Brockhall STC - planning permission application ?

[Mattyblue]

‘Fickle fans’ from the bloke who stopped going himself several years back.

[47er]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

I dont blame the fans who dont go, i still go myself but attended protests im not happy with how the club is run and want them out.

However i dont think we can moan at the owners for not spending money and throw our toys out of the pram when no money is spent or we struggle to offer high enough wages when FFP simply wont allow it.

I think its legitimate to moan at how the club is run and how the money was spent but dont think we can complain over the money they put in,its sufficient and we are still close to the limit with FFP.

I get the suspicions over this training ground fiasco but the club needed money at least something is being done about it.Unless the money a housing project would bring in would make a serious dent in the losses the owners have built up i domt find it plausable that its some underhand way of clawing some cash back.

If the deal had gone ahead last year and the housing development went ahead that money would have been injected into the club like the 16.6 million was.

 

 

 

Couldn't they just sell?

[47er]

54 minutes ago, Ulrich said:

hing good will happen with these charlatans in charge and we will end up less than when Jack started his journey

This.

[47er]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

If the deal had gone ahead last year and the housing development went ahead that money would have been injected into the club like the 16.6 million was.

 

1) Why would it? Armstrong money wasn't.

2)And would have been wasted anyway.

[islander200]

6 minutes ago, 47er said:

1) Why would it? Armstrong money wasn't.

2)And would have been wasted anyway.

The Armstrong money couldnt be spent due to FFP.Until we lose the spend  in the ffp calculations from our first season back in the championship then we are extremely limited in what we can spend.

The 16.6 million was injected before the Armstrong deal was even done and we still cant spend.

Before this summer plenty had been spent/wasted  and only Raya for 3 million and Nuttall were sold on from first team.

Agree with your earlier post ,they should sell but been no hint they are willing to do that 

[LDRover]

12 hours ago, den said:

Not having that.

Its just a coincidence that it’s the same STC they tried to sell off for housing around the same time?  What follows - sell themselves the other half next season, the ground the season after?

Sorry, not for me.

 

Exactly Den, thickish end of a thicker wedge this. Plenty more to go at before they bring the curtain down on this clusterfuck.

[K-Hod]

Remember not to bait each other and respect others’ views please. 
If someone wants to boycott- that’s their right. If someone wants to continue to attend, that’s their right.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, islander200 said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19677234.comply-ffp---blackburn-rovers-sold-brockhall-training-base/

Financial experts opinion the sale was done purely to comply with FFP

Rovers’ sale of their Brockahll trainnig ground was done in ‘order to comply with Financial Fair Play’.

That’s the view of Football Finance expert Kieran Maguire who says the timing of the move was so the funds used from the sale could be used as part of the club’s FFP calculations.

[LDRover]

16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Rovers’ sale of their Brockahll trainnig ground was done in ‘order to comply with Financial Fair Play’.

That’s the view of Football Finance expert Kieran Maguire who says the timing of the move was so the funds used from the sale could be used as part of the club’s FFP calculations.

Can kind of agree with the timing of the move, what I'm struggling with is the time of the statement, or lack of one.

[Gav]

5 minutes ago, LDRover said:

Can kind of agree with the timing of the move, what I'm struggling with is the time of the statement, or lack of one.

As Herbie said yesterday, this is a sticking plaster for a broken leg and the lack of statement points towards it being underhanded in some way, no surprises there.

The ground will be sold off next in the name of FFP, after then we have nothing left to sell.....

[islander200]

6 minutes ago, Gav said:

As Herbie said yesterday, this is a sticking plaster for a broken leg and the lack of statement points towards it being underhanded in some way, no surprises there.

The ground will be sold off next in the name of FFP, after then we have nothing left to sell.....

So what should we have done to avoid sanctions?

The STC has been sold from one hand to the other.They have sold it to themselves.

The 16.6 has gone into the club to prevent us being sanctioned.

If they one day decide to piss off and sell the club there is nothing stopping them from including the STC as part of the deal.

I am totally on board and agree it is through their mismanagent that we have got to this point.But if we didnt do something about getting money into the club we could have faced a point deduction and a transfer ban which almost certainly would have led to relegation.

When they were discussing selling it for housing last season it stands to reason that money would have been injected into the club, it wouldnt have been lining their own pockets

 

[blondie]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

 

As for 90% not returning, history shows us quite clearly that if the product on the pitch is good, the Blackburn public will turn out in numbers, its been that way since 1875 and will continue to be that way forever. You put Blackburn Rovers back in the premiership right now and we'd see a massive spike in numbers coming to games, you take Venkys out of the equation and you'd see even more.

 

Venkys Out.

History says otherwise.

Sure people attended watching a Premier League winning side, but don't forget the dwindling attendances Ince/Allardyce era.

John Williams drastically reducing season ticket prices to raise attendances.

Are people who add clauses to there attendance at Ewood, like Premiership football or a change of ownership ,  just fans and not supporters.

Being a Rovers supporter is not conditional, it's supporting through good times and bad.

We will only be a strong as the income we achieve, which larger attendances will go a small part in helping.

 

[arbitro]

In April/May the STC was up for sale to property developers. Fast forward a few weeks and they set up a new company to buy the STC.

This just doesn't feel right. Had they been half decent owners it might have been accepted. Given their history it's perfectly in order to be suspicious of their motives.

Why on earth has there been a complete silence from them or their representatives since it was sold in June? Despite the condescending recent letter from one of them nothing has changed.

[47er]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

The Armstrong money couldnt be spent due to FFP.Until we lose the spend  in the ffp calculations from our first season back in the championship then we are extremely limited in what we can spend.

 

You think we'll see it one day then? Not so confident myself.

[47er]

9 minutes ago, blondie said:

ohn Williams drastically reducing season ticket prices to raise attendances.

 

One of the poorest towns in Britain. You want people to spend what they haven't got?

We're not Chelsea you know.

[JHRover]

All this talk about FFP - you'd think the rules were new to us or that we had suddenly had them imposed with no warning.

We spent 2014-17 whinging about the rules and suffering because of them. I thought things were supposed to be different - building on a sustainable footing, being sensible, not saddling the club with ridiculous wages.

And here we are. Transfer embargo earlier this year, selling the training ground, slashing costs left right and centre, selling our star player and losing what little quality we have on free transfers because we can't or won't sort out new contracts.

What exactly has changed in the last 6 years? The club seems to be no further on than it was back then.

And I'm still waiting for someone to explain why we have such a hard time of managing FFP yet all these other clubs in the Championship manage it without sanctions, without £20 million losses, without billionaire owners and without selling their training grounds - see Preston, Luton, Barnsley, Millwall and many more.

[islander200]

13 minutes ago, arbitro said:

In April/May the STC was up for sale to property developers. Fast forward a few weeks and they set up a new company to buy the STC.

This just doesn't feel right. Had they been half decent owners it might have been accepted. Given their history it's perfectly in order to be suspicious of their motives.

Why on earth has there been a complete silence from them or their representatives since it was sold in June? Despite the condescending recent letter from one of them nothing has changed.

If the STC had been sold for housing then that money would have gone into the club like the 16.6 million has.

Why didnt they just sell the STC to someone else rather than themselves and pocket the cash?

Would a housing development on the land in question have made a serious dent in the losses they have made so far?

I agree this should have been discussed with the fans and a statement should have been put out when this deal was done, but if it had been we still would be discussing it the same way as we are now suspiciously which i totally understand and am not criticising anyone with that view

[blondie]

5 minutes ago, 47er said:

One of the poorest towns in Britain. You want people to spend what they haven't got?

We're not Chelsea you know.

The comment was in reply to a statement that people will flock back to Ewood for Premiership football or new owners.

It's the conditional supporters I have a problem with, not people who cannot afford it , which is perfectly understandable.

[martonrover]

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

That's some moral high ground you have taken for someone who actually boycotted. I don't blame anybody whatsoever for not going. Life under these owners has mostly been a decade of purgatory. To try and pin some of the blame on supporters for players not signing new deals is ridiculous.

Some clowns were posting “It’s the fans fault” garbage on the Facebook group yesterday.

If people still wish to attend, fine, I have no problem with that.

I do have a problem with the holier than thou attitude, though.

I understand and respect the arguments for continuing to attend, but the choice not to attend should also be respected.

For many , it has nothing to do with being fickle or not being interested because we’re not in the Premier League.

As a fan for over forty years I want to return, but will not do so until meaningful changes have been made, (eg the manager & / or Chief Executive), and the club demonstrates purpose and ambition other than providing a development platform for it’s own and Premier League clubs’ youngsters.

 

[tomphil]

15 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

Possibly because it gives them the same opportunity in the next FFP cycle.

ie 'sell' the STC to to beef up income in this cycle. Then 'sell' the Academy in the next cycle, if need be.

Yep then by the end of it the owners have taken the fixed assets from the club to themselves. Then they can sell them to get their money back and buy a smaller cheaper site and stick up their kit build cheaper smaller training center.

[islander200]

16 minutes ago, 47er said:

You think we'll see it one day then? Not so confident myself.

I think we will see some of it.

Forgetting this summer,the previous seasons we brought in Armstrong, Gallagher and Brererton for decent fees.It could be argued they were purely bought with potential profit in mind.

But then you also have the likes of Ayala,Johnson and Holtby.Players who were on wages higher than our wage ceiling prior to comimg here and we would have had to pay some sort of signing on fee to get them in the door.These players are ageing and had no resale value

[JHRover]

So lets get this right on the timing.

February 2021 - a member of the public discovers on the Ribble Valley planning portal that Rovers have had plans drawn up to demolish the STC, build a housing estate on it and combine both sides onto the lower academy site.

Once this discovery is made the Waggott, in embarrassing fashion, attempts to sell the project as being a good, positive, forward step for the Club, even recording a face to face interview to extol the positives of this, claiming that the Ribble Valley planning department had taken him by surprise in releasing the plans online before Rovers had announced it themselves.

The Club then spends god knows how much instructing surveyors and planners and running a consultation period, setting up a website etc.

By 9th April 2021 the club has performed a complete U turn, confirming that the proposals would not be progressed and "will now consider other options".

By 11th June 2021 a company has been set up seemingly with the sole purpose of purchasing the STC, and by 24th June 2021 that purchase has been completed and the transfer registered at HMLR.

4 whole months pass by with no mention of anything from the Club until 27th October 2021 when once again a member of the public discovers via the submission of documents online about the transfer earlier in the year. Within a couple of hours the Lancashire Telegraph have managed to obtain something from "a club spokesman" blaming the pandemic and FFP rules - both of which were there many months earlier and during the housing estate efforts.

I'm sorry but it is going to take more than the textbook blame FFP or the pandemic to make me believe there isnt more to this than meets the eye.

[tomphil]

4 minutes ago, martonrover said:

Some clowns were posting “It’s the fans fault” garbage on the Facebook group yesterday.

If people still wish to attend, fine, I have no problem with that.

I do have a problem with the holier than thou attitude, though.

I understand and respect the arguments for continuing to attend, but the choice not to attend should also be respected.

For many , it has nothing to do with being fickle or not being interested because we’re not in the Premier League.

As a fan for over forty years I want to return, but will not do so until meaningful changes have been made, (eg the manager & / or Chief Executive), and the club demonstrates purpose and ambition other than providing a development platform for it’s own and Premier League clubs’ youngsters.

 

What these clowns and some on here don't grasp is that it would need 20k ave gates in this league to make any difference. Even then if the thing isn't run right - which it 100% wouldn't be - then we'd still end up in the same boat.

They just don't look around and see what's going on but smaller clubs with smaller gates often do better. And some far bigger ones with gates to match do worse.

It's ALL about how clubs are run and owned and who is doing it. This is a town club in an area that's always had more issues than most others. The few thousand extra we might be capable of getting, if our support wasn't so shite according to these 'sooper fan' types who only exist on social media, really wouldn't stop the rot we find ourselves in.

It didn't at Bolton for example and it wouldn't here, demographics and finance limit our support not passion. Nearly every club in the land has a large element that will only come and go according to form. That is just football the examples are endless.

Quite honestly if you attach most of the blame for these things that keep happening at Rovers under this ownership to the fanbase you are a tit. A large one.

[islander200]

29 minutes ago, JHRover said:

All this talk about FFP - you'd think the rules were new to us or that we had suddenly had them imposed with no warning.

We spent 2014-17 whinging about the rules and suffering because of them. I thought things were supposed to be different - building on a sustainable footing, being sensible, not saddling the club with ridiculous wages.

And here we are. Transfer embargo earlier this year, selling the training ground, slashing costs left right and centre, selling our star player and losing what little quality we have on free transfers because we can't or won't sort out new contracts.

What exactly has changed in the last 6 years? The club seems to be no further on than it was back then.

And I'm still waiting for someone to explain why we have such a hard time of managing FFP yet all these other clubs in the Championship manage it without sanctions, without £20 million losses, without billionaire owners and without selling their training grounds - see Preston, Luton, Barnsley, Millwall and many more.

We are terribly run with absent owners and a sub standard Ceo and poor manager.

Those clubs you mention dont spend what we do and their fan base hasnt been destroyed by their owners.

Its their fault but its reality we couldnt/cant spend and its reality the club needed an injection of cash that the owners couldnt directly put in 

[islander200]

16 minutes ago, JHRover said:

So lets get this right on the timing.

February 2021 - a member of the public discovers on the Ribble Valley planning portal that Rovers have had plans drawn up to demolish the STC, build a housing estate on it and combine both sides onto the lower academy site.

Once this discovery is made the Waggott, in embarrassing fashion, attempts to sell the project as being a good, positive, forward step for the Club, even recording a face to face interview to extol the positives of this, claiming that the Ribble Valley planning department had taken him by surprise in releasing the plans online before Rovers had announced it themselves.

The Club then spends god knows how much instructing surveyors and planners and running a consultation period, setting up a website etc.

By 9th April 2021 the club has performed a complete U turn, confirming that the proposals would not be progressed and "will now consider other options".

By 11th June 2021 a company has been set up seemingly with the sole purpose of purchasing the STC, and by 24th June 2021 that purchase has been completed and the transfer registered at HMLR.

4 whole months pass by with no mention of anything from the Club until 27th October 2021 when once again a member of the public discovers via the submission of documents online about the transfer earlier in the year. Within a couple of hours the Lancashire Telegraph have managed to obtain something from "a club spokesman" blaming the pandemic and FFP rules - both of which were there many months earlier and during the housing estate efforts.

I'm sorry but it is going to take more than the textbook blame FFP or the pandemic to make me believe there isnt more to this than meets the eye.

How much could they potentially get from a housing project?

How much more than 16 million?