Summer transfer window 2021.

[RevidgeBlue]

Edit: sorry double post Internet connection playing up.

Edited June 25, 2021 by RevidgeBlue

[Bluerover78]

38 minutes ago, phili said:

Successful clubs normally try to get the players in before pre-season, so everyone gels and understands how to play in our system. It's one of the reasons why we have not been anywhere in the Championship, we never have a settled side going into the season, we do most of our signings in the last week of the Window. We then write off the first 6-8 games while everyone settles in. 

Tony doesn't believe in systems or formations hence why we don't need to bed them in. He will probably have any new recruits on the bench for a few weeks before giving them debuts in a totally alien positions.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Allan Campbell and Ryan Woods are easily as good as anything we have in midfield. Matty Pearson is as good as anything we have at centre back

Lenihan is better than Pearson in my opinion. Woods I don't rate that well myself and Campbell hasn't played in England/Championship yet so lets wait and see before we judge him too heavily.

[RevidgeBlue]

17 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Literally everybody would do this if it were possible - so the logical outcome is that it's not as easy as unearthing some hidden gems.

Sides in the past that have been successful have always managed to do this and it's even more important now that the EU situation has put foreign players out of reach for all but the bigger Clubs of which we are not currently one.

There was talk a while ago of slashing the amount of players PL Clubs could have out on loan as well. When's that coming into effect?

[phili]

Do we know how well Wharton is recovering from his injury? Is it likely to be preseason his return or much later in the season?

I wouldn't mind going back in for last years transfer target, Charlie Goode from Brentford and seeing how good their partnership would be in the Championship, as it was pretty good in League 2.

I assume if an offer for Lennihan is received this summer he may well be off as only 12 months left on his contract unless we have an option on his contract too?

 

[JHRover]

How can Huddersfield be in a position to sign Rhodes and co. and only charge £249 for season tickets

Yet we aren't in that market and have to charge £400 with our billionaire owners?

Something doesn't add up.

[bluebruce]

32 minutes ago, rigger said:

I don't think its a silly argument, or that we need half a squad (13 signings) 

10 first team squad members have left, or am I mistaken? That's close enough to half a squad for me to use the phrase.

To illustrate that it's a silly argument - if we re-signed Jason Lowe, that would be an equal signing to getting Elliott back would it? Yes there are risks inherent in any transfer, but the risks can be broadly calculated as better or worse ones. Just because it's not an exact science doesn't mean you can't try to pinpoint good and bad signings before they happen. It's literally what our recruitment department are there to do.

Edited June 25, 2021 by bluebruce

[Ulrich]

28 minutes ago, Bluerover78 said:

Tony doesn't believe in systems or formations hence why we don't need to bed them in. He will probably have any new recruits on the bench for a few weeks before giving them debuts in a totally alien positions.

If TM has Shearer, he'd play him in goal....

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

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Signings wise, Birmingham have signed Woods from Stoke and Graham who had a good season at Gillingham, Cardiff have signed James Collins and Wintle from Crewe, Huddersfield have signed Rhodes, Ruffels and Pearson amongst others, Luton have signed Allan Campbell, Reece Burke, Onyedimna, Lansbury and Jerome, QPR signed 3 former loanees on permanent deals plus Dozzell and Stoke signed Wilmot to replace Collins. Not much to get excited about and im not sure how many if any I would have here, but I am not deluded enough to think that we can or will get much better sadly.

I think Birmingham has made a cracking signing in Ryan Woods and someone Mowbray should have been trying to sign for a number of seasons. Would be ideal deeo midfielder for Mowbray possession based football tactics,

Stoke signing Wilmot is a good signing and ideal replacement for Collins

Rest are average players at best, We havent miss out on them

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

 

But 2 questions. Do you think that we are under Venkys far too slow at the start of a transfer window, pissing around with budgets and the usual budget pilgrimage that they lazily and stubbornly insist on, or do you not see an issue? And also, do you have faith that we will have a successful window, getting better than the average freebies that have already gone elsewhere?

Mowbray has known his budget for a number of weeks after it was agreed with the owners just before/after the season finish. But this summer has been slight different cos we haven't submit our accounts which are done now. Hopefully we see some movement in the next couple of weeks but not over busy. 

It's depends on whether Mowbray signs players that the recruitment team has suggested or ignores their suggestions. Most of those signings clubs have made wouldn't improve our first 11 in my opionion. 

[RevidgeBlue]

36 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

 Just to have a season of mid table mediocrity like last season we probably need 8 players and the season start in just 6 weeks time.

I'd say a new manager was more important in that respect.

To play devil's advocate none of the players who have departed so far will be a massive loss, however if we lose the likes of Nyambe (especially) and Rothwell who the Club have failed to tie down on long term deals you'd imagine that would start to be more of a problem and if we cave in and let Armstrong go on the cheap at the last minute then start scrapping round for a replacement then we really will be be struggling.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

39 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Anderlecht played in the Champions League group stage a few years ago. Facing sides like Paris St Germain, Bayern Munich and consistently finish at the top end of the Belgian Pro League. They're managed by Manchester City club legend and former captain Vincent Kompany, who is an idol of Taylor Harwood-Bellis'.

The reality is that Taylor was clearly never coming back here (or any hypothetical Championship side that he played for in 2020/21), it's not an indication of our ability to get deals done and it's not an indication of how much or how little he enjoyed playing here.

It's not about what a player wants, it's about what his parent club wants and what they feel is best. Anderlecht want him, that's the end of any ember of a chance Rovers had at getting him back.

So, like I said, a player who was here last season doesn't want to come back and would prefer to chance his arm at Anderlecht. Unless you're saying Pep has forced him to go and play in Begium, but he really wanted to come back to a team that finished 15th in the Championship?

[OldEwoodBlue]

24 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

To play devil's advocate none of the players who have departed so far will be a massive loss, however if we lose the likes of Nyambe (especially) and Rothwell who the Club have failed to tie down on long term deals you'd imagine that would start to be more of a problem and if we cave in and let Armstrong go on the cheap at the last minute then start scrapping round for a replacement then we really will be be struggling.

To play devil's advocate, they haven't failed to tie them down.... They have chosen to not tie them down, as part of the ongoing managed decline. Fans want one thing. The owners and their management team want something completely different. Hence why we constantly don't understand their actions or perceived inactions.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

I don't think there are any decent players we could actually get on a free right now that are within a reasonable wage.

Alex Mowatt is the only one and I don't think he wants to leave his current club. He'll probably end up at West Brom with his former manager. Rhodes is one that would always be debated and would cost a lot. There's not much about. The club can only operate in the market they're dealing in.

 

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Can I just say, Harry Pickering may not technically count as a summer addition but he's coming in as a brand new player for 2021/22. At his age, with his talent and potential, the amount of clubs assigned to interest in him... I think his deal shows we've got some nous when we need it. We'd have loved to have him in January I'm sure but to have him for the next season is great and I think it shows that we do have intent to bring in young, hungry players for fee's. 

We've tied him down to a long term deal, we've sorted out some of the contracts we needed to sort and extended some deals for younger players with potential. It's not like we've done nothing. 

I get that some clubs are moving, but Cameron Jerome's and Josh Bowler's really shouldn't be players we're worried to have missed out on. Let these clubs swap around their unwanted scraps - the real business will begin in a few weeks when dominos start to fall. One deal becomes possible because of another, etc etc etc. It's a waiting game.

May I ask what market you think we will be working in? Mowbray has said numerous times that we are going to again be reliant on loans and dealing in the free agent market. As well as this, the market in general is going to be much more focused on free agents moving around, more players than ever have been released it seems.

The Pickering one is very much an unknown, it has the potential to be good but until if and when he performs, then it doesnt show any nous, although we should always "need" nous surely! The thing that has underpinned our recruitment for years has been one that should only really be used when a manager is used, familiarity. Players the manager has worked with before, players from Boro and players that have family members known to Mowbray. Quite a few are just ones that have caught Mowbray's eye playing against him, Dack, Gladwin and Brereton included. Kaminski is the only one to date that showed a bit of creativity.

A lot of the players that I have seen you recommend such as Kirk and Curtis are ones that would require fees for. The only chance I can see of us paying fees is if Armstrong goes, and even if he does, can we afford to wait until inevitably late in the window before we start to recruit?

The contracts we have sorted are the easy ones, the ones that wont have any interest elsewhere. Still have Armstrong, Nyambe, Rothwell, Lenihan, Brereton etc all on a solitary year.

Mowatt has never been realistic either.

I am not saying that the signings made to date are ones that we should have signed, although lets not pretend that our inactivity is a tactical ploy to wait for better players. This is always the way.

22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think Birmingham has made a cracking signing in Ryan Woods and someone Mowbray should have been trying to sign for a number of seasons. Would be ideal deeo midfielder for Mowbray possession based football tactics,

Stoke signing Wilmot is a good signing and ideal replacement for Collins

Rest are average players at best, We havent miss out on them

Mowbray has known his budget for a number of weeks after it was agreed with the owners just before/after the season finish. But this summer has been slight different cos we haven't submit our accounts which are done now. Hopefully we see some movement in the next couple of weeks but not over busy. 

It's depends on whether Mowbray signs players that the recruitment team has suggested or ignores their suggestions. Most of those signings clubs have made wouldn't improve our first 11 in my opionion. 

There is always an excuse as to why Venkys never pull their fingers out of their arses and why signings are never proactive. Usually because they want the manager to fly over because they are stubborn. Then the pandemic, now because they themselves have failed to delegate as necessary to submit the accounts. Excuses, excuses, excuses.

Do we want players to fit into Mowbray ball? Woods is a decent enough player to be fair but the thought of more possession hogging is a sad one.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, Ulrich said:

If TM has Shearer, he'd play him in goal....

Steady, he'd have to learn the position off Pears first. 

[DE.]

We've had, what, one decent summer window in our League 1 season under Mowbray? I expect the same old story of failing to bring in anyone of note in July, then scrambling around in August for anyone available to plug the gaps.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if we start the season with a lot of young, untested players in the first team squad. The eternal optimists will laud the club for bringing through the youth and being loyal to 'honest' Tony, even whilst we plummet down the table. Meanwhile Ayala and the other known crocks will soon pick up injuries again, making our situation even more dire. Maybe Downing will be brought back again. 

Relegation seems very likely to me. I'll be stunned if we aren't bobbing around the drop zone for most of the season. I would say 'in a relegation fight' but under Mowbray I can't foresee it being much of a fight.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

54 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I believe we can do better than the likes of Cameron Jerome and Sepp Van Den Berg. I don't know if we will do better for sure, but I for one am glad that we're not scrambling around in June picking up the rejects from clubs in our league or below. 

Last year I think 50% of our business was great, the other 50% not so great. I think we'll probably up with the same this year, and that's just a realistic expectation.

For a start Van Den Berg is from Liverpool. And you're just taking the piss by saying 50% of our summer transfer business was 'great'. If you'd have said 70% was shite you would have been closer. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

54 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I don't think there are any decent players we could actually get on a free right now that are within a reasonable wage.

You don't know that. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

How can Huddersfield be in a position to sign Rhodes and co. and only charge £249 for season tickets

Yet we aren't in that market and have to charge £400 with our billionaire owners?

Something doesn't add up.

That's always been a valid argument, the only conclusion is so much of Vs annual share issues goes covering what was wasted in the past and is still being wasted.

Also we've no idea who's really on the Ewood payroll and what gets charged to the club.

 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

18 minutes ago, phili said:

Do we know how well Wharton is recovering from his injury? Is it likely to be preseason his return or much later in the season?

I think it was said that it would be closer to Christmas before Wharton returns.

[OldEwoodBlue]

At least in 3 working days the club will be able to proudly announce that the EFL has lifted the transfer embargo.

 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

10 first team squad members have left, or am I mistaken? That's close enough to half a squad for me to use the phrase.

To illustrate that it's a silly argument - if we re-signed Jason Lowe, that would be an equal signing to getting Elliott back would it? Yes there are risks inherent in any transfer, but the risks can be broadly calculated as better or worse ones. Just because it's not an exact science doesn't mean you can't try to pinpoint good and bad signings before they happen. It's literally what our recruitment department are there to do.

Most of those squad members who have left will not be missed. Most could be replaced with our returning loanees or U23s. I would be happy if we signed another left full-back and a left-winger. Your comparison of Lowe and Elliot prove my point. At age 17 you would not be able to tell who was going to be a success and who wasn't.

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

The quality of Trybull, Branthwaite, Pears and Douglas was sub par.

Like I said, I'll look forward to us signing better than the ones I mentioned.

 

It looked decent enough on paper to be honest i think most were pleased. However it took the 2 of the 3 outfield players an age to get to grips with how we played.

Branthwaite never did really and Pears was clearly just another old boys act who, if the rec team hadn't got Kaminsky, would probably have been number 1 !

 

[Miller11]

18 minutes ago, DE. said:

Wouldn't surprise me at all if we start the season with a lot of young, untested players in the first team squad.

Under a different manager, Ainsworth for example, I’d actually be happy enough with this. Excited even. No expectations of promotion this year, but I’d fancy us to stay clear of relegation if we kept hold of the likes of Nyambe and Rothwell, and players like JRC and Dolan to improve and excel. I’d see this as a genuine start of a “journey” and a long term plan I could get on board with.

Unfortunately we’ve got Mowbray, who would certainly rather pad the squad out with never-has-beens and seems more interested in developing other teams players than our own.

[chaddyrovers]

38 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

There is always an excuse as to why Venkys never pull their fingers out of their arses and why signings are never proactive. Usually because they want the manager to fly over because they are stubborn. Then the pandemic, now because they themselves have failed to delegate as necessary to submit the accounts. Excuses, excuses, excuses.

On the Accounts thing, the government gave a 3 months extension to businesses to submit their accounts but the EFL didnt extend their deadline. Which is odd I think. 

Mowbray knows his budgets and his targets this transfer window and he has no excuses this summer even if we sell Armstrong, Mowbray and recruitment team should have targets in mind to replace Armstrong. 

44 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Do we want players to fit into Mowbray ball? Woods is a decent enough player to be fair but the thought of more possession hogging is a sad one.

Woods could fit into most managers set up. Quality player. Mowbray miss out again

[bluebruce]

20 minutes ago, rigger said:

Most of those squad members who have left will not be missed. Most could be replaced with our returning loanees or U23s. I would be happy if we signed another left full-back and a left-winger. Your comparison of Lowe and Elliot prove my point. At age 17 you would not be able to tell who was going to be a success and who wasn't.

They played games, so they need replacing. Whether we thought they were hot property is not the point. It's a long season, where rotation is necessary, and our manager's default approach. Depth is required, that's not really up for debate. I'd say we can probably go with 2, maybe 3 less bodies overall than last season but any more is a big risk to take for a side that wasn't far off a relegation battle last season.

For returning loanees I'll grant Carter seems a plus, but Chapman looks to be off and nobody else looks likely to get a look in. Our u23s is a similar story - despite all the talk, Mowbray didn't even trust them enough to give any of them a debut in the end of season dead rubbers. It's a huge leap to assume we, and he in particular, can rely on them now.

You'd be happy to replace 10 departing players with 2? And not even in the position most required, central midfield, where we have ironically been carrying too many players previously but now are short. Thank god you're not in charge, I'd rather have Mowbray than someone who thinks we only need two new players this summer.

My comparison doesn't remotely prove your point. Firstly, highly rated Liverpool youngster with first team appearances for them under his belt and having been bought at 16 for 4 million is an absolute non-starter comparison to Jason Lowe at any age. Secondly my comparison didn't reverse-age Jason Lowe, I was talking about the player of right now, who is absolute dog shit.

So basically, if Rovers signed me tomorrow - aged 36, never played professionally, injury prone and entirely out of shape, that would be equally as likely to pay off as if we got Elliott back. You'd be just as happy with it because all signings are a gamble. Got it.