Summer transfer window 2021.

[Bigdoggsteel]

24 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

He wont be playing PL football he wont even be a bench warmer so if he wants first team football then he will have to adjust his ambition and salary expectations

He's on at least double our highest earner. If he leaves, he ain't coming here. 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Middlesbrough just signed an Argentine midfielder.

When was their FFP firesale? Must have missed it.

Their average attendance of just shy of 24,000 spectators pre-COVID is basically double our weekly income. Gives them a lot of FFP wiggle room.

[booth]

7 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Snatch there bloody arm off

Why? We wouldn't see much of that £15m if any, and Idah is another young player with potential who hasn't scored many goals professionally and under Mowbray probably won't feature for another two years anyway when he'll be slowly introduced to the wing.

[Bigdoggsteel]

It's good a bidding war has started for Armstrong. If we got Idah and £8 million left after Newcastle's cut, you would have to take that. Especially the £8 million was given to someone who knew what they were doing and what players they wanted for their system 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Didn't realise JRC was injured again 

Not good. Not good at all. Very, very worrying. The guy just cannot stay fit 

[roversfan99]

20 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He's on at least double our highest earner. If he leaves, he ain't coming here. 

Do you think that Idah will be on so much considering that he has never established himself fully as a first teamer, presuming that would be £20-30k+?

17 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Their average attendance of just shy of 24,000 spectators pre-COVID is basically double our weekly income. Gives them a lot of FFP wiggle room.

Isn't ticket income only a fraction of overall income though? And indeed with Covid, surely that would affect them more than us?

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Didn't realise JRC was injured again 

Not good. Not good at all. Very, very worrying. The guy just cannot stay fit 

Still not fit after his injury at Wycombe last season. Having him, Johnson, Ayala and Davenport all so injury prone within such a small senior squad is really ominous.

[JHRover]

18 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Their average attendance of just shy of 24,000 spectators pre-COVID is basically double our weekly income. Gives them a lot of FFP wiggle room.

I remember the heady days when we came down to this division and our crowds were the same as Middlesbrough's. That was when they had our manager.

They were also down to the teens when Woodgate was taking them down. It bounced back with a decent managerial appointment.

Now we're down to 5,000 season ticket holders.

See how this works? Sob stories and excuses yet most of it self inflicted. Why don't we do something about it?

[JBiz]

7 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I remember the heady days when we came down to this division and our crowds were the same as Middlesbrough's. That was when they had our manager.

They were also down to the teens when Woodgate was taking them down. It bounced back with a decent managerial appointment.

Now we're down to 5,000 season ticket holders.

See how this works? Sob stories and excuses yet most of it self inflicted. Why don't we do something about it?

JHR what do you suggest would work?

Owners write debt off? Manager replaced by Mourinho? 50m war chest?

 

[Inta Beaver]

16 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Didn't realise JRC was injured again 

Not good. Not good at all. Very, very worrying. The guy just cannot stay fit 

He broke a bone in his foot against Wycombe, yes he is out again but it’s a bit different from a muscle strain

[Bigdoggsteel]

22 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Do you think that Idah will be on so much considering that he has never established himself fully as a first teamer, presuming that would be £20-30k+?

Isn't ticket income only a fraction of overall income though? And indeed with Covid, surely that would affect them more than us?

Still not fit after his injury at Wycombe last season. Having him, Johnson, Ayala and Davenport all so injury prone within such a small senior squad is really ominous.

We were talking about Hugill

I have no idea what Idah would be on to be honest 

[bluebruce]

42 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's good a bidding war has started for Armstrong. If we got Idah and £8 million left after Newcastle's cut, you would have to take that. Especially the £8 million was given to someone who knew what they were doing and what players they wanted for their system 

Sadly I doubt we would see much added to the kitty even from 8m. It all has the vibe of the taps have been turned off and attempting to avoid an embargo next year (which, I mean, if you can't spent anything anyway, you almost may as well be in an embargo?).

30 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Didn't realise JRC was injured again 

Not good. Not good at all. Very, very worrying. The guy just cannot stay fit 

Doubt it helps that Mowbray rushes him back as soon as possible every time, even when we had perfectly fine alternatives.

Edited August 5, 2021 by bluebruce

[JHRover]

14 minutes ago, JBiz said:

JHR what do you suggest would work?

Owners write debt off? Manager replaced by Mourinho? 50m war chest?

 

Just run the club properly would be a start. Employ competent people and let them run the club, treat fans with an ounce of respect, sack a failed manager, that sort of thing.

[Exiled_Rover]

15 minutes ago, JBiz said:

JHR what do you suggest would work?

Owners write debt off? Manager replaced by Mourinho? 50m war chest?

 

Hire a manager who doesn't constantly remind us that Sutton and Shearer were years ago and how every week we're facing a massive club that we can't possibly hope to compete with.

That'd be a start. If he doesn't play turgid football too that'd be a nice bonus.

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, JHRover said:

Well it is to do with Covid. Firstly because our losses are much higher than they would have been without Covid - surely you accept that?

And secondly because FFP rules were relaxed so that costs and lost revenues directly attributable to the pandemic could be claimed as an exemption - so all this talk about having no fans for 18 months doesn't contribute to calculations.

The wage bill has been slashed over the last few months. Selling Armstrong won't change that unless he isn't replaced either in which case we might as well give up.

Lots of clubs have high wages to turnover. Preston were at 160% in the last figures yet I don't see them offloading half their squad and ending up in dire straits.

I'll be the first to slag Mowbray off but he hasn't spent £20 million in transfer fees. Off the top of my head he's had Brereton £7 million, Gallagher £5 million, Armstrong £2 million and then smaller ones like Kaminski, Davenport and Pickering for a few hundred grand each. So more like £15 million or so net spend. That is good backing and more importantly he hasn't had to sell anyone and has had time in the job to do it as he likes without instability. But since 2019 we've actually spent only a few hundred grand here and there. Lets not make out as though we've been on a spending spree.

I'm not really interested in the reasons for selling Rhodes. The more important point is what we did afterwards and what we can learn from that. The fact is the money disappeared and we got relegated. I don't want that to happen again.

well no Cos Covid affect will be the club accounts for 20-21 season not the latest accounts which are for April 2019 to March 2020 so we don't have the impact on the club with covid yet.  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00053482/filing-history/MzMwNjA2MTkyOGFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

But the wage bill went up last season as we have 31 players in the squad and we know the season before the wage bill went up. 

Yes the wage bill has been cut but compare to our turnover still too high and will always require ownership money investing to cover the losses. 

I don't see Preston paying the wages we do or the transfer fees of 7 million for a player.

Mowbray has spent around 17 millions in players bought then add loans fees for a few players then the wages we pay on transfers in the 3 years.  He hasn't been forced to sell any players he didn't want to be. He has had great backing in terms of fees being paid and wages. So cos of his failure to get us promotion last seasons means cutbacks in the wages paid out and transfers fees will have to happened. 

We didn't go down cos of Selling Rhodes. We went down cos of Coyle appointment. 

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Sadly I doubt we would see much added to the kitty even from 8m. It all has the vibe of the taps have been turned off and attempting to avoid an embargo next year (which, I mean, if you can't spent anything anyway, you almost may as well be in an embargo?).

Doubt it helps that Mowbray rushes him back as soon as possible every time, even when we had perfectly fine alternatives.

To be fair, his current injury was a broken bone in a game after an international break.

[tomphil]

When did boro fans have Venkys to deal with ?

One of the best local owners in the division up there they haven't had all out war with a foriegn conglomerate.

I love how people just leave out facts then make out as if 10k Rovers fans upped and left because we don't win every week.

By the way, Boro were getting 13/14k when the local hero was weaving his magic as manager.  Maybe that is a contributing factor instead of the bad bad fans tiresome line of blame.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Isn't ticket income only a fraction of overall income though? And indeed with Covid, surely that would affect them more than us?

It's quite a large fraction of income, especially in seasons with no major 1st team sales. The team with just shy of 24,000 bums on seats is always going to have a better Wages/Turnover % than the team with 8,000/9,000 bums on seats.

There's other factors, such as big wages in Assombalonga & Fletcher off the books this summer. But in general, the teams with the biggest crowds are the ones with the most wiggle room.

If and when Armstrong goes for a decent sized fee, next summer, we'll have some more wiggle room. And whenever there's been wiggle room, the Venky's have spent, more or less.

[roverandout]

I remember when kean was sacked.  There was a huge rush for last minute season tickets.  I was one of them. All it takes is the right appointment to have a few thousand return.  Or maybe its past that point compared to 9 years ago

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

Middlesbrough just signed an Argentine midfielder.

When was their FFP firesale? Must have missed it.

I thought you would bring up Boro spending money on a player of 5 million pounds but what you have overlooked is the money they have spent and recieved from transfers. 

So here is a quickly breakdown of that for the last 4 season

20-21 season. transfer spent 2.7 million. transfer received 400k

19-20 season. transfer spent 3.1 million transfer received 12.5 million

18-19 season. transfer spent 19 million transfer received 43 million

17-18 season transfer spent 50 million transfer received 48 million 

So they have spent about 75 million in transfer fees spent but received 102 million pounds so that profit of 27 million and FFP rules aren't a problem for them like us.  Plus they have double our attendance each game

[islander200]

12 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Just run the club properly would be a start. Employ competent people and let them run the club, treat fans with an ounce of respect, sack a failed manager, that sort of thing.

All this I agree with.Its the funding part I don't agree with you over  and I do think the owners are willing to put money in.

 

 

 

[Mattyblue]

Pretty sure in 2019/2020 (prior to March, obviously) their average gates had dropped to around 17/18,000

[JBiz]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Just run the club properly would be a start. Employ competent people and let them run the club, treat fans with an ounce of respect, sack a failed manager, that sort of thing.

All of those “issues” are subjective. I don’t feel disrespected? Disappointed in last years results? Yea definitely but there is no guarantee in anyone signed or bought. That includes staff too; surely you’ve more idea of who these potential staff people should be? 

5 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Hire a manager who doesn't constantly remind us that Sutton and Shearer were years ago and how every week we're facing a massive club that we can't possibly hope to compete with.

That'd be a start. If he doesn't play turgid football too that'd be a nice bonus.

Constantly remind us? If ate soup once in 4 years, would that be constant? Apologies if he has said this more than once, I can only recall one article.

Style of football too - massively subjective. I actually preferred our style last year than the Danny Graham / Dack axis of long balls.

Results matter more though. I’d take Dyche in a heartbeat, but I don’t watch football to “coo” over effort/defensive organisation.

What / who are these magic wand solutions to all our worries lads?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

Pretty sure in 2019/2020 (prior to March, obviously) their average gates had dropped to around 17/18,000

Their gate has dropped a little, but FFP isn't a one year thing, it works over 3-year periods. 

[JHRover]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

So they have spent about 75 million in transfer fees spent but received 102 million pounds so that profit of 27 million and FFP rules aren't a problem for them like us.  Plus they have double our attendance each game

Thanks for the research. 

I'm not going down the attendances road again. It makes me angry how oblivious you are to how self inflicted our issues are.

Of course Middlesbrough get more fans than us. Not because of Mowbray's narrative that they are a giant football club but just through competent management and not operating disgracefully like this club does. 

We've made a profit since 2019 on player trading and if Armstrong is sold it will be substantial. 

So why do we need to release half the squad and can't even sign free agents?

Venky taps are off folks. They've given up on St Mowbray but don't have the interest, balls or cash to fire him. 

[rigger]

6 minutes ago, JBiz said:

All of those “issues” are subjective. I don’t feel disrespected? Disappointed in last years results? Yea definitely but there is no guarantee in anyone signed or bought. That includes staff too; surely you’ve more idea of who these potential staff people should be? 

Constantly remind us? If ate soup once in 4 years, would that be constant? Apologies if he has said this more than once, I can only recall one article.

Style of football too - massively subjective. I actually preferred our style last year than the Danny Graham / Dack axis of long balls.

Results matter more though. I’d take Dyche in a heartbeat, but I don’t watch football to “coo” over effort/defensive organisation.

What / who are these magic wand solutions to all our worries lads?

Depends how big the bowl was.