Summer transfer window 2021.

[tomphil]

9 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Spot on. Truth be told these clubs - United, Liverpool, City, Everton - are looking for one thing for their promising youngsters and that's regular game time at a decent level of football to aid their development and give them what they won't get playing for their u23s every week. They aren't going to feature in their first team squads nor any other PL clubs so the next best thing is minutes in the rough and tumble of the Championship - ultra competitive and almost a PL 2 these days.

You don't need to be well connected or have particular principles to benefit from this - just indicate an agreement to ensure these players aren't wasted and do get regular game time, and don't burn your bridges by taking a kid and then never playing them.

Some Championship clubs won't be willing or able to make that commitment because they use loans to fill gaps or add depth and see these kids as people to add competition or fill in for injuries, but at good old Rovers we see the loan market as a cheap and convenient way to build a squad for the season - regularly having no alternative options in key positions such as CB.

These managers like Guardiola and Klopp will see that and see we need these lads and of course will be happy to send them here - just up the road - and cover nearly all their wages in doing so. It isn't a financial exercise for them and they don't care about the money - it is all about player development. At Rovers it is a financial exercise because it avoids the need to issue contracts or pay transfer/signing on fees.

It would be the same anywhere else if they were offering to use these players every week.

We do benefit from location to some degree but so do others.

But Mowbray seems to treat this as some sort of feather in his cap that he has special contacts and connections when really it isn't the case.

 

 

I wonder how much of it was down to Stuart Harvey ?

Obviously the manager has to agree to use these guys but i'd have thought most of the groundwork is done by the recruitment dept.

[Crimpshrine]

The trouble with loan deals is that they rarely benefit us in the long run and we have to rebuild every season.

I remember when Harvey Elliott made that cockup against Reading that lead to their goal, one commentator said - "that's why players of his age go out on loan - to learn from their mistakes".

We live with the mistakes and the parent club benefits from the experience gained.

Obviously, Elliot made also made a great contribution for us last season but in general the point stands - no long term gain for the club. I would much rather play one of our youngsters even if they are not as good.  

[tomphil]

5 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

The trouble with loan deals is that they rarely benefit us in the long run and we have to rebuild every season.

I remember when Harvey Elliott made that cockup against Reading that lead to their goal, one commentator said - "that's why players of his age go out on loan - to learn from their mistakes".

We live with the mistakes and the parent club benefits from the experience gained.

Obviously, Elliot made also made a great contribution for us last season but in general the point stands - no long term gain for the club. I would much rather play one of our youngsters even if they are not as good.  

Problem is we are that lightweight that we need these kids with bits of quality to help keep our heads above water.

Could be argued that last season might have been a bigger mess without Elliots contributions. Season before Tosin helped us to midtable, relying soley on our kids in this div is a v dangerous game imo.

[Crimpshrine]

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

Problem is we are that lightweight that we need these kids with bits of quality to help keep our heads above water.

Could be argued that last season might have been a bigger mess without Elliots contributions. Season before Tosin helped us to midtable, relying soley on our kids in this div is a v dangerous game imo.

That's true enough.

I guess the problem is summed up in the phrase "keeping our heads above water". If we needed loans to help in the final push for promotion then there is a more obvious benefit.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

I remember seeing him play against us for Hull when on loan there and thought he was pretty good. On a free that's a good signing for Blackpool. Plus, that 1.5 was the initial fee rising to 4.5m with add-ons. 

He played against our U23's a few months ago for Everton. It was on youtube so probably still there. Looked far too good for that level and led our young LB a merry dance. 

Blackpool have signed 4 already. Nobbers 2 or 3. 

[rigger]

19 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

He played against our U23's a few months ago for Everton. It was on youtube so probably still there. Looked far too good for that level and led our young LB a merry dance. 

Blackpool have signed 4 already. Nobbers 2 or 3. 

And all of them could be shit, all signings are a gamble.  

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

3 hours ago, rigger said:

It maybe a blessing in disguise, if it is preventing us making poor signings. Not that I am saying the Blackpool signing is a poor one.

 

Just now, rigger said:

And all of them could be shit, all signings are a gamble.  

You seem to be missing the point. 

[rigger]

4 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

 

You seem to be missing the point. 

So what is, the point that I am missing ?

Edited June 25, 2021 by rigger

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, rigger said:

So what is, the point that I am missing ?

It's in the original post you quoted. 

[rigger]

1 minute ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

It's in the original post you quoted. 

If I didn't get it the first time round, I am not going to get it now. So will you explain it to me.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

10 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Blackpool have signed an Everton player on a free called Josh Bowler. Everton got him when he was young for about £1.5m. He's an AM who can play on the wing. Would have been perfect for us as he's looks a good player and he's early 20's so would be the perfect age to develop. 

It's a worry if the embargo is preventing us making signings. 

 

 

Just now, rigger said:

If I didn't get it the first time round, I am not going to get it now. So will you explain it to me.

 

[rigger]

12 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

 

 

But is the embargo (if it exists) preventing us making signing. Or is it that the budget is preventing us making signings. I doubt if you or I are privy to the answers.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, rigger said:

But is the embargo (if it exists) preventing us making signing. Or is it that the budget is preventing us making signings. I doubt if you or I are privy to the answers.

At least you understand the issue now. 

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Crimpshrine said:

The trouble with loan deals is that they rarely benefit us in the long run and we have to rebuild every season.

I remember when Harvey Elliott made that cockup against Reading that lead to their goal, one commentator said - "that's why players of his age go out on loan - to learn from their mistakes".

We live with the mistakes and the parent club benefits from the experience gained.

Obviously, Elliot made also made a great contribution for us last season but in general the point stands - no long term gain for the club. I would much rather play one of our youngsters even if they are not as good.  

Loans should be used as the cherry on top - bolstering your team for a promotion push with a quality youngster that you'd have absolutely no chance of signing traditionally i.e. Mount, C. Gallagher, Elliot et al. 

We use it as an integral part of our squad building exercise i.e. Turnbull, Douglas. 

It's a criminal mismanagement of resources, but that's ol'Tone. We helped City, Everton and Liverpool out last season and finished mid table. We stunted the development of several of our own prospects to do so. 

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Problem is we are that lightweight that we need these kids with bits of quality to help keep our heads above water.

Could be argued that last season might have been a bigger mess without Elliots contributions. Season before Tosin helped us to midtable, relying soley on our kids in this div is a v dangerous game imo.

It's not a dangerous proposition if you recruit accordingly. It's such a low quality league that a future PL player (not even a star) can stand out in their teens down here. 

Obviously you just need to pick the right ones from the Academies of the big boys. Mowbray, in all his talking down of our history / ambitions, has essentially turned us into a test bed for the NW Premier League Academies to bloody their youngsters (or in the case of Tosin, put them in the shop window). 

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

It's not a dangerous proposition if you recruit accordingly. It's such a low quality league that a future PL player (not even a star) can stand out in their teens down here. 

Obviously you just need to pick the right ones from the Academies of the big boys. Mowbray, in all his talking down of our history / ambitions, has essentially turned us into a test bed for the NW Premier League Academies to bloody their youngsters (or in the case of Tosin, put them in the shop window). 

In the case of the loans it's just another comfortable way to manage as far as i see it. Yes they are always backing their own judgement but if it doesn't work they can be sent back.

And they can always say well they came from a top club so we expected better and put the onus of blame on the kids themselves.

When it does work, as it has in a few cases recently then everyone gets a pat on the back. And the sob story about not being able to keep them is ready made.

Things get more complicated when you have to risk actually signing academy cast offs.

Edited June 25, 2021 by tomphil

[rigger]

50 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

At least you understand the issue now. 

Personally I can't see an issue with not signing anybody yet.

[JacknOry]

59 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Loans should be used as the cherry on top - bolstering your team for a promotion push with a quality youngster that you'd have absolutely no chance of signing traditionally i.e. Mount, C. Gallagher, Elliot et al. 

We use it as an integral part of our squad building exercise i.e. Turnbull, Douglas. 

It's a criminal mismanagement of resources, but that's ol'Tone. We helped City, Everton and Liverpool out last season and finished mid table. We stunted the development of several of our own prospects to do so. 

Like a certain Berkovic was at this level.

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

And all of them could be shit, all signings are a gamble.  

And equally, all of them could be mint.

[rigger]

7 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

And equally, all of them could be mint.

Hence why signings are always a gamble. the timing of making signings, does not alter that fact.

Edited June 25, 2021 by rigger

[rovers11]

8 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

And equally, all of them could be mint.

If they're gone to Preston and Blackpool then I think it's safe to say they probably won't be mint. I would have both down as big relegation favourites. 

[DE.]

20 minutes ago, rigger said:

Hence why signings are always a gamble. the timing of making signings, does not alter that fact.

As of now I'd agree, but once pre-season starts the later we sign somebody the less chance they have to bed in with their team mates and take part in pre-season with the club before the season starts. 

[bluebruce]

29 minutes ago, rigger said:

Hence why signings are always a gamble. the timing of making signings, does not alter that fact.

If all signings are essentially equal because they could go well or badly (which is a silly argument btw) then the difference is that they at least seem to be organised and on with it. We have half a squad to rebuild and could do to get a shift on. Normally I'm in the far more relaxed crowd on here when it comes to patience with signings, but this year we have a LOT of work to do. It probably is a little early to actually complain, but all the omens are ominous.

27 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

If they're gone to Preston and Blackpool then I think it's safe to say they probably won't be mint. I would have both down as big relegation favourites. 

We will take some beating. Preston's discarded u18s player was one of our biggest transfer successes last year. Blackpool have a striker we covet that they got for peanuts but would now cost more than we can afford without sales. Of course their signings could turn out well.

Edited June 25, 2021 by bluebruce

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, DE. said:

As of now I'd agree, but once pre-season starts the later we sign somebody the less chance they have to bed in with their team mates and take part in pre-season with the club before the season starts. 

Pre-season starts Sunday. Hence why clubs are signing players.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, rovers11 said:

If they're gone to Preston and Blackpool then I think it's safe to say they probably won't be mint. I would have both down as big relegation favourites. 

I you don't know who they are it's probably hard for you to judge.

Izzy Brown, Josh Bowler and Sepp Van Den Berg are 3 of the 6 signed by the two clubs. I'll look forward to us signing better.