Brockhall STC - planning permission application ?

[Mashed Potatoes]

7 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Can i ask and its a genuine question as im not that clued up on this.Isnt the majority of our debt owed to the owners?

How much debt do we have that isnt owed to them?

Recent examples of clubs going to admin, the majority of their debt was owed to figures outside the club, taxman,loans etc which resulted in their owners being unable/unwilling to pay the debt off and continue to pay the  the wages 

Accounts as at June 2020 showed £141m owed to the owners and a bank overdraft of £14m.  You are correct in what you say about the circumstances surrounding other clubs going in to administration which is why until today I didn't think there was any prospect of it happening to us. But if they did just get fed up funding us they could now do it and have something to show for their money.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, J*B said:

It’s going to take a hell of a lot to convince me that Rovers no longer owning their training ground is a good thing. 

What are you talking about?

"Rovers" don't own anything!!!

[lraC]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Great Post. 

Nice to see some balance  being injected into the debate.

It seems to me on first glance the owners are getting panned for trying to find creative ways of injecting funds into the Club without breaching FFP. ***

*** Needs further clarification and investigation and I stand to be corrected should anything untoward come to light.

All it takes is a statement from someone at the club. A pre - emptive one, would have stopped the speculation, but perhaps, the owners, don’t consider the fans are worthy of that. After all, we didn’t buy enough season tickets did we?

[den]

Selling only the STC and not the whole of Brockhall to the owners in order to get round FFP doesn’t make much sense to me.

 

[J*B]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

What are you talking about?

"Rovers" don't own anything!!!

If I bought Blackburn Rovers yesterday I got the training ground. If I buy them now I don’t. 

[lraC]

2 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Accounts as at June 2020 showed £141m owed to the owners and a bank overdraft of £14m.  You are correct in what you say about the circumstances surrounding other clubs going in to administration which is why until today I didn't think there was any prospect of it happening to us. But if they did just get fed up funding us they could now do it and have something to show for their money.

A training ground worth £17 million, after throwing £150 million at it, is hardly anything to write home about.

[den]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

If I bought Blackburn Rovers yesterday I got the training ground. If I buy them now I don’t. 

That’s how I see it.

edit… but only the STC? It must be linked to the attempt to sell the STC recently?

Edited October 27, 2021 by den

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

What are you talking about?

"Rovers" don't own anything!!!

Yes they did own the training centre. If the club had gone in to administration the centre would have been one of the assets of the club. Now it's gone - and the club will probably be paying rent for it.

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 minute ago, lraC said:

A training ground worth £17 million, after throwing £150 million at it, is hardly anything to write home about.

But better than nothing.

[lraC]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

If I bought Blackburn Rovers yesterday I got the training ground. If I buy them now I don’t. 

Any future administrator might have a bigger problem finding a buyer than they otherwise might have.

[JHRover]

Before this transaction were someone to try and buy the club or Venkys try and market it for sale part of that package would be ownership of the training ground.

Now it would not.

That's a pretty substantial and valuable asset out of the club's portfolio.

of course it can be remedied quite easily by transferring it back to the club just before any sale if the intentions are honest and positive. But if not it could be bad bad news when assets end up owned elsewhere.

In the past I have encouraged moves such as these to circumvent FFP rules. I'm not sure i believe that is the motive here, not after what happened earlier this year.

[lraC]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

But better than nothing.

I will give you that, but I’m not buying my next house for 1000% of its value.

[RevidgeBlue]

3 minutes ago, J*B said:

If I bought Blackburn Rovers yesterday I got the training ground. If I buy them now I don’t. 

There's no evidence to suggest that whatsoever!!!

[lraC]

7 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

What are you talking about?

"Rovers" don't own anything!!!

Venky’s London Limited, trading as Blackburn Rovers, football and athletic club. 

[J*B]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

There's no evidence to suggest that whatsoever!!!

Is this some sort of trick that I’m not getting?

[islander200]

10 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Accounts as at June 2020 showed £141m owed to the owners and a bank overdraft of £14m.  You are correct in what you say about the circumstances surrounding other clubs going in to administration which is why until today I didn't think there was any prospect of it happening to us. But if they did just get fed up funding us they could now do it and have something to show for their money.

Yeah a senior training ground valued at 16.6 million that cant be used for housing?

In all fairness the value of the STC is nothing when they are already carrying a debt of 141 million.

Of course it goes without saying that there should be suspicion but id have to disagree that administration is in their thoughts.Not one single inkling that they have been looking to sell the club, surely that would be considered and the club put on the market before administration is entertained.

 

[Miller11]

9 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

What are you talking about?

"Rovers" don't own anything!!!

It has been transferred from Blackburn Rovers Football and Athletic Limited to a different company. It’s exactly what has happened.

[tomphil]

The 3 of them might just be seeking security for extra funds they may have pooled between them to see the club over the pandemic.

Doesn't mean it'll count for anything going forwards other than keeping us in business as usual.

[den]

If Venkys bought the STC from Blackburn rovers, does that not mean they are two separate companies @RevidgeBlue?

[RevidgeBlue]

13 minutes ago, JHRover said:

If its anything to do with FFP then why are they persisting with the claim we can't get Nyambe and Rothwell on new contracts?

Mowbray and Waggott aren't using that as an excuse are they?

Probably because it's their fault we ran into FFP difficulties in the first place.

[RevidgeBlue]

4 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

It has been transferred from Blackburn Rovers Football and Athletic Limited to a different company. It’s exactly what has happened.

Banging my head against a brick wall here....... who own 99.9% of "Blackburn Rovers Football and Athletic Ltd"

Exactly the same people who own the new Company!!!

[Gav]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48964055

Sheffield Wednesday ended up in league 1 after a points deduction for selling the ground to the owner? sadly he got his accounting periods wrong and points were deducted for breaking FFP.

Could be something similar going on here….

Edited October 27, 2021 by Gav

[Miller11]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Banging my head against a brick wall here....... who own 99.9% of "Blackburn Rovers Football and Athletic Ltd"

Exactly the same people who own the new Company!!!

Don’t know about banging your head against a brick wall Rev, but you seem determined to pin absolutely everything wrong with the club on Mowbray and Waggott and absolve Venky’s of any blame at all. It’s very odd.

The training ground is no longer an asset of BRFC. There are some serious potential long term implications to this.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

1 minute ago, MCMC1875 said:

I smell a sell off.

Why - they can do what they want anyway - they don't need to hive off to a separate business to do that. The reason they couldn't sell the STC in the first place were nothing to do with it being part of Blackburn Rovers.

I am not an accountant - but can't see why this makes it any better or any worse than it already was.

[RevidgeBlue]

9 minutes ago, J*B said:

Is this some sort of trick that I’m not getting?

You're not getting it but it's not a trick question.

Venky's own the Club and it's assets in their entirety already. (Apart from a handful of shares owned by individuals).

The fact that technical ownership of the STC has switched to a different Company  owned by exactly the same people is neither here nor there UNLESS the assets of the new Company weren't included in any future sale of the Club.

There's absolutely nothing to suggest that would be the case but it is something which needs urgent clarification and assurances.