a break can he.  We have 5 centre backs on our books Ayala, Williams, Wharton, Lenihan and Nyambe, if you consider him the cover for centre back All of whom are crocked. Thank goodness he brought in loan cover, realistically though they should never have expected game time outside of league cup matches and the like, yet here we are, here he is, two babies at centre back.

TM has built a good squad I think we all agree on that but this injury situation and the others in midfield beggars belief. He's done and continues to do much wrong and sometimes things that are plain incomprehensible but he's really had a dog's luck.

Other managers will do better with the players we've got so time for a change but jeez the guys got bad luck.

On the match, we were unlucky, but you get kicked when you're down, there's been other matches where we've scabbed an undeserved win but yesterday we were unlucky and so was TM, again!!

Yeh ok but what's your opinion on Mowbray's luck though?

[Miller11]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

I also think Mowbray's words about 'kicking his gran' have gone to his head!

IMO, the lad just needs to concentrate on his football instead of trying to wind up the opposition by constantly needling them (walking into them, giving them a shoulder etc).  Aggression should be channeled the correct way otherwise it can become a needless point and the player loses focus and effectiveness. 

Couldn’t agree more with this. 

I loved Robbie Savage, but Travis is becoming a budget version of him.

[Blue blood]

@TimmyJimmy outside of Warton I don't think there is much luck involved at all! Lenihen, Williams and Ayala are all injury prone so it's not too surprising that some of them are missing large chunks of the season. Perhaps a tad unfortunate that it is happening all at once, but having three injury prone centre backs was pretty suicidal even before you factor in the intensity of the season due to Covid. 

Similarly with midfield the likes of Evans and Holtby being injured is far from surprising. Johnson looks gassed half the time he plays too and is getting on a bit in football terms. Again, it's not that surprising that our injury prone players have been injured. 

Factor in that every team gets a few injuries in the normal course of a season and the situation looks really bad. But in reality a lot of it is par for the course on top of a shed load of crocks making the situation much worse than it should be. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, alcd said:

Travis looks like he's muscle-bound. Only a shadow of the player he was 2 years ago. 

Kevin Gallagher was commenting on this issue last night on Radio Lancashire. Not just Travis or Rovers, but other players in general. Too much time in the gym and not enough time on the ball was his take on it. More like boxers than footballers.

He also took the piss out of the shorts modern players are wearing. Ok for the beach but for playing football in ?

[Tom]

Hope Gallagher is ok but that injury was a perfect distraction for Mowbray, the comments about fans and Nyambe was linked in the same article under the headline of Gallaghers injuries so anyone commenting negatively would be seen in a bad light.

Personally I think his comments about Nyambe should have been it’s own article such was the nonsense of it 

[TimmyJimmy]

3 hours ago, Blue blood said:

@TimmyJimmy outside of Warton I don't think there is much luck involved at all! Lenihen, Williams and Ayala are all injury prone so it's not too surprising that some of them are missing large chunks of the season. Perhaps a tad unfortunate that it is happening all at once, but having three injury prone centre backs was pretty suicidal even before you factor in the intensity of the season due to Covid. 

Similarly with midfield the likes of Evans and Holtby being injured is far from surprising. Johnson looks gassed half the time he plays too and is getting on a bit in football terms. Again, it's not that surprising that our injury prone players have been injured. 

Factor in that every team gets a few injuries in the normal course of a season and the situation looks really bad. But in reality a lot of it is par for the course on top of a shed load of crocks making the situation much worse than it should be. 

Agree and I 'liked' your post. I'd just say that teams have 5 centre backs precisely to cover the injury prone and the dead and dying. Two positions 5 coverage, as a manager, any manager you'd assume that was enough surely. We just can't seem to catch a break in that department. TM has loaned 2 prospects with good reputations, granted they're babies but not sure what else we could reasonably have expected him to do.

Times up for TM for me, hail fellow well met, but time to move on. I still maintain though he's had a dog's luck with injuries this season.

[4000Holes]

I sincerely hope Gallagher recovers well, he must wonder where he has come to.  Being played out of position week after week is unfair to him and the club.  He must be thinking this is the final straw.

Time as come for Mowbray.  Just go man.

[Blue blood]

4 hours ago, TimmyJimmy said:

Agree and I 'liked' your post. I'd just say that teams have 5 centre backs precisely to cover the injury prone and the dead and dying. Two positions 5 coverage, as a manager, any manager you'd assume that was enough surely. We just can't seem to catch a break in that department. TM has loaned 2 prospects with good reputations, granted they're babies but not sure what else we could reasonably have expected him to do.

Times up for TM for me, hail fellow well met, but time to move on. I still maintain though he's had a dog's luck with injuries this season.

I've said it a few times but the biggest mistake was not signing Bauer. Tosin might be better but Rovers would have been better off having Bauer for multiple seasons than Tosin for one. Also it's very unlikely Warton and Bauer playing in the same team would get long term injuries, far less so than Ayala and Williams say. 

Imo we are still suffering from that mistake but there are still a number of things TM could have done differently. The most obvious is not play 3 at the back including 2 youngsters as that doubles the risk. Very foolish move imo. Another thing he could have done is try loaning to buy someone from the championship / lower leagues with a bit of experience at centre half. With Williams possibly off in the summer it might have been an opportunity to have a trial/preview of his replacement. That's an admittedly ideal scenario but even a punt on a lower league centre back is that really that much riskier than a young centre half with less than 20 games under his belt, none at championship level. And if it works and we brought one in or loan with option to buy there is a lot more chance of us having a longer term benefit to us than a 6 month loan. I guess we could still get one of these guys back on loan next year (if we want them) so not huge benefit but I do wonder if two youth was not spreading the risk in a great way. Also one of TMs better transfers for me was Downing the CB. A different level admittedly but filled in excellently. Maybe that's influencing my view of what could be done. 

On reflection our general defensive policy hasn't been great - crocks and loans and was hard to rectify ln January. It's the culmination of years of mismanaging the defence. Had we played it a bit smarter at any point or got in more defensive cover of adequate quality and consistency earlier we wouldn't be in this pickle or struggling as much with so many injuries. 

 

[Bbrovers2288]

43 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

I've said it a few times but the biggest mistake was not signing Bauer. Tosin might be better but Rovers would have been better off having Bauer for multiple seasons than Tosin for one. Also it's very unlikely Warton and Bauer playing in the same team would get long term injuries, far less so than Ayala and Williams say. 

Imo we are still suffering from that mistake but there are still a number of things TM could have done differently. The most obvious is not play 3 at the back including 2 youngsters as that doubles the risk. Very foolish move imo. Another thing he could have done is try loaning to buy someone from the championship / lower leagues with a bit of experience at centre half. With Williams possibly off in the summer it might have been an opportunity to have a trial/preview of his replacement. That's an admittedly ideal scenario but even a punt on a lower league centre back is that really that much riskier than a young centre half with less than 20 games under his belt, none at championship level. And if it works and we brought one in or loan with option to buy there is a lot more chance of us having a longer term benefit to us than a 6 month loan. I guess we could still get one of these guys back on loan next year (if we want them) so not huge benefit but I do wonder if two youth was not spreading the risk in a great way. Also one of TMs better transfers for me was Downing the CB. A different level admittedly but filled in excellently. Maybe that's influencing my view of what could be done. 

On reflection our general defensive policy hasn't been great - crocks and loans and was hard to rectify ln January. It's the culmination of years of mismanaging the defence. Had we played it a bit smarter at any point or got in more defensive cover of adequate quality and consistency earlier we wouldn't be in this pickle or struggling as much with so many injuries. 

 

Quite possibly. I remember thinking bowyers biggest mistake was not perm signing David Jones when we needed that type of player in the middle. Got the poor Williamson instead and a talented team - Rhodes, king, cairney, gestede etc were let down by midfield partnership of Williamson and lowe. Jones moved to Burnley and secured promotion 

[Blue blood]

12 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Quite possibly. I remember thinking bowyers biggest mistake was not perm signing David Jones when we needed that type of player in the middle. Got the poor Williamson instead and a talented team - Rhodes, king, cairney, gestede etc were let down by midfield partnership of Williamson and lowe. Jones moved to Burnley and secured promotion 

Yes that's another good shout. Surprising isn't it how it's the non spectacular signings in both cases that make or break the team. One overlooked area (cm for Bowyer defence for TM) and it undoes all the good work elsewhere. 

 

[JPTSwindon]

My issue with TM is the constant changing of players, formation, tactics etc. This is why the team isn’t clicking, making errors that lead to the goals conceded and have lost the instinct / confidence to score. In a break of play in the 2nd half they were showing one of the players a new set of tactics / formation and he looked bewildered.

Yes we have injuries, but what other clubs don’t? (It doesn’t help matters by signing players like Ayala who was always injured at Middlesbrough etc - hardly a shock it’s now happened for us.) 

We have lost our way and as the season peters out, we will lose key players in the summer.

Another poor Saturday.

 

[Bbrovers2288]

13 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Yes that's another good shout. Surprising isn't it how it's the non spectacular signings in both cases that make or break the team. One overlooked area (cm for Bowyer defence for TM) and it undoes all the good work elsewhere. 

 

Absolutely, those backbone players that hold everything together. The goal scorers , flashy skills players get the headlines but it’s your blood and guts guys that allow them to 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, JPTSwindon said:

My issue with TM is the constant changing of players, formation, tactics etc. This is why the team isn’t clicking, making errors that lead to the goals conceded and have lost the instinct / confidence to score. In a break of play in the 2nd half they were showing one of the players a new set of tactics / formation and he looked bewildered.

Yes we have injuries, but what other clubs don’t? (It doesn’t help matters by signing players like Ayala who was always injured at Middlesbrough etc - hardly a shock it’s now happened for us.) 

We have lost our way and as the season peters out, we will lose key players in the summer.

Another poor Saturday.

 

He's bleated many times about consistency himself yet he never applies any to his own team selections. In his entire time we can't have had more than 3 games on the trot without a change or two.  It has not always been down to injuries or suspensions either. 

He's admitted he changes to counter opposition even doing it against much weaker sides in league 1.  I'll always be of the opinion that part of it just because he likes a happy camp so it's better to keep everyone involved.

Credible on the human level but not the work of a hard nosed success hungry manager. Just someone who likes to be liked.

Edited February 21, 2021 by tomphil