Summer transfer window 2021.

[islander200]

8 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Just my view but I would rather spend this summer on the reinforcements we need to ensure we can at least survive in the Championship, and deal with any consequences of overspending next summer when we have assets on the books we can sell in a better climate than not spend anything under the guise of FFP rules, get relegated and then be really stuffed.

Forget about points deductions - they don't happen for overspending - see Derby, Reading, QPR. And before anyone says 'Sheffield Wednesday' their points deduction was for fiddling their accounts to try and avoid trouble.

This is of course assuming that FFP is the reason we aren't spending. I think it is more likely Venkys have just spent enough and are fed up again so nothing can happen.

If FFP is the issue then again I raise why Millwall, PNE, Barnsley, Luton and just about everyone else in this divison can compete, outperform us with much lower losses and avoid FFP trouble.

Mismanagement is the word. Does anyone pay the price for this and get sacked?

Derby are under a transfer embargo as are Reading.

Derby will most likely go down due to it.

I'm correct in thinking you want Mowbray out?So why do you want him to be given more money to get us even into more debt?

Your last paragraph is correct it is mismanagement by both the people on the ground and Venkys.

The club needs to become more self sustained, we can't keep running our wage bill at 180% to our turnover.

One of the main  reasons we are in this mess is because we have given ridiculous contracts to ageing or substandard players with little or no resale value so I don't see what value there is in giving Mowbray more money to spend when most likely the players he brings in will be ageing journeymen with no chance of them taking us to the next level but we will be left stuck with them for 2 or 3 years or end up paying them off.Paying off player's has cost us a scary amount since in the championship

The club's you mentioned in your second to last paragraph,don't spend the money we do on transfers and don't have the massive wage bill either.

If we were spending similar amounts to them and finishing in the same position as those clubs then you would be on here moaning that ,"our billionaire owners" don't spend enough 

 

[phili]

14 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Is it not £39m over 3 seasons?

Apologies £39m over 3 years, but due to Covid it is a 4 year cycle with years 3 and 4 averaged between them.

Venky's had to inject £20m directly into the club through a share issue due to only allowing £5m a season losses if owners did not do share issues to cover losses and covered them through loans from a parent company.

We are still way above the allowed allowances, although Uefa etc are now looking at scrapping FFP and moving towards Wage to Turnover Ratios instead to govern the sport.

[Roverthechimp]

50 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

As an admin, should you not be a bit more careful with what you share here? 

I'd have banned you for that question 😈😉

 

 

 

 

 

(Joke just in case anyone needs it pointing out to them)

[1864roverite]

I am sure that i have read that as a result of the last 18 months exceptions are to be made and/or offsets made as a result of the loss of income from match days including commercial, hospitality and match day income based on an average over the last 3 seasons which might just have a slightly positive impact on our "losses"

[JHRover]

3 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Derby are under a transfer embargo as are Reading.

Derby will most likely go down due to it.

I'm correct in thinking you want Mowbray out?So why do you want him to be given more money to get us even into more debt?

Your last paragraph is correct it is mismanagement by both the people on the ground and Venkys.

The club needs to become more self sustained, we can't keep running our wage bill at 180% to our turnover.

One of the main  reasons we are in this mess is because we have given ridiculous contracts to ageing or substandard players with little or no resale value so I don't see what value there is in giving Mowbray more money to spend when most likely the players he brings in will be ageing journeymen with no chance of them taking us to the next level but we will be left stuck with them for 2 or 3 years or end up paying them off.Paying off player's has cost us a scary amount since in the championship

The club's you mentioned in your second to last paragraph,don't spend the money we do on transfers and don't have the massive wage bill either.

If we were spending similar amounts to them and finishing in the same position as those clubs then you would be on here moaning that ,"our billionaire owners" don't spend enough 

 

Derby are favourites for relegation because Mel Morris is desperate to get shut of them and has scaled back all his funding after 4-5 years of huge spending and failure to get promoted. He's also had health issues. They've had at least 2 takeovers fall through, so he's doing the bare minimum to keep them ticking over until a takeover gets sorted. All sounds very familiar to what is going on here except he's man enough to admit he's had enough and is trying to get out and sell them, whereas we are stuck with Venkys and their suicidal management of the club and they won't let us go. They've also got a safety net of 20,000 fans a week turning up and won't be selling off their academy.

Yes i do want Mowbray out. Of course I should have started my post by saying the first thing we should have done going into the summer was to remove this management team and then back a new manager.

The cost of relegation to League One is greater than any FFP sanction. A transfer embargo would be no worse than what we have now - which seems to be a self imposed embargo. We could live with an embargo if before it we stocked the squad up with good players on solid contracts that we could sell if needed. We can't do that at the moment because we've allowed our assets to run their contracts down. Nothing has been learned.

 

[Roverthechimp]

1 minute ago, 1864roverite said:

I am sure that i have read that as a result of the last 18 months exceptions are to be made and/or offsets made as a result of the loss of income from match days including commercial, hospitality and match day income based on an average over the last 3 seasons which might just have a slightly positive impact on our "losses"

I don't think the difference would come close covering Ayalas contract alone - never mind the rest...

[roversfan99]

19 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

I've not made up one rumour.

You've specifically asked for a source on numerous occasions which is just a ridiculous question as no one would ever give their source surely? 😂

I think everyone is open minded to hearing genuine rumours with substance but often yours are just "rumours say that" or at their most specific, "someone on twitter has said." And have also avoided questions as to where the rumours have come from, if a rumour is shared, people are naturally going to want to know as much as possible about its source as to be able to ascertain how likely and believable it is. How many times has Mowbray been about to be sacked for example?

Totally vague rumours are totally pointless, surely they are only useful if there is at least a bit of meat on the bones. If it is someone on twitter/facebook, copy the tweet/post, screenshot, at least mention the name. If it is some sort of super hidden source that cant be named that someone knows personally, perhaps a member of staff then at least say that and it is up to everyone to believe it or not. Much of the time, the rumours I think are just rumours already within the public domain with assumptions added to make them ITK. 

This isnt about J*B's rumour about FFP by the way, as there was a source there.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Well between numerous rumours and predictions that never happen and now saying we are under extreme risk of FFP without even knowing where you read it....

He can't really be accused of breaking any confidences when it usually never happens anyway 🤣

[tomphil]

Why do we even have a Chief Executive ?

Last time we fell foul it was partly put down to not having anyone proper overseeing things for Venkys here in Blackburn.  Since then they've added Waggot to the payroll and the phantom man of the shadows.

Plus there is Mr Stability I build football clubs, defenders are coming, we are building for the top 6 Mowbray.  So why do we end up in such a mess again ?   Plus Cheston how much have that little lot cost the club over the last few years ?

And for what, mid / lower midtable finishes, a 12 million pointless investment scheme and another high paid crock on the books just when we've managed to get rid of a few others.

Every ###### one of them should be removed as soon as possible.  I hope these cost cutting plans include that and we just have to somehow get through this season. Then a new broom.

[Crimpshrine]

53 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

So, guess work, as I said. 

Mike Cheston confirmed we were in trouble months ago - it's not guesswork

Edited August 3, 2021 by Crimpshrine
spelling

[islander200]

3 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

Mike Cheston confirmed we were in trouble months ago - it's not guesswork

Well they should have invited offers for Armstrong last January then instead of deluding themselves we had a chance of promotion or that he was going to sign a new deal 

 

[J*B]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Well between numerous rumours and predictions that never happen and now saying we are under extreme risk of FFP without even knowing where you read it....

You’re clearly struggling to understand how these things work. I was told by a senior club employee (that I obviously can’t name) that as of Tuesday last week, they where expecting one in and one out by the end of the week. That didn’t materialise, I’d guess that’s because Reach went to WBA. 

Nobody here knows anything as fact because it’s only official when it’s official, things move all the time. One minute we’re signing Reach and selling Rothwell, the next Reach has signed for WBA so we aren’t signing anyone.  I don’t believe Mercer when he’s talking about administration - not because I think he’s totally making it up, but because I can’t personally see it. That doesn’t mean he’s making it up, things change all the time and ‘sources’ are often wrong as well. We welcome people passing on what they’ve been told here. Even if it turns out to be wrong. 

[tomphil]

4 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

Mike Cheston confirmed we were in trouble months ago - it's not guesswork

Shaw told everybody who'd listen last time we were heading for embargo. Probably a similar amount of time beforehand.

Seems to me that the Vs accountants like heading this way because it forces the issues of cost cutting and player sales.

A nice blame deflector.

[Bigdoggsteel]

10 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

Mike Cheston confirmed we were in trouble months ago - it's not guesswork

To say it's incoming anytime soon is guess work 

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 minutes ago, J*B said:

You’re clearly struggling to understand how these things work. I was told by a senior club employee (that I obviously can’t name) that as of Tuesday last week, they where expecting one in and one out by the end of the week. That didn’t materialise, I’d guess that’s because Reach went to WBA. 

Nobody here knows anything as fact because it’s only official when it’s official, things move all the time. One minute we’re signing Reach and selling Rothwell, the next Reach has signed for WBA so we aren’t signing anyone.  I don’t believe Mercer when he’s talking about administration - not because I think he’s totally making it up, but because I can’t personally see it. That doesn’t mean he’s making it up, things change all the time and ‘sources’ are often wrong as well. We welcome people passing on what they’ve been told here. Even if it turns out to be wrong. 

Fair enough, but how did the one out not happen? 

[Paul Mani]

4 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Shaw told everybody who'd listen last time we were heading for embargo. Probably a similar amount of time beforehand.

Seems to me that the Vs accountants like heading this way because it forces the issues of cost cutting and player sales.

A nice blame deflector.

I don’t get the blame deflector argument. It’s true that they can’t seem to pick the right manager but it’s also true that they do pay the bills and the only time the budget gets cut is when FFP bites. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Venkys were bothered either way and it was Waggot and Cheston enforcing the spend reductions to deal with FFP.

I do know one thing about Venkys. Whether it’s £10m or £50m they have to put in it doesn’t really matter. It’s chump change for them when you look into their wealth.

[phili]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Fair enough, but how did the one out not happen? 

O~ffer did not meet Venky's valuation. They have final say on every departure.

[phili]

1 minute ago, Paul Mani said:

I don’t get the blame deflector argument. It’s true that they can’t seem to pick the right manager but it’s also true that they do pay the bills and the only time the budget gets cut is when FFP bites. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Venkys were bothered either way and it was Waggot and Cheston enforcing the spend reductions to deal with FFP.

I do know one thing about Venkys. Whether it’s £10m or £50m they have to put in it doesn’t really matter. It’s chump change for them when you look into their wealth.

A friend did look into their wealth once and came back with a family fortune of around £3 billion. Which would be in top 5 wealthiest owners in the championship with the richest being the Coates family at Stoke City.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 minutes ago, phili said:

O~ffer did not meet Venky's valuation. They have final say on every departure.

So then why even say he was going if an offer wasn't accepted?? 

😂

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Shaw told everybody who'd listen last time we were heading for embargo. Probably a similar amount of time beforehand.

Seems to me that the Vs accountants like heading this way because it forces the issues of cost cutting and player sales.

A nice blame deflector.

Then why agree to ridiculous contract extensions and transfer fees in the first place?

I'm not taking away from the fact they are shit owners but they have been stung many many times when it comes to signing players.

They know nothing about football, they trust the people they put in place.If you were the owner of a football club and the manager and CEO who you trust kept asking for player contract renewals( Mulgrew,Bennett, Smallwood etc)then after a month or two those players hardly play anymore then would you not be sceptical about agreeing to future demands?

It isn't the owners who decides who gets a new contract, who we pay a transfer fee for they just sign it off.

The biggest issue with the owners is they won't put competent people in place not because they are penny pinching and tight with finance because they have been far from tight with finance.

Even in the early days..etuthu, best, Murphy,the Portuguese contingent, these were expensive deals for  them and us and we got badly stung with them.

Even in the summer and with the state around the ground I refuse to believe the owners wouldnt have signed off on the couple of grand it would have cost to give the surroundings at the ground a tidy.I find it far more plausible that it was the people on the ground trying to keep outgoings as minimal as possible to show themselves in a good light to the owners after the failures on the football pitch.I don't think the venky family have any idea that around the ground was full of weeds and is in need of general maintenance,they leave that sort of stuff to the people on the ground

 

 

[Paul Mani]

1 minute ago, phili said:

A friend did look into their wealth once and came back with a family fortune of around £3 billion. Which would be in top 5 wealthiest owners in the championship with the richest being the Coates family at Stoke City.

 

That £3bn is probably closer to £5bn now. They aren’t cribbing about 20-30m. No way…

Over the years I’ve spoken to several people who either played / coached were present in the Venkys regime and EVERY single one had differing opinions but agreed that all you ever had to do was ask for money and it came…they phrase they use is “all you have to do is ask”

So I don’t believe Venkys are pushing the cuts or the sale of the training ground. That’s coming from those trying to justify their job working within the rules around ffp etc.

[Paul Mani]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

So then why even say he was going if an offer wasn't accepted?? 

😂

Mate, come on….the feeling in the club was that one would be leaving and another incoming. There are many many things that can change that situation.

Trust me, no one comes on here with anything they hear to Willy wag. 9/10 times you get shot down but you know there are people who do want to know.

I can tell you that 100% that in April, not one of the coaching staff expected the Manager to keep his job. I said as much. The rumours and information was that he would be replaced and even that replacements had been lined up and were being spoken about openly. Then Venkys do a U-turn. Was it because they lost their nerve? Did the candidate they want back out? Does FFP mean we can’t afford to sack Mowbray? Who knows That’s their prerogative!

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Mate, come on….the feeling in the club was that one would be leaving and another incoming. There are many many things that can change that situation.

Trust me, no one comes on here with anything they hear to Willy wag. 9/10 times you get shot down but you know there are people who do want to know.

I can tell you that 100% that in April, not one of the coaching staff expected the Manager to keep his job. I said as much. The rumours and information was that he would be replaced and even that replacements had been lined up and were being spoken about openly. Then Venkys do a U-turn. Was it because they lost their nerve? Did the candidate they want back out? Does FFP mean we can’t afford to sack Mowbray? Who knows That’s their prerogative!

The feeling , yet no bids had been accepted

Nor did anyone on here,  you don't need an inside track or to be ITK to have thought that. It was unprecedented keeping a manager on a run like that these days. 

I don't think anyone knows what Venkys are planning or thinking. That includes staff at the club. So rather than a 180 been done (which it could have been) I just don't believe anyone knows and 2 and 2 was just put together. 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[RoverKyle]

Given the lack of transfer rumours, potential lack of funds for any permanent signings and just general malaise in here, I'm going to try and start up a conversation about potential signings...

Who do people feel like we should be targeting on loan from these so called big Premier League clubs?

[bluebruce]

3 minutes ago, RoverKyle said:

Given the lack of transfer rumours, potential lack of funds for any permanent signings and just general malaise in here, I'm going to try and start up a conversation about potential signings...

Who do people feel like we should be targeting on loan from these so called big Premier League clubs?

I'll be honest mate, it's hard to care right now. Aside from how bad things are at the club in general, the fact we are told there may be no permanent incomings means that even if we get a few pearlers, it won't be enough for anything more than mid table and repeating the hunt to develop another club's youngsters again next summer.