Rovers v Watford Wed 24th Feb 19:45

[davulsukur]

21 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

                       P      W    D   L      F     A      GD     PTS   Position

    2021 -       31    11    6    14    45    37    8       39          15
    2020-       31    12    8    11    43    38    5       44          12
    2019 -      31    11    10    10    42    47  -5       43          13

Absolute groundhog day, only with more regression.

[JHRover]

I see we are back to injuries being the excuse for some for these results. 11 out apparently. We need to get them back apparently. Of course we couldn't have predicted that Ayala, Williams, Holtby would spend swathes of the season out injured. And Trybull was in and out even when fit. And we signed 2 CBs in January to cope with it.

[Paul Mellelieu]

10 hours ago, Hasta said:

Dalglish built that team in 4 months, not four years. Dalglish hadn't already had several spells of going 5,6,7 games without a win under his tenure. Dalglish actually got us into the top 6.  In some of those games under Dalglish during that spell we were the better team.

It was a joke - sorta.

[perthblue02]

1 hour ago, davulsukur said:

Absolute groundhog day, only with more regression.

 

"I would rather lose them games having a go... than sitting with 10 men behind the ball playing for a draw."  TM on BBC Lancashire Sport , last night.

Obviously looking at the stats , it does seem to be working as its led to less draws and more losses.

Edited February 25, 2021 by perthblue02

[Blue blood]

9 hours ago, Wood26 said:

Rothwell, Kaminski, Tison, Reid, Smallwood, Dack, Armstrong x2, Elliott, Holtby

Quick question, what criteria are you using to define these as great signings? I presume by great, you mean better than good? And that would suggest have made a big positive impact on the club. Would that be a fair assessment? 

If that's the case I genuinely can't see how Rothwell and Holtby get on that list. Neither has hugely shaped the team, the stats and end product for both are ok at best and they have been in and out of the team. Even with blue and white tinted specs I struggle to see how that is great. Compare them to the impact that Dack has had since joining for example, or Smallwood in his first season, or Elliott this year and you see a heck of a difference. Good signings maybe, but great I think is stretching it. 

Also if we are going on what they do here rather than raw potential then am not sure that Armstrong in League 1 or Reid count as great either (assuming that we can count Armstrong twice, that seems cheating a bit (how do you spot s player twice?) Armstrong in League 1 was nowhere near as influential as say Dack or Smallwood and Reid spent most of his time shunted out wide. Hard to say either of those players had a great impact. Now Armstrong since signing permanently, my word, would agree has been a cracking buy. 

So even with a favourable outlook I really can't see how you can justify saying more than 6 top of the range signings. Tbf that's not a poor record for a manager. 

Problem is there have been some absolute clangers too, often at great expense  Gally, Bereton and Whittingham took up significant portions of the budget each year for nothing in return, their cost as well as their inability causing damage to the team. Walton cost us so many goals it was untrue. Ayala has been shocking for fitness reasons hugely contributing to our defensive issues and Harper was an utter waste of a loan. I also think all the full backs he has brought have been substandard but wouldn't quite class them as terrible as apart from Caddis on paper they looked decent moves. 

In short, I think TM has made some good buys but he is no Mark Hughes in the transfer market for us. Far too many clangers and costly ones at that for him to be classed as having done well (as oppose to decent) on that front. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

8 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

 

"I would rather lose them games having a go... than sitting with 10 men behind the ball playing for a draw."  TM on BBC Lancashire Sport , last night.

Obviously looking at the stats , it doesn't seem to be working as its led to less draws and more losses.

And that quote sums up why he needs to do one. It's all about Tony, not about the club. 

[Mattyblue]

5 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Quick question, what criteria are you using to define these as great signings? I presume by great, you mean better than good? And that would suggest have made a big positive impact on the club. Would that be a fair assessment? 

If that's the case I genuinely can't see how Rothwell and Holtby get on that list. Neither has hugely shaped the team, the stats and end product for both are ok at best and they have been in and out of the team. Even with blue and white tinted specs I struggle to see how that is great. Compare them to the impact that Dack has had since joining for example, or Smallwood in his first season, or Elliott this year and you see a heck of a difference. Good signings maybe, but great I think is stretching it. 

Also if we are going on what they do here rather than raw potential then am not sure that Armstrong in League 1 or Reid count as great either (assuming that we can count Armstrong twice, that seems cheating a bit (how do you spot s player twice?) Armstrong in League 1 was nowhere near as influential as say Dack or Smallwood and Reid spent most of his time shunted out wide. Hard to say either of those players had a great impact. Now Armstrong since signing permanently, my word, would agree has been a cracking buy. 

So even with a favourable outlook I really can't see how you can justify saying more than 6 top of the range signings. Tbf that's not a poor record for a manager. 

Problem is there have been some absolute clangers too, often at great expense  Gally, Bereton and Whittingham took up significant portions of the budget each year for nothing in return, their cost as well as their inability causing damage to the team. Walton cost us so many goals it was untrue. Ayala has been shocking for fitness reasons hugely contributing to our defensive issues and Harper was an utter waste of a loan. I also think all the full backs he has brought have been substandard but wouldn't quite class them as terrible as apart from Caddis on paper they looked decent moves. 

In short, I think TM has made some good buys but he is no Mark Hughes in the transfer market for us. Far too many clangers and costly ones at that for him to be classed as having done well (as oppose to decent) on that front. 

They are potentially decent signings, but they are so poorly coached and conditioned that we’ll only really know if someone else gets a go with them.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Mattyblue

[Blue blood]

20 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

 

"I would rather lose them games having a go... than sitting with 10 men behind the ball playing for a draw."  TM on BBC Lancashire Sport , last night.

Obviously looking at the stats , it doesn't seem to be working as its led to less draws and more losses.

Well that's the height of tactical naievity. There are times against better opposition (and according to TM that's a lot of teams) that you need to keep it tight and get something on the break. It's stupid to play better teams at their own game. Does he think this makes him sound noble? He just sounds out of his depth. 

[chaddyrovers]

16 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I see we are back to injuries being the excuse for some for these results. 11 out apparently. We need to get them back apparently. Of course we couldn't have predicted that Ayala, Williams, Holtby would spend swathes of the season out injured. And Trybull was in and out even when fit. And we signed 2 CBs in January to cope with it.

You cannot blame injuries now when you knew these players have injuries Mowbray when you sign them or had them for a couple of seasons in the Rovers squad 

Travis and Dack injuries fair enough but not injury prone players

[RoversClitheroe]

1 hour ago, perthblue02 said:

                       P      W    D   L      F     A      GD     PTS   Position

    2021 -       31    11    6    14    45    37    8       39          15
    2020-       31    12    8    11    43    38    5       44          12
    2019 -      31    11    10    10    42    47  -5       43          13

@Wood26so will all these "Great Signings" that Mowbray has made can you explain why we're not progressing? 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

22 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Well that's the height of tactical naievity. There are times against better opposition (and according to TM that's a lot of teams) that you need to keep it tight and get something on the break. It's stupid to play better teams at their own game. Does he think this makes him sound noble? He just sounds out of his depth. 

Totally agree - Watford had a front three that would scare most defences - and yet we left our defence totally isolated at times. TBH I felt sorry for our young centre halves - who did fairly well in one on one situations - but messed up some more basic defending.

TM needs to look at  successful managers - like Simeone or Mourinho. It does reaffirm the belief that TM has taken us as far as he can.

[tomphil]

Mowbray has persisted with the likes of Williams knowing he's an injury prone converted center back. Yet when he is fit he's the go to stand in man, Lenihen gets called up for Ints and puts his foot in and is first choice.  Stands to reason in the modern made of glass era he'll get plenty knocks.

Then we come to Ayala who'd hardly had any football when he signed, isn't young and has form for being out.  Holtby wouldn't be here if he wasn't fragile, Evans and Johnson are only bit part players at the best of times for similar reasons.

Mowbray knows all this better than any fan that's why he stocks the midfield and loans in defenders. He;s said it himself plenty times, bigger squad to cover these things.  So he's covered but he can't do anything with that cover and crying about players being out means those he's signed aren't good enough for what they are here for.

Either way he's responsible for the shit show this season and taking everything into account. We still should be a few points better off and certainly shouldn't be losing 5 on the bounce. In 2019 we had 1 win in 11, can't remember what he blamed all that on.

We knew though then the squad wasn't big enough or good enough to cope. TWO seasons later it still isn't yet we've only sold a keeper and replaced him with a better all round one.

Progress Tony ???  Last season it was Dack missing touted as why we didn't challenge, outright rubbish. This season i think we all know that even with a fitter squad we'd only be a few points better off.

His systems of play and methods are only tailored to varying degrees of midtable football.  Fact !

[Dan]

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It would be hugely satisfying if Waggott received the orders that he had to sack his mate tomorrow morning.

But not half as satisfying as if Pasha was following up behind with P45's for Waggott and Venus as well.

We need all the Coventry Con Men out. It wouldn’t surprise me if Maggot put his mate Bob the Builder Venus in charge until the end of the season, should he actually sack his mate. 

[Fodentinklesthetadger]

12 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

If this buffoon cannot see the defensive issues we are going down quicker than one of Preston’s finest on st Mary’s st north!

Nyambe should have been central alongside Branthwaite with Pike right back and Bell at left back.

 

Fully agree Pike is an absolute prodigy, few others I could mention in the academy that have more than enough talent, get them in the first team!

Edited February 25, 2021 by Fodentinklesthetadger
Spelling mistake

[cesus]

The whole situation screams of a bloke so comfortable in his job its untrue. He talks about Watfords £90m front line, yet can't see he is touting Armstrong as a Premier League players and has at his disposal a player who would have literally made 10+ appearances for the Premier & Champions League winners this season.

Mowbray has never sorted the defence EVER! He moans about injuries but gave a long term contract to a crock, who literally spent a pre-season with us then pissed off to the middle east to whore himself out to try and get more money. It didn't work out and the shiny contract was still there waiting like idiots.

If a manager was worried for his job he would be playing our kids in a crisis yet he is getting other clubs kids in and given them game time. Why the hell wouldn't you use your own, especially when the loaned in kids aren't much kop!!

This is a nightmare!!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

10 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Odd isn't it?

0 points of of 15 and some people are worried DJ could do worse!

It's not  about the last 5 games. Our form has been awful since before Christmas. Going out of the FA Cup without a murmur to the mighty Doncaster at home told me all I needed to know about our prospects for 2021.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

10 hours ago, Wood26 said:

Rothwell, Kaminski, Tison, Reid, Smallwood, Dack, Armstrong x2, Elliott, Holtby

Great signings are people we'll be talking about in 10 years time. Dack, Armstrong for definite, Reed, Tiso and Elliot, probably for the all the wrong reasons. Kaminski, Mm, not more than we will be talking about Raya in my opinion. Smallwood and Rothwell, not really. Holtby ? only in terms of all the crocks we've signed previously.

What about all the shite he's signed ? I haven't time to list them all.

[Bbrovers2288]

12 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Great signings are people we'll be talking about in 10 years time. Dack, Armstrong for definite, Reed, Tiso and Elliot, probably for the all the wrong reasons. Kaminski, Mm, not more than we will be talking about Raya in my opinion. Smallwood and Rothwell, not really. Holtby ? only in terms of all the crocks we've signed previously.

What about all the shite he's signed ? I haven't time to list them all.

Still confused who tiso is, which tells me all I need to know about whoever he is being a great player for us.

No doubt on loan which barely counts anyway.

smallwood- your having a laugh, so limited it’s unreal 

[Bbrovers2288]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

You cannot blame injuries now when you knew these players have injuries Mowbray when you sign them or had them for a couple of seasons in the Rovers squad 

Travis and Dack injuries fair enough but not injury prone players

You have gone full 360 now chaddy, I’m glad you can see your mistakes backing him. I remember telling you at least two seasons ago mowbray was no good

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Bbrovers2288 said:

Still confused who tiso is, which tells me all I need to know about whoever he is being a great player for us.

No doubt on loan which barely counts anyway.

smallwood- your having a laugh, so limited it’s unreal 

I presume he means the young centre half we had on loan from City before the latest young centre half we've got on loan from City. In my opinion average managers get 50% of their transfers right, good managers get 75% right. Not many get every signing right, even Kenny signed Richard Witschge.  By any measure Mowbray is well below average regarding signings.

The Brererton and Gallagher signings being particularly poor.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

7 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

You have gone full 360 now chaddy, I’m glad you can see your mistakes backing him. I remember telling you at least two seasons ago mowbray was no good

No point berating Chaddy. I thought we needed a new manager after the promotion season but I would probably have been in a minority of one. The writing was on the wall even then for those with eyes that see.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Waggy76]

,9

45 minutes ago, Dan said:

We need all the Coventry Con Men out. It wouldn’t surprise me if Maggot put his mate Bob the Builder Venus in charge until the end of the season, should he actually sack his mate. 

Quite right , all 3 have to go today , worringly its 1020 and all 3 are still in situ...

Maybe the owners are watching the cricket or they have no idea of our current plight ?

The latter is more likely,,

 

[Waggy76]

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

No point berating Chaddy. I thought we needed a new manager after the promotion season but I would probably have been in a minority of one. The writing was on the wall even then for those with eyes that see.

You are right , my opinion was after the first season back up or even the Brentford debacle ...

[AllRoverAsia]

5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

No point berating Chaddy. I thought we needed a new manager after the promotion season but I would probably have been in a minority of one. The writing was on the wall even then for those with eyes that see.

I thought we needed a new manager after the promotion relegation season

[Blue blood]

5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

No point berating Chaddy. I thought we needed a new manager after the promotion season but I would probably have been in a minority of one. The writing was on the wall even then for those with eyes that see.

I wasn't convinced by TM at all in our promotion season.  That said he did get us promoted which imo gave hin the chance to have a crack in the Championship even though I had reservations, especially given Venkys record of recruitment. That season increasingly convinced me however that he wasn't that good a manager at all.