Brockhall STC - planning permission application ?

[Crimpshrine]

50 minutes ago, Ben Frost said:

"The proposals for both sites are inextricably linked meaning the residential development can only go ahead in conjunction with the building of the new training facility" 

But will the new training facility be guaranteed Cat 1 Academy status ?

Is any of this is worth the effort?

We already have excellent facilities for both a Cat 1 Academy and the first team. Lots of grass pitches, floodlit pitches, indoor pitches, swimmimg pool, class rooms. Will a new training centre squeezed onto a smaller space really be of so much benefit to the club that it is worth all the disruption and effort. I can't see it.

[tomphil]

We now have people going on saying they should just sell the whole lot and build a new site elsewhere on cheaper land.

Honestly i give up, similar yells for TM and his pals and 'all he's done for the club' (like er, just be paid to manage it) . Yet Jacks legacy and all he did for the club can be pissed all over so a few chancers can get kudos from their paymasters and maybe make a few quid.

Are they too dim to realize they are being sold a mirage by a salesman ?

Edited March 4, 2021 by tomphil

[Gone to seed]

4 minutes ago, tomphil said:

We now have people going on saying they should just sell the whole lot and build a new site elsewhere on cheaper land.

Honestly i give up, similar yells for TM and his pals and 'all he's done for the club' (like er, just be paid to manage it) . Yet Jacks legacy and all he did for the club can be pissed all over so a few chancers can get kudos from their paymasters and maybe make a few quid.

Are they too dim to realize they are being sold a mirage by a salesman ?

I think you answered your own question there...

[Mhead2]

1 hour ago, den said:

Yep. 
 

Also this... The week-long public consultation period for the proposals is set to start on March 11, with planning permission anticipated to be submitted later this month.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19134934.public-consultation-details-rovers-brockhall-plans-revealed/

so... does that mean the planning application will go ahead with no certainty of Cat 1 status? Also, what does it mean for Waggotts claim that nothings going to happen for years?

Members of the Rovers Trust Board have a Zoom meeting with the Rovers CEO tonight (Thursday4th) and there will be a Newsletter issued by end of weekend. This Plan  is still at a very early stage at the moment. If you are against it and live in the Ribble Valley Council area(as 148 of Trust Members do) then you have a democratic right to object(or support). I also know that the Fans Forum has a Zoom meeting with SW on Monday....so you can put views to them before Monday.

As Trust Chair ( cocked up my Mhead log-in) I am personally more worried about any changes in Rovers Strategy(or lack of) with this move. Asset-stripping can never be reversed.

[tomphil]

He can't say it's a cost cutting all under one roof job then marvel at a large Premier league clubs as an example.

Double glazing salesman.

It's a downscale that might pay for itself and realize a nice bit of commission. 

[Miller11]

51 minutes ago, renrag said:

Waggott might think he said enough when he lauded the virtues of Everton’s training facilities being on one site. However, what he didn’t say was that Finch Farm covers an area of 55 acres, whilst at the same time Brockhall  can accommodate the same facilities in less than 20 acres.

His latest line is telling us to “look at St George’s Park”

OK Steve, this is from the “about” section on the FA website...

Built in 2012 and set in 330-acres of stunning Staffordshire countryside, St. George's Park is the home of England’s national football teams. With 13 outdoor pitches, including a replica of the Wembley surface, a full-size indoor 3G pitch, a suite of rehabilitation and sports science areas, and an indoor futsal arena, St. George’s Park provides world-class facilities for the England teams ahead of international fixtures.

I’d add about another 8 storeys to your proposed training Centre Steve. And I await your proposals detailing how you intend to defy the laws of physics to give us enough pitches with baited breath.

The higher ups at Gillingham and Southend got rid of Waggott very quickly from roles where he was supposedly overseeing ground moves (neither of which have come to fruition I might add). Hopefully this will just be another in the long list of his failed redevelopment schemes, and he goes away soon.

[RoversClitheroe]

See a tweet from someone attended a meeting tonight with Waggot, anyone who went got an update?

[RevidgeBlue]

10 hours ago, Ben Frost said:

"The proposals for both sites are inextricably linked meaning the residential development can only go ahead in conjunction with the building of the new training facility" 

That's not quite right though, the applications are inextricably linked but if permissions are subsequently granted for both there's no obligation to act on either of them. However the option is there to do so if the Club wishes.

Hypothetically also if permission for the housing development was given but the one for the Training Centre was refused, the Club then know that the housing development has been agreed in principle and there would be nothing likely to stand in the way of a separate stand alone application in future.

I can't help but think we're being massively conned on this. If the intention was to genuinely improve the training facilities and retain Cat 1 Academy Status (apart from upgrading the existing facilities) then surely the way to go about it would have been to draw up detailed plans of the new combined training facility and what space was available for outdoor pitches and submit them to whoever deals with Academy classification to see if the new facility was likely to comply with Cat 1 status.

THEN (if the answer was affirmative) submit the joint application so that everyone knew exactly what we were dealing with.

The way it's been done seems to be the opposite, be as vague and non committal as possible about the training facility as possible to try and get the housing plans through.

Then, even if both sets of plans were approved, there's no guarantee at all the new facility will meet Cat 1 status. In fact if the new facility is built to the specification outlined in the application (i.e. virtually identical to the existing STC) then it seems unlikely that it would as according to Cat 1 regulations it seems  the Academy lads would have to have their own exclusive facility.

It comes across as though Waggott has either never given a thought to the subject of Academy Status or assumed we could do a new build and get Cat 1 status almost automatically and put the planning application in accordingly. 

Then someone has looked at the regulations ano said "shit they can't share!" at which point he has hurriedly started talking about 2 storey buildings and Cat 1 status being important after everyone kicked off about it.

[den]

@RevidgeBlue - all that land and they’re talking about squeezing a two storey building on there.  Second thoughts, absolutely no doubt.

[PeteJD13]

18 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

See a tweet from someone attended a meeting tonight with Waggot, anyone who went got an update?

From Ozz on twitter - 

 

Ozz

 

@Incredibid_Man

 

Found out some disappointing news regarding Brockhall training centre development plans tonight, if you are against the club selling it that is. Will be doing a write up for the Trust over weekend.

[tomphil]

Nothing will happen for years because soon as PP is granted they'll flog the land. Then most of the much promoted improvements and rebuilding will go on ice with similar spin to this journey we are on.

This is all about short term cash.

[JHRover]

The people running the club simply don't have the capability to deliver a project as suggested. They struggle to maintain what we've already got.

The name of this game is getting grubby hands on valuable land ripe for development. That's the easy part. Follow the process in a very lucrative part of the world and watch the property developers clamour to buy it. The rest is hot air to quieten opposition and get it through smoothly.

Sadly many people are just too easy to con.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, den said:

@RevidgeBlue - all that land and they’re talking about squeezing a two storey building on there.  Second thoughts, absolutely no doubt.

As things stand, without the specification for the new combined training centre on the application being amended, then if it were passed I can't forsee any other outcome than Cat 1 status being lost.

At which point we'd probably get some hard luck story from Waggott along the lines of "Everyone knows how important Cat 1 status was to me and we did our very best but unfortunately the constraints that were placed on us in order to obtain planning permission were incompatible with meeting the Cat 1 Academy requirements."

When in reality a perfunctory look at the regulations would have shown this before the scheme even got off the ground.

[rigger]

Could it be open for people from outside the effected area to object to the council about the planning . Stating that granting the permission would lose the academy cat1 status, and thus effect to the detriment of the larger local area ?

[JHRover]

14 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

As things stand, without the specification for the new combined training centre on the application being amended, then if it were passed I can't forsee any other outcome than Cat 1 status being lost.

At which point we'd probably get some hard luck story from Waggott along the lines of "Everyone knows how important Cat 1 status was to me and we did our very best but unfortunately the constraints that were placed on us in order to obtain planning permission were incompatible with meeting the Cat 1 Academy requirements."

When in reality a perfunctory look at the regulations would have shown this before the scheme even got off the ground.

Yes. It will be like taking candy from a baby for Waggott. The tough part will be getting the top site approved for 170 houses. Lots of hurdles to overcome and lots of potential issues and objections to deal with. This will be what is concerning him and occupying his time and energy (in return for his £300,000 i might add).

Assuming that first obstacle is overcome, and there's acres of land in the Ribble Valley set up for housing then 99% of the job is done.

What then for 'phase 2' of the plan - how to deal with the reality of maintaining a Category A academy on an inadequate side? That's the easy part - just come out with a range of sob stories and excuses. It will all quieten down after a few weeks. Most supporters couldn't really care less about academy status, or if they could will believe whatever nonsense they get fed.

Many are on the look out for downsizing and downscaling. Hey it will help the club because it will cost less to run a Category B academy - we could even put the difference into the first team!!!

And then even if Waggott gets loads of grief for it (he won't) then he'll be pushing 70 by then and ready to jet off into retirement having had 5-6 years on the payroll here. Never to be seen or visit Blackburn again. He's had his good salary and got the job done. No skin off his nose.

Meanwhile we've lost a great deal and will have to deal with that for decades to come.

 

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, PeteJD13 said:

From Ozz on twitter - 

 

Ozz

 

@Incredibid_Man

 

Found out some disappointing news regarding Brockhall training centre development plans tonight, if you are against the club selling it that is. Will be doing a write up for the Trust over weekend.

Are the contents of this meeting confidential for the benefit of the Trust then?

[Ozz]

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Are the contents of this meeting confidential for the benefit of the Trust then?

No. I am writing up the meeting for release this weekend, and it most likely will be linked on here too. 

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, Ozz said:

No. I am writing up the meeting for release this weekend, and it most likely will be linked on here too. 

Thanks.

[Parsonblue]

19 hours ago, Miller11 said:

His latest line is telling us to “look at St George’s Park”

OK Steve, this is from the “about” section on the FA website...

Built in 2012 and set in 330-acres of stunning Staffordshire countryside, St. George's Park is the home of England’s national football teams. With 13 outdoor pitches, including a replica of the Wembley surface, a full-size indoor 3G pitch, a suite of rehabilitation and sports science areas, and an indoor futsal arena, St. George’s Park provides world-class facilities for the England teams ahead of international fixtures.

I’d add about another 8 storeys to your proposed training Centre Steve. And I await your proposals detailing how you intend to defy the laws of physics to give us enough pitches with baited breath.

The higher ups at Gillingham and Southend got rid of Waggott very quickly from roles where he was supposedly overseeing ground moves (neither of which have come to fruition I might add). Hopefully this will just be another in the long list of his failed redevelopment schemes, and he goes away soon.

I've been to St George's Park to watch our Under-23's.  There is no way you could have a development the size of St. George's Park on the present Academy site.  The indoor pitch at St. George's Park would cover the present car park and academy building on its own.

If you put the present Senior Training Ground complex and the Academy together you might come close to having something approaching the size of St George's Park but not as large. 

St George's Park is a stunning complex - with a huge Hilton hotel in the middle of it - whilst I suspect whatever Waggott and co are planning will be strictly bargain basement.

[tomphil]

He's a salesman doing a selling job.

[PeteJD13]

56 minutes ago, tomphil said:

He's a salesman doing a selling job.

Sadly a lot of fans have bought into it, one thing I want to know is did this sell off originate in Pune or closer to home

Edited March 5, 2021 by PeteJD13

[tomphil]

38 minutes ago, PeteJD13 said:

Sadly a lot of fans have bought into it, one thing I want to know is did this sell off originate in Pune or closer to home

I'd lay odds it's been cooked up around here then pitched to them back there via the middlemon.

Edited March 5, 2021 by tomphil

[PeteJD13]

14 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I'd lay odds it's been cooked up around here then pitched to them back there via the middlemon.

That’s what I thought it’s really deflated me, It’s such a sham

[phili]

I was speaking to a developer during the week who claims it is a lot further along than we anticipate. He indicated that the STC has already been sold to a developer pending approval of the planning application.

I am hopeful he was just pulling my leg but I am not so sure these days.

Why billionaires require this small amount of cash i have no idea. Also as investments in training grounds and youth developments are excluded from FFP calculations they could build a world class facility at any time they want. 

I could understand moving to one facility if we were moving to a 200 acre purpose built facility but this just makes no sense at all as Brockhall is already in the top 15 facilities in the UK and certainly the best in the Championship.

[Claytons Left Boot]

18 hours ago, JHRover said:

What then for 'phase 2' of the plan - how to deal with the reality of maintaining a Category A academy on an inadequate side? That's the easy part - just come out with a range of sob stories and excuses. It will all quieten down after a few weeks. Most supporters couldn't really care less about academy status, or if they could will believe whatever nonsense they get fed.

Given the abject, passive, ‘couldn’t give a feck’ response from 95% of our support once it became clear we were being rinsed and raped by unscrupulous two hats back in 2010-2012, I have every confidence in the Coventry Three causing untold damage and pulling off this scam.