Brockhall STC - planning permission application ?

[Darrenbot]

15 minutes ago, J*B said:

Last warning - it’s Sunday, I’m walking my dog and my phone keeps beeping with reports on this thread. If you carry on attacking posters expect a ban. I don’t want to do it, but I do want to walk my dog. Lovely lattes at Spring Wood, by the way. 

your dog's probably thinking 'stop looking at your phone you're supposed to be taking me for a Sunday stroll' 😀

[EgyptianPete]

3 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I am so, so sick of this lazy argument. Stop running down your own club. The only way these clubs are comparable to us is they are based in what was Lancashire.

We are Blackburn Rovers, not Bury! We have a glorious history, we are more successful, we have a bigger fanbase... 

We could be the next Leicester, if we had remotely competent owners. 

Whoa there my friend I have NEVER and NEVER will run down my club who i have suppoerted some 55years. I was refering to a previous post and what could happen if the Venkys pulled the plug.

[J*B]

The biggest issue with all of this for me is it doesn’t leave room to upscale. Fine, we might not need the space or use it at the moment.
But that land is prime. Once it’s sold, we will never have the opportunity to buy more - no money can buy it, there’s none left. 

By selling the STC we are limiting the future of the club.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

I think they do *seem* fine, as I said, but I'm not an idiot - I know that there's more to it than what something seems. I have reservations about aspects, I'd want to see more plans and more information, and of course there's also the point that I don't even think its going to happen.

There's bits about it I like, bits I don't like. It's not as black or white for me as TERRIBLE or AMAZING news.

You're first post was supportive of the project. Questioned less than an hour later about the detail and you are sketchy to say the least, and have nothing positive to say. 

Forgive my scepticism. 

[Richard Oakley]

@JoeHWhat is it that you 'like' about this proposal?

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, J*B said:

By selling the STC we are limiting the future of the club.

The opposite of what Jack's legacy bequeathed to us. 

[perthblue02]

It must have been hell for Rovers players training at Brockhall in 1991 especially when they started demolishing the hospital on the site a year later. 

Alt-news courtesy of Blackburn Rovers 

Edited February 21, 2021 by perthblue02

[Miller11]

21 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Was neither the current JTC or STC site in use in any capacity 30 years ago? Very odd thing for them to say otherwise.

Nope. I presume it was farmland and the hospital still at that time. I think the training facilities opened there, if memory serves me correctly around 1994. In some of the autobiographies I’ve read from players with us at that time they talk about how big a change it was. I don’t know exactly what it looked like then, but I presume there have been regular upgrades between its opening and now.

 

Edit - see Perth Blue’s post above

Edited February 21, 2021 by Miller11
Edit

[Dreams of 1995]

2 minutes ago, J*B said:

The biggest issue with all of this for me is it doesn’t leave room to upscale. Fine, we might not need the space or use it at the moment.
But that land is prime. Once it’s sold, we will never have the opportunity to buy more - no money can buy it, there’s none left. 

By selling the STC we are limiting the future of the club.

This in a nutshell. Selling off land for development is final. Once them homes are built we will never be able to house our training centre there again. 
 

We may not use them pitches now but an ambitious owner might do. Selling land devalues our club - they have done enough of that already. 
 

I am still waiting for someone to list actual positives of this development except for people other than the club. The proposals do not replicate what we have whatsoever. It’s a downscaling operation and it has all been laid out for us in those plans. If you don’t come to that conclusion then you either don’t understand the plans or quite frankly don’t care enough. This IS a black and white thing. Theres no room for “other opinions” tbh because it is either a good thing or a bad thing and no in the middle. 
 

I would argue selling our land is a bad thing when the reality of the refurb is that it’s downscaling. I wait to be proven wrong though. 

[Herbie6590]

5 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

You're first post was supportive of the project. Questioned less than an hour later about the detail and you are sketchy to say the least, and have nothing positive to say. 

Forgive my scepticism. 

If constructive debate & exploration of different perspectives changes someone’s mind...isn’t that a good thing ? 

[den]

7 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

It must have been hell for Rovers players training at Brockhall in 1991 especially when they started demolishing the hospital on the site a year later. 

Alt-news courtesy of Blackburn Rovers 

I used to go down to the Pleasington playing fields to watch rovers train when Dalglish and Hartford were taking training.  speedie was still at Rovers.
That would be 91 or 92.
 

Edited February 21, 2021 by den

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 minute ago, Herbie6590 said:

If constructive debate & exploration of different perspectives changes someone’s mind...isn’t that a good thing ? 

Of course. But at least sleep on it. 😉

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

@JoeHWhat is it that you 'like' about this proposal?

Pro's:
- Financially beneficial to the club
- Brand new building which *could* be state-of-the-art facility
- May allow club to adopt different ideas on youth development, housing juniors teams within same location as senior teams as seen at other top European clubs
- Moving 1 minute from current location, not a drastic change unlike some clubs

Cons/Questions:
- No room for further development in the future due to a decisive and final move which would be irreversible
- Less building space per player (unless the most junior of our teams are relocated)
- Selling the land technically is financially beneficial but does it not technically devalue the club? Might need some more well knowledged opinion on that.

[Richard Oakley]

I wonder, if when the permission for 400 homes to built that was the maximum number of homes that could be built on the old hospital site. I don't know of a way to check. Short of wading through the applications and approval from back then.

[Herbie6590]

1 minute ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Of course. But at least sleep on it. 😉

I demand INSTANT results 😁

[perthblue02]

18 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Nope. I presume it was farmland and the hospital still at that time. I think the training facilities opened there, if memory serves me correctly around 1994. In some of the autobiographies I’ve read from players with us at that time they talk about how big a change it was. I don’t know exactly what it looked like then, but I presume there have been regular upgrades between its opening and now.

 

Edit - see Perth Blue’s post above 

I think you are right on the opening year of the senior training facility sometime in 1994 , at a cost of 4.5/5 million from memory.

Edited February 21, 2021 by perthblue02

[den]

It’s really, really hard to get past the view that they’re selling off that land because someone’s seen a lot of available cash - and not because they financially have no other option.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

My parent's worked at the former hospital, I grew up on Larkhill. The junior TC is based at the superb sports fields belonging to the hospital trust, for staff teams, two football pitches and a billiard like cricket field. No expense was spared at the hospital. The STC is on the site of former hospital wings that were demolished when Thatcher decided on care in the community. The facilities are excellent. This is simply to raise cash.....by whom.....?

[Herbie6590]

2 minutes ago, JoeH said:
- Selling the land technically is financially beneficial but does it not technically devalue the club? Might need some more well knowledged opinion on that.

It changes the nature of the balance sheet - converts a fixed asset (land & buildings) into a current asset (cash) & if sold at more than book value generates a profit.

[arbitro]

29 minutes ago, JoeH said:

1/2) We're not currently using all of the pitch space available at the STC & JTC to the best of my knowledge (someone feel free to correct me on that but I've been told this by a few). Therefore I can understand an argument for pragmatism on getting the most out of a more appropriate pitch space.

3) Yes, definitely a downside. My assumption is that the club have taken this into account but there's no possible outcome where the space per player can be improved in any way.

4 & 5) In short, I don't personally know. The club have made comment on changes in youth development and there's been rumblings and rumours about that too, but a lot of what I've seen sounds like theoretical and educational changes, perhaps coming away from the EPPP I don't know. However most of these changes sound as though they could be adopted without the location change. Again I think on that front time will tell.

 

The pitch usage at both TC's is rotated to save them wearing out and keep them in good nick which is why there are so many, that is common at most training grounds. Fewer pitches means more use and rapid deterioration. I think pitch quality is one of the Cat One criteria.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

I may have dreamt it but is there not a picture  somewhere of Kenny on someone shoulders putting the nets up at Pleasington pre-Brockhall?

[den]

Could it be that Venkys are planning on getting out and grabbing what they can before they do?

[Herbie6590]

1 minute ago, Proudtobeblue&white said:

My parent's worked at the former hospital, I grew up on Larkhill. The junior TC is based at the superb sports fields belonging to the hospital trust, for staff teams, two football pitches and a billiard like cricket field. No expense was spared at the hospital. The STC is on the site of former hospital wings that were demolished when Thatcher decided on care in the community. The facilities are excellent. This is simply to raise cash.....by whom.....?

I suspect you are correct. No income for 12 months....this is a proxy for matchday revenues that have been lost.

[Herbie6590]

Just now, den said:

Could it be that Venkys are planning on getting out and grabbing what they can before they do?

It’s a possibility but it’s rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic unless there is hidden oil reserves at the JTC. 

[Mattyblue]

14 minutes ago, den said:

I used to go down to the Pleasington playing fields to watch rovers train when Dalglish and Hartford were taking training.  speedie was still at Rovers.
That would be 91 or 92.
 

They were often training down on Pleckgate playing fields in 1994.

Indeed me and my dad used to watch and on one pre-season session he thought this new ginger lad was Perry Groves... it was Robbie Slater.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Mattyblue