Brockhall STC - planning permission application ?

[Crimpshrine]

1 hour ago, 1864roverite said:

So in another conspiracy we now have the Coventry 3 together again with a view to ripping off venkys by selling part of our training facilities?

I understand the views and thoughts and concerns, I am not behind the sale of the facilities however as a realistic view apart from selling everything and moving elsewhere what are alternative options open to the club?

Waggott has stated that if the building plans are turned down we will maintain 'the status quo' - so no change. This, therefore must be a realistic alternatvie option open to the club. If it ain't broke...

[Ulrich]

I am willing to help/aid any attempt to stop this and attempt to remove venkys. For 10 years this lot have been destroying our club, Jack's legacy and have ruined football for me and 1000s of others. I want them gone, I do not care the cost, we will never get anywhere whilst these shysters occupy our club.

[Miller11]

Questions I would like to put to Waggott.

1. In your recent communication you disingenuously stated that the facilities at Brockhall are 30 years old, and implied they needed upgrading.

 

- Specifically, which facilities are “tired” or outdated?

- What will they be upgraded to?

- If the facilities are not up to standard how did we maintain Cat 1 status? Burnley’s brand new training complex for example is only cat 2.

- What “state of the art” facilities are we lacking?

- If facilities require upgrading has finance for this been requested from Venky’s and been refused? It would not count toward FFP calculations.

-  You have made several references to other teams facilities, namely Everton and St George’s park. They are much larger facilities than it would be possible to replicate on one site. Just in terms of pitch space we will be miles behind. Does it not concern you that we will be losing not only pitch space in the short term, but also limiting any potential for future development?

 

 

2. In the same document it states:

“The club is therefore looking at a plan to develop a new coaching structure – to support and accelerate player pathway through the system”

- Please could you outline what this structure looks like?

- Is this a plan outside of the established Elite Player Performance Plan? 

If so, why are we deviating from industry standard?

- If not, do you envision retaining Cat 1 status? This seems unlikely given the reduction in pitch space.

- Whose vision is this? Who has designed this new structure?

- Surely it makes more sense to tweak a coaching structure in line with facilities than to reduce facilities to accommodate a structure?

 

3. A long term reduction of running costs has been given as a reason for this proposal.

 

- Is this an acknowledgement that promotion is unlikely, or perhaps not even a target?

- Surely any savings would be minimal with this proposed scheme, particularly in comparison to the increased revenue a promotion would bring? They would also take years to realise.

 

4. Steve Waggott has been involved in redevelopment projects at both Gillingham and Southend which didn’t come to fruition. There were also well documented issues at Coventry while he and members of our management team were there. 

 

- Ground redevelopment appears to be a recurring theme throughout your career, however your track record appears very poor. Neither Gillingham or Southend have the new grounds you were working towards. Coventry have no ground and an absolutely farcical situation with their training ground. Are you the best person to be managing this project?

- Why do you appear to value property deals above fan engagement, or marketing of the club?

-Do you or anyone involved in the club have relationships with or interests in property development firms?

 

 

 

[Ulrich]

I would like to be the one posing the questions, it's my field, war of words and I'm rather good at it.

If any of the bodies would like an articulate and intelligent speaker, then I am game.

PMs are most welcome.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

24 minutes ago, Ulrich said:

I am willing to help/aid any attempt to stop this and attempt to remove venkys. For 10 years this lot have been destroying our club, Jack's legacy and have ruined football for me and 1000s of others. I want them gone, I do not care the cost, we will never get anywhere whilst these shysters occupy our club.

1. Though this idea is from an employee of Venky's - this isnt their idea

2. If you (or your friends) have a spare £200m to cover existing debts - and approx £15m a season spare - go for it

In the absence of somebody with very deep pockets coming forward - we are in a bit of a pickle - as without them, I am not certain a club would exist.

[MarkBRFC]

1 minute ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

In the absence of somebody with very deep pockets coming forward - we are in a bit of a pickle - as without them, I am not certain a club would exist.

Giving them far too much credit there.

If they were to pull the plug one day, are you telling me there isn't anybody out there that could/would take us on? A club of this size and stature?

Despite what a lot of Rovers fans seem to think, the club can and will thrive in a world where Tony bloody Mowbray and Venkys have left town.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Where are the plans for the new training complex?....

[Leonard Venkhater]

53 minutes ago, Ulrich said:

I am willing to help/aid any attempt to stop this and attempt to remove venkys. For 10 years this lot have been destroying our club, Jack's legacy and have ruined football for me and 1000s of others. I want them gone, I do not care the cost, we will never get anywhere whilst these shysters occupy our club.

At this moment in time, I would just like to be sure it is Venky's, who are driving this.

I am not giving them a free pass( see my pen name lol)....but the Coventry thing makes me particularly uncomfortable....and it is urgent.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Leonard Venkhater

[Ulrich]

12 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

At this moment in time, I would just like to be sure it is Venky's, who are driving this.

I am not giving them a free pass( see my pen name lol)....but the Coventry thing makes me particularly uncomfortable....and it is urgent.

Unfortunatly I do not believe the causal 'people' can be ascertained, we would need an insider and we do not have one presently.  Venky's employed the three stooges, they employed equally shifty characters almost everytime they had the chance to hire someone and I am sure they will do so again. 

They all need to go, whether they are or are not the driving force behind this idea.  Guilty or not since the day they arrived with promises of champions league football on 5m a season, we have been in freefall and have been raped to high heaven.

How long before Ewood is a tesco's and we're playing at Chorley? 

[Ulrich]

41 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

1. Though this idea is from an employee of Venky's - this isnt their idea

2. If you (or your friends) have a spare £200m to cover existing debts - and approx £15m a season spare - go for it

In the absence of somebody with very deep pockets coming forward - we are in a bit of a pickle - as without them, I am not certain a club would exist.

Plenty of clubs have been sold with bigger debt than ours...  No I do not have 200m burning a hole in my pocket, that's another problem for another day.

Anyway your predictions for our future are happening as we speak, a slow painful death by chicken farmers, what difference does speed of demise make?

We the fans whether we like it or not allow our fears to influence our choices and this benefits the venkys as we will never be united in our cause....  

[Leonard Venkhater]

14 minutes ago, Ulrich said:

Unfortunatly I do not believe the causal 'people' can be ascertained, we would need an insider and we do not have one presently.  Venky's employed the three stooges, they employed equally shifty characters almost everytime they had the chance to hire someone and I am sure they will do so again. 

They all need to go, whether they are or are not the driving force behind this idea.  Guilty or not since the day they arrived with promises of champions league football on 5m a season, we have been in freefall and have been raped to high heaven.

How long before Ewood is a tesco's and we're playing at Chorley? 

Yes, my own sense is that it is a cancer and it needs to be cut out totally...and that the Coventry 3 are probably only(!) symptoms like Anderson, Kean, Agnew etc. Not sure if we have the surgical team available at the moment?

Sometimes, maybe, the symptoms have to be dealt with along the way?

[Crimpshrine]

58 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

1. Though this idea is from an employee of Venky's - this isnt their idea

2. If you (or your friends) have a spare £200m to cover existing debts - and approx £15m a season spare - go for it

In the absence of somebody with very deep pockets coming forward - we are in a bit of a pickle - as without them, I am not certain a club would exist.

The power of positive thinking!

Reclaim the Rovers - Venky's out

[Miller11]

4 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

The Price of Football podcast is a fascinating listen...especially this segment (43 minutes in) many parallels between Coventry & Rovers...

https://overcast.fm/+UstefRZK4/42:57

Really interesting. I suppose it just goes to show that there are different outlooks in every fanbase, and that perceptions from the outside aren’t always completely accurate.

I’ve also seen they have put out a breakdown of Forest’s recent accounts. They look quite familiar!

Interestingly though the Forest owners are seen as irresponsible and bonkers, their input appears to be very similar to Venky’s who are widely seen as supportive and benevolent.

[Herbie6590]

4 hours ago, tomphil said:

Do they have to sign off the bill of sale though or can the CEO of Blackburn Rovers, the company the land belongs to not just do it ?

Depends what the Memo & Articles of Association say with regards to the CEO’s authority. I would suggest that in properly functioning board, the proposed transaction would be minuted at a board meeting & then the CEO would sign the necessary documentation as the sale is crystallised.
Whatever our doubts over Venky’s I struggle to conceive that this can be waved through by Waggott without them ever being aware, which suggests it has their stamp of approval.

[matt83]

16 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

Depends what the Memo & Articles of Association say with regards to the CEO’s authority. I would suggest that in properly functioning board, the proposed transaction would be minuted at a board meeting & then the CEO would sign the necessary documentation as the sale is crystallised.
Whatever our doubts over Venky’s I struggle to conceive that this can be waved through by Waggott without them ever being aware, which suggests it has their stamp of approval.

Not a chance the Venkys aren’t fully all over it. It’s probably been sold to them by waggott but in the past I’m sure it’s been insinuated we can’t even get a loan player without their say so. 

[1864roverite]

1 hour ago, MarkBRFC said:

Giving them far too much credit there.

If they were to pull the plug one day, are you telling me there isn't anybody out there that could/would take us on? A club of this size and stature?

Despite what a lot of Rovers fans seem to think, the club can and will thrive in a world where Tony bloody Mowbray and Venkys have left town.

Not too sure on that score.

If Venkys weren’t putting in the money we would be well and truly Fooked!

If Venkys wanted out then they would just pull the  plug or sell to the highest bidder, not sure there is any hard evidence there have been bidders despite speculation from AN.

I wouldn’t think we would survive if they just upped and left us in the lurch, we might see BRFC a winding up case like Bury.

[Miller11]

21 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Not too sure on that score.

If Venkys weren’t putting in the money we would be well and truly Fooked!

If Venkys wanted out then they would just pull the  plug or sell to the highest bidder, not sure there is any hard evidence there have been bidders despite speculation from AN.

I wouldn’t think we would survive if they just upped and left us in the lurch, we might see BRFC a winding up case like Bury.

If Venky’s hadn’t completely mismanaged us for a decade, I doubt we’d be talking about doomsday scenarios. We were about as far from “well and truly fooked” as was possible before they rocked up.

Bury is one comparison that everyone seems to like making. It does the club a massive disservice. If the worst came to the worst, why wouldn’t we end up like QPR, Barnsley, Ipswich, Leicester, Rotherham, Leeds, Luton, Bournemouth, Portsmouth, Southampton or Crystal Palace? They’ve all been in admin in recent years. The only similarity between Rovers and Bury is geographical. We are an entirely different, and better proposition in every measurable way.

[tomphil]

53 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

Depends what the Memo & Articles of Association say with regards to the CEO’s authority. I would suggest that in properly functioning board, the proposed transaction would be minuted at a board meeting & then the CEO would sign the necessary documentation as the sale is crystallised.
Whatever our doubts over Venky’s I struggle to conceive that this can be waved through by Waggott without them ever being aware, which suggests it has their stamp of approval.

Lets hope things are monitored tighter than in Shaw's days then when amongst other things he not only signed off Bergs contract but changed the detail.

I know all football related stuff is allegedly run past them but they were supposed to be having Waggot to oversee day to day stuff on the ground in Blackburn. I presume he has certain authority as a CEO to make some decisions. 

Besides just how it is presented to them and in what context we don't know. That's why i'm praying they give it some real attention. 

[JHRover]

21 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

 

I wouldn’t think we would survive if they just upped and left us in the lurch, we might see BRFC a winding up case like Bury.

Why would we follow Bury? Would Wigan and Bolton not be more appropriate?

 

[only2garners]

2 hours ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Where are the plans for the new training complex?....

There aren't any yet. These applications are for a proof of concept to be put to the two councils to get their views on the principle of the two developments. There would be no point in employing quantity surveyors and the like at considerable cost to draw up plans for a building that might never be built.

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, Crimpshrine said:

The power of positive thinking!

Reclaim the Rovers - Venky's out

Reclaim the Rovers...I love that....I will see if my friend can design me a T-shirt!

[RevidgeBlue]

4 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Reclaim the Rovers...I love that....I will see if my friend can design me a T-shirt!

"Coventry 3 out - Protect Jack's legacy!"

[RevidgeBlue]

4 hours ago, only2garners said:

There aren't any yet. These applications are for a proof of concept to be put to the two councils to get their views on the principle of the two developments. There would be no point in employing quantity surveyors and the like at considerable cost to draw up plans for a building that might never be built.

Come on John, I realise this is the line that's been fed to you by the Club and quite possibly not your personal opinion but still!

They certainly don't seem to have minded incurring "considerable cost" in carrying out careful planning to see how many units they could possibly squeeze onto the proposed housing development and drawing up detailed plans of those do they?

How significant would the cost of  drawing a few proper plans  up of the new training centre actually be in the context of the entire scheme? Surely, if they were serious about it, and there was genuine merit to the scheme, the more detail that was provided, the more likely people would be to support it.

[only2garners]

Actually it is my opinion Simon.

I suspect any architect worth his fees can draw up a plan to fill a given plot of land with a quick plan as to how many houses you can fit on it. They will probably have a bit of software that can knock it out in minutes. It's a lot different to design a one-off building from scratch. There will be significant costs in producing the detailed building design. The houses on the other hand would I assume be designed and developed by whoever buys the land and builds them.

I have no idea why anyone wold be more likely to support the plans if they had been presented with some fancy design drawings now. The councils know what a football training building looks like, more or less, as there are already two on site. Whilst what goes inside the new one might very well be more up to date I doubt the outside will look significantly dfferent.

What is absolutely clear is that this is a proof of concept application. It could very easily be thrown out by both councils at the first attempt. Even if they get a green light to go to the next stage it will take a very long time to get full planning permission, I would expect years and there will still be no guarantees of success.

I would doubt that even the proof of concept will be sorted before the councils go into purdah ahead of the May elections.

[RevidgeBlue]

I absolutely despair. To summarise to date:

- Months of careful planning must have gone on on the quiet ascertaining the maximum potential of the proposed housing development site.

- the screening application has been sneaked in under the radar with zero consultation of either fans or local residents

- Seemingly there has been no consideration given to simply upgrading the existing training  facilities nor has this even been costed up

- the level of thought and planning that has gone into a new training centre extends to a white or red oblong superimposed onto a Google Earth map.

- to reinforce this the specification for the new training centre on the screening application  has simply been copied off that of the existing  STC and the screening application refers to the proposed new build being of "a similar scale".

- Waggott has no idea whatsoever how much the new training centre would cost.

- we have no specific confirmation the owners would meet any shortfall if needed.

- Waggott has no idea if we could configure the pitches outside on a limited space or provide the facilities required inside a single facility the size of the STC to meet existing Cat 1 Academy requirements.

- There is the obvious Coventry connection where the same protagonists attempted to sell their training ground for development.

-Waggott has told the Fans Trust that the owners have categorically NOT asked  him to sell land to raise money

- The people at Coventry even gave exactly the same non benefit for justifying the scheme as they have done here "being under the same roof".

- Neither the manager nor Waggott are able to cite one genuine advantage to the Club arising out of this scheme out or cite one specific example of how the new facilities would be better than the existing ones.

Yet some people still seem to think it could be a good idea! What more evidence do you need?