Summer transfer window 2021.

[Guest]

Taylor Harwood-Bellis has gone to play under Vincent Kompany at Anderlecht. He was never coming back on loan here clearly, and I don't think any CEO, any manager, any HoR or any club who'd had him at Championship level in 2020/21 would have him again for 2021/22. So for me, the THB move to Belgium isn't an indication of our ability/inability to do deals or convince players to come.

Harvey Elliott is a special case, he may still come, but the likelihood is he won't. But again, that isn't because of our shortcomings in the boardrooms and backrooms. That'll be because they want to keep him in their squad or they want him to play Premier League football.

Let the likes of Blackpool and Birmingham and Preston do their early deals. The best loan players are available right at the tail end of the window, and as many have pointed to, should be the cherry on top of your activity in the summer. If these clubs are making loan signings in June then I think it says a lot about their plans and budgets for the window ahead.

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Izzy Brown, Josh Bowler and Sepp Van Den Berg.

The quality of these players in question is pretty sub par. I would hope we can do better. Both Elliott and THB last year were far superior deals and the better loanee's come later on in the window and sometimes even later on in the season.

Izzy Brown: Sheffield Wednesday fans thought he was tosh, and this feels like his 17th loan move.

Josh Bowler: A bit of a weird one. Been at a few different clubs and never produced at first team level, now 22.

Sepp Van Den Berg: Was at PNE last year and looked really average, better than Branthwaite? Maybe about the same level.

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Taylor Harwood-Bellis has gone to play under Vincent Kompany at Anderlecht. He was never coming back on loan here clearly, and I don't think any CEO, any manager, any HoR or any club who'd had him at Championship level in 2020/21 would have him again for 2021/22. So for me, the THB move to Belgium isn't an indication of our ability/inability to do deals or convince players to come.

Harvey Elliott is a special case, he may still come, but the likelihood is he won't. But again, that isn't because of our shortcomings in the boardrooms and backrooms. That'll be because they want to keep him in their squad or they want him to play Premier League football.

Let the likes of Blackpool and Birmingham and Preston do their early deals. The best loan players are available right at the tail end of the window, and as many have pointed to, should be the cherry on top of your activity in the summer. If these clubs are making loan signings in June then I think it says a lot about their plans and budgets for the window ahead.

The problem is not specifically to do with the loan deals, it is with this general way of working whereby you can guarantee a huge gap after the season before we pull our finger out, especially with the owners pissing about waiting for the manager to beg for a budget. I think that our loans have been mixed but there have been some obvious highlights and good use of the loan market. The problem has been that they have been the cherry on the top of a shoddy cake made by a shoddy baker.

Out of the loans that you mentioned, only Van Den Berg is a loan (the other 2 are permanent) and it was a loan set up to be extended when it was done. He has to be better than Branthwaite who was an absolute car crash of a defender.

Bowler didnt do much at Hull and Brown has talent but has never really found a home or shown too much so I am not necessarily bothered about those 2, but do you have any faith in us having a good transfer window?

Signings wise, Birmingham have signed Woods from Stoke and Graham who had a good season at Gillingham, Cardiff have signed James Collins and Wintle from Crewe, Huddersfield have signed Rhodes, Ruffels and Pearson amongst others, Luton have signed Allan Campbell, Reece Burke, Onyedimna, Lansbury and Jerome, QPR signed 3 former loanees on permanent deals plus Dozzell and Stoke signed Wilmot to replace Collins. Not much to get excited about and im not sure how many if any I would have here, but I am not deluded enough to think that we can or will get much better sadly.

Edited June 25, 2021 by roversfan99

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, JoeH said:

The quality of these players in question is pretty sub par. I would hope we can do better. Both Elliott and THB last year were far superior deals and the better loanee's come later on in the window and sometimes even later on in the season.

Izzy Brown: Sheffield Wednesday fans thought he was tosh, and this feels like his 17th loan move.

Josh Bowler: A bit of a weird one. Been at a few different clubs and never produced at first team level, now 22.

Sepp Van Den Berg: Was at PNE last year and looked really average, better than Branthwaite? Maybe about the same level.

The quality of Trybull, Branthwaite, Pears and Douglas was sub par.

Like I said, I'll look forward to us signing better than the ones I mentioned.

 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, JoeH said:

Taylor Harwood-Bellis has gone to play under Vincent Kompany at Anderlecht. He was never coming back on loan here clearly, and I don't think any CEO, any manager, any HoR or any club who'd had him at Championship level in 2020/21 would have him again for 2021/22. So for me, the THB move to Belgium isn't an indication of our ability/inability to do deals or convince players to come.

Indeed, it's confirmation a player that was here last year doesn't want to come back. 

 

Just now, JoeH said:

Harvey Elliott is a special case, he may still come, but the likelihood is he won't. But again, that isn't because of our shortcomings in the boardrooms and backrooms. That'll be because they want to keep him in their squad or they want him to play Premier League football.

That's' been much confirmed by the Echo

 

Just now, JoeH said:

Let the likes of Blackpool and Birmingham and Preston do their early deals. The best loan players are available right at the tail end of the window, and as many have pointed to, should be the cherry on top of your activity in the summer. If these clubs are making loan signings in June then I think it says a lot about their plans and budgets for the window ahead.

Only 1 of those players mentioned was a loan signing (Van Den Berg) The others are free's.

And I'm pretty sure it says absolutely nothing about their budgets, it just says they've moved quickly to sign players who were available. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Indeed, it's confirmation a player that was here last year doesn't want to come back. 

 

It really, really isn't. It's not about what the player wants, not really.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, JoeH said:

It really, really isn't. It's not about what the player wants, not really.

It really really is. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Signings wise, Birmingham have signed Woods from Stoke and Graham who had a good season at Gillingham, Cardiff have signed James Collins and Wintle from Crewe, Huddersfield have signed Rhodes, Ruffels and Pearson amongst others, Luton have signed Allan Campbell, Reece Burke, Onyedimna, Lansbury and Jerome, QPR signed 3 former loanees on permanent deals plus Dozzell and Stoke signed Wilmot to replace Collins. Not much to get excited about and im not sure how many if any I would have here, but I am not deluded enough to think that we can or will get much better sadly.

If any of the following players signed for Rovers today: Woods, Graham, Wintle, Rhodes, Ruffels, Pearson, Campbell, Onyedimna, Lansbury, Jerome & Dozzell - there would've been massive backlash and online vitriol from many supporters, and on most accounts, rightly so.

The players available so early, much like the ones we've let go early, are the players discarded by other clubs. They're not the ones we should be going after. Could you just imagine if we'd sorted out 3 deals so far in the form of Cameron Jerome, Andre Dozzell and Jordan Graham - people would be absolutely fuming.

[phili]

4 minutes ago, JoeH said:

If any of the following players signed for Rovers today: Woods, Graham, Wintle, Rhodes, Ruffels, Pearson, Campbell, Onyedimna, Lansbury, Jerome & Dozzell - there would've been massive backlash and online vitriol from many supporters, and on most accounts, rightly so.

The players available so early, much like the ones we've let go early, are the players discarded by other clubs. They're not the ones we should be going after. Could you just imagine if we'd sorted out 3 deals so far in the form of Cameron Jerome, Andre Dozzell and Jordan Graham - people would be absolutely fuming.

Successful clubs normally try to get the players in before pre-season, so everyone gels and understands how to play in our system. It's one of the reasons why we have not been anywhere in the Championship, we never have a settled side going into the season, we do most of our signings in the last week of the Window. We then write off the first 6-8 games while everyone settles in. 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

It really really is. 

Anderlecht played in the Champions League group stage a few years ago. Facing sides like Paris St Germain, Bayern Munich and consistently finish at the top end of the Belgian Pro League. They're managed by Manchester City club legend and former captain Vincent Kompany, who is an idol of Taylor Harwood-Bellis'.

The reality is that Taylor was clearly never coming back here (or any hypothetical Championship side that he played for in 2020/21), it's not an indication of our ability to get deals done and it's not an indication of how much or how little he enjoyed playing here.

It's not about what a player wants, it's about what his parent club wants and what they feel is best. Anderlecht want him, that's the end of any ember of a chance Rovers had at getting him back.

Edited June 25, 2021 by JoeH

[roversfan99]

Just now, JoeH said:

If any of the following players signed for Rovers today: Woods, Graham, Wintle, Rhodes, Ruffels, Pearson, Campbell, Onyedimna, Lansbury, Jerome & Dozzell - there would've been massive backlash and online vitriol from many supporters, and on most accounts, rightly so.

The players available so early, much like the ones we've let go early, are the players discarded by other clubs. They're not the ones we should be going after. Could you just imagine if we'd sorted out 3 deals so far in the form of Cameron Jerome, Andre Dozzell and Jordan Graham - people would be absolutely fuming.

Whilst you exaggerate massively the potential reaction to those individuals, I did specifically say that there is "not much to get excited about and im not sure how many if any I would have here." Graham is an interesting one, in that he got twice as many goals (12 v 6) over a player that you repeatedly recommend in Kirk at Crewe from the same position, plus he is on a free, but I couldnt say if he would have been much use here. Ruffels and Wintle were seemingly top performers at League 1 level too but then again, anyone from League 1 is a gamble. Woods is a tidy midfielder at Championship player aswell. But yeah, overall, not much to get excited about.

But 2 questions. Do you think that we are under Venkys far too slow at the start of a transfer window, pissing around with budgets and the usual budget pilgrimage that they lazily and stubbornly insist on, or do you not see an issue? And also, do you have faith that we will have a successful window, getting better than the average freebies that have already gone elsewhere?

You look at the window that we had last summer. Kaminski, very impressive. Pears, its who you know I suppose. Ayala, scandalous deal. Trybull, late desperate deal, a load of shite. Douglas, horrendous. Elliott came from nowhere, very good.

[Guest]

Just now, phili said:

Successful clubs normally try to get the players in before pre-season, so everyone gels and understands how to play in our system. It's one of the reasons why we have not been anywhere in the Championship, we never have a settled side going into the season, we do most of our signings in the last week of the Window. We then write off the first 6-8 games while everyone settles in. 

In the first 6-8 weeks last season, where we did business pretty late in the window for the most part, we picked up a 5-0 home win, two 4-0 away wins, progressed in the 1st round of the League Cup before losing to Newcastle where I thought we outplayed them at St James' and played some of our best football in that entire season.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

And also, do you have faith that we will have a successful window, getting better than the average freebies that have already gone elsewhere?

I believe we can do better than the likes of Cameron Jerome and Sepp Van Den Berg. I don't know if we will do better for sure, but I for one am glad that we're not scrambling around in June picking up the rejects from clubs in our league or below. 

Last year I think 50% of our business was great, the other 50% not so great. I think we'll probably up with the same this year, and that's just a realistic expectation.

[phili]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

In the first 6-8 weeks last season, where we did business pretty late in the window for the most part, we picked up a 5-0 home win, two 4-0 away wins, progressed in the 1st round of the League Cup before losing to Newcastle where I thought we outplayed them at St James' and played some of our best football in that entire season.

I think we need to exclude last season with Covid, with the delay to the end of the season, there was virtually no holidays before start of pre-season and the start of the normal season. Getting Kaminski in early was probably the real benefit there.

But in a normal season getting players in early and settled normally results in a good showing.

[Ewood Ace]

6 minutes ago, JoeH said:

If any of the following players signed for Rovers today: Woods, Graham, Wintle, Rhodes, Ruffels, Pearson, Campbell, Onyedimna, Lansbury, Jerome & Dozzell - there would've been massive backlash and online vitriol from many supporters, and on most accounts, rightly so.

The players available so early, much like the ones we've let go early, are the players discarded by other clubs. They're not the ones we should be going after. Could you just imagine if we'd sorted out 3 deals so far in the form of Cameron Jerome, Andre Dozzell and Jordan Graham - people would be absolutely fuming.

There would have been no complaints from me if we'd signed Rhodes or Collins as strikers both at this level are well ahead of Gallagher and Brereton.

Allan Campbell was a player I advocated signing earlier in the window getting him on a free is very good business by Luton. But there was no chance of us doing that as the club seems to shut down for a month or so once the season is finished. When did we last get a good Bosman in early in a window? This is the problem when you are so slow in the transfer market and leave it late, all the good Bosman's are gone so you end up with crocks like Holtby and Ayala.

Ryan Woods is easily as good as anything we have in midfield and Pearson is also easily as good as anything we have at centre back. 

We need to get real instead of snobbily looking down our nose at players. We are a bottom half club, with a weak squad, with a poor manager who isn't going to attract anyone and we are in for a struggle in the upcoming season.

8 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Anderlecht played in the Champions League group stage a few years ago. Facing sides like Paris St Germain, Bayern Munich and consistently finish at the top of the Belgian Pro League. They're managed by Manchester City club legend and former captain Vincent Kompany, who is an idol of Taylor Harwood-Bellis'.

 Anderlecht haven't been finishing consistently at the top of the Belgian League for a few years now.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

There would have been no complaints from me

Every single player in that list would've received complaints from significant amounts of supporters. Of course, not every single one, by every single supporter

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

When did we last get a good Bosman in early in a window? This is the problem when you are so slow in the transfer market and leave it late, all the good Bosman's are gone so you end up with crocks like Holtby and Ayala.

I don't think there are any decent players we could actually get on a free right now that are within a reasonable wage.

Alex Mowatt is the only one and I don't think he wants to leave his current club. He'll probably end up at West Brom with his former manager. Rhodes is one that would always be debated and would cost a lot. There's not much about. The club can only operate in the market they're dealing in.

[RevidgeBlue]

38 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Let the likes of Blackpool and Birmingham and Preston do their early deals. The best loan players are available right at the tail end of the window, and as many have pointed to, should be the cherry on top of your activity in the summer. If these clubs are making loan signings in June then I think it says a lot about their plans and budgets for the window ahead.

Better still in our case let's stop this ludicrous practice of filling our squad with loan signings and start signing our own players and giving our own youngsters a chance as Crimpshine says.

For all the talk about how good Elliott was I thought he lost interest by Christmas and looking forward for the long term I'd far rather have seen Dolan get more game time. Ditto Carter and Magloire at the back over Branthwaite and Taylor Bellis.

The other problem with waiting until the end of the season to see what scraps fall off the Premier League loan table is that you end up having to take whoever is left available rather than the players you really want in the positions you want.

Need to start making astute signings and unearthing hidden gems then maybe topping it all off with an Elliott or a second loan signing at most.

Mind you that would require a manager with an eye for a player and a decent scouting system as opposed to just looking at the same data based app that everyone else is looking at.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Need to start making astute signings and unearthing hidden gems

Literally everybody would do this if it were possible - so the logical outcome is that it's not as easy as unearthing some hidden gems.

[rigger]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

If all signings are essentially equal because they could go well or badly (which is a silly argument btw) then the difference is that they at least seem to be organised and on with it. We have half a squad to rebuild and could do to get a shift on. Normally I'm in the far more relaxed crowd on here when it comes to patience with signings, but this year we have a LOT of work to do. It probably is a little early to actually complain, but all the omens are ominous.

We will take some beating. Preston's discarded u18s player was one of our biggest transfer successes last year. Blackpool have a striker we covet that they got for peanuts but would now cost more than we can afford without sales. Of course their signings could turn out well.

I don't think its a silly argument, or that we need half a squad (13 signings) 

[phili]

2 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I don't think there are any decent players we could actually get on a free right now that are within a reasonable wage.

Alex Mowatt is the only one and I don't think he wants to leave his current club. He'll probably end up at West Brom with his former manager. Rhodes is one that would always be debated and would cost a lot. There's not much about. The club can only operate in the market they're dealing in.

Supposedly Rhodes has gone back to Huddersfield to play and be close to his family. They also now have a much stricter wage budget than ourselves so I don't think he'll be on much more than £10k a week.

[Mashed Potatoes]

It seems a bit silly to say we don't give our youngsters a chance when we have just won an award for playing more home grown players than any other club in the division.

[Guest]

Can I just say, Harry Pickering may not technically count as a summer addition but he's coming in as a brand new player for 2021/22. At his age, with his talent and potential, the amount of clubs assigned to interest in him... I think his deal shows we've got some nous when we need it. We'd have loved to have him in January I'm sure but to have him for the next season is great and I think it shows that we do have intent to bring in young, hungry players for fee's. 

We've tied him down to a long term deal, we've sorted out some of the contracts we needed to sort and extended some deals for younger players with potential. It's not like we've done nothing. 

I get that some clubs are moving, but Cameron Jerome's and Josh Bowler's really shouldn't be players we're worried to have missed out on. Let these clubs swap around their unwanted scraps - the real business will begin in a few weeks when dominos start to fall. One deal becomes possible because of another, etc etc etc. It's a waiting game.

[RevidgeBlue]

17 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Last year I think 50% of our business was great, the other 50% not so great. I think we'll probably up with the same this year, and that's just a realistic expectation.

50% great is a bit of a push.

Kaminsky very good, Pears a shocker, the Greek lad, is he still alive?

Ayala the new Mulgrew, scandalous, Branthwaite really poor, Taylor Bellis good. Douglas woeful, Trybull ditto and we didn't need another player of his type anyway.

Elliott very good overall.

I make that three out of nine unless I've missed anyone else out. Not a good strike rate at all and the net result from 10th to 15th.

[Ewood Ace]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

I don't think there are any decent players we could actually get on a free right now that are within a reasonable wage.

Alex Mowatt is the only one and I don't think he wants to leave his current club. He'll probably end up at West Brom with his former manager. Rhodes is one that would always be debated and would cost a lot. There's not much about. The club can only operate in the market they're dealing in.

You just named a few above. Allan Campbell and Ryan Woods are easily as good as anything we have in midfield. Matty Pearson is as good as anything we have at centre back. Rhodes and Collins both score goals something that outside of Armstrong none of our other players do consistently.

It isn't going to take much to improve the squad as it stands, we finished 15th last season and have lost 11 players from that squad. We need to get real at the moment all our squad is good enough for is a relegation battle. Just to have a season of mid table mediocrity like last season we probably need 8 players and the season start in just 6 weeks time.