Summer transfer window 2021.

[LordBaltimore]

38 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Semi related issue but I can imagine Brereton coming back high on his exploits, bumps into Mowbray in the hall and his dour, negative demeneur brings him back to earth with a bang. 

Doubt it since Mowbray and many of the Rovers staff are in daily contact with him, according to sources inside both Chile & Rovers.  Seeing him in person wont be the problem.  But Rovers coaching is dragging him down.

[LordBaltimore]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

The key is not to make out that Brereton suddenly and temporarily becomes a miles superior player when he goes away to Chile, working with a manager he can presumably not even understand! He scored v international minnows, held his own v a very strong team and then didnt do anything in a loss to an average side, fair play to him, but hes not suddenly a world beater. Last season, he did ok and Mowbray found a role and has to be considered somewhat responsible for any improvement, although overall, still an ill judged signing by him for a scandalous fee.

Dude, you've got to let that fee shit go.  He wasnt bought 6wks ago but 3yr ago.  There is a certain amount of arrogance in your posts.  You seem to think that somehow BB or his agent have pulled a fast one on these poor ignorant backwards South Americans.  There are reasons Brereton was scouted beyond his ability to obtain a chilean passport. 

There are reasons Marcelo Bielsa [one of the best coaches in the world who does not follow young players willy nilly] has scouted him for Leeds not based on his last 2wks but for the last 2yrs. There are reasons he has been personally recommended to Real Sociedad by their former coach & current chile manager Lasarte, who sees what he does on the practice pitch against players far better than his Rovers team mates.  There are reasons he has earned the respect of his fellow players on the Chile team.   And there are reasons he has become a household name all over South America.  They all have to do with Brereton's attributes both on and off the pitch.  He has EARNED it all himself.   And all without speaking any Spanish and coming from a completely alien footballing culture [from a Chilean perspective].

Rovers have been a stone in his shoes.  Rovers have had him for 3yrs and still dont quite know where to play him.  He is surrounded by mediocrity from top to bottom.  That is on Rovers.  He will thrive anywhere else, as he is showing.

How easily you rubbish the South American opposition he has faced, another example of your arrogance and i will add ignorance of what South American football is actually like.  Mid table CONMEBOL is top table everywhere but UEFA, and even there it's still 2nd tier & able to beat 1st tier teams.  Even Bolivia would routinely qualify for the world cup anywhere else and would certainly make most EuroCups.  Having balls & being gutsy on your first appearance for Chile vs Argentina is not nothing.  Scoring on your first international start is not nothing.  Getting an assist on your 2nd internatioanl start vs Uruguay is not nothing.

But i get it.  Rovers overpaid 3yrs ago.  Boo hoo!

Edited June 26, 2021 by LordBaltimore

[tomphil]

12 minutes ago, LordBaltimore said:

Dude, you've got to let that fee shit go.  He wasnt bought 6wks ago but 3yr ago.  There is a certain amount of arrogance in your posts.  You seem to think that somehow BB or his agent have pulled a fast one on these poor ignorant backwards South Americans.  There are reasons Brereton was scouted beyond his ability to obtain a chilean passport. 

There are reasons Marcelo Bielsa [one of the best coaches in the world who does not follow young players willy nilly] has scouted him for Leeds not based on his last 2wks but for the last 2yrs. There are reasons he has been personally recommended to Real Sociedad by their former coach & current chile manager Lasarte, who sees what he does on the practice pitch against players far better than his Rovers team mates.  There are reasons he has earned the respect of his fellow players on the Chile team.   And there are reasons he has become a household name all over South America.  They all have to do with Brereton's attributes both on and off the pitch.  He has EARNED it all himself.   And all without speaking any Spanish and coming from a completely alien footballing culture [from a Chilean perspective].

Rovers have been a stone in his shoes.  Rovers have had him for 3yrs and still dont quite know where to play him.  He is surrounded by mediocrity from top to bottom.  That is on Rovers.  He will thrive anywhere else, as he is showing.

How easily you rubbish the South American opposition he has faced, another example of your arrogance and i will add ignorance of what South American football is actually like.  Mid table CONMEBOL is top table everywhere but UEFA, and even there it's still 2nd tier & able to beat 1st tier teams.  Even Bolivia would routinely qualify for the world cup anywhere else and would certainly make most EuroCups.  Having balls & being gutsy on your first appearance for Chile vs Argentina is not nothing.  Scoring on your first international start is not nothing.  Getting an assist on your 2nd internatioanl start vs Uruguay is not nothing.

But i get it.  Rovers overpaid 3yrs ago.  Boo hoo!

It isn't on Rovers it's on Mowbray the buck stops with him in regards to Brereton. He now, predictably has popped up and seems to be implying he's responsible for Ben hitting it off in Chile.

Odd when like you say he hasn't hit it off here really in 3 years under the manager who bought him. And coaches him daily yet the min he's away he looks right in place.

Tony Mowbray ISN'T Blackburn Rovers fc although you'd be forgiven for thinking so at times.

 

By the way what is your connection to him ?  Because there obviously is one unless you are just obsessed like.

Edited June 26, 2021 by tomphil

[Oldgregg86]

I would add those average players have kept brereton deservedly out of the team for nearly three years. He really isn’t all that. Mowbray has a part to play in brereton progression or lack of but in time I’m convinced he will show he isn’t anything but an average championship player and I never thought I’d even say that 12 months ago

[Silas]

15 minutes ago, LordBaltimore said:

Rovers have been a stone in his shoes.  

Steady on now.

It works 2 ways yeah. Rovers have paid him millions over the last few years. Have given him valuable game time to help his progression. The fans, in general, have been amazingly patient and given him a lot of backing. 

The grand result is that we've seen very little return on that investment, both financial and emotional. 

Now that is probably for a variety of reasons- injury problems, not being trusted, being played in odd positions, a poor outdated manager, a crisis of confidence etc etc- but it could easily be argued that he's been a spoke in our wheels. 

The rest of your post makes some very valid and sensible points. Just think a comment like this, on a Rovers messageboard, is not doing you any favours. You haven't been here for the last 3 years that we've all been willing him to succeed. 

[roversfan99]

24 minutes ago, LordBaltimore said:

Dude, you've got to let that fee shit go.  He wasnt bought 6wks ago but 3yr ago.  There is a certain amount of arrogance in your posts.  You seem to think that somehow BB or his agent have pulled a fast one on these poor ignorant backwards South Americans.  There are reasons Brereton was scouted beyond his ability to obtain a chilean passport. 

There are reasons Marcelo Bielsa [one of the best coaches in the world who does not follow young players willy nilly] has scouted him for Leeds not based on his last 2wks but for the last 2yrs. There are reasons he has been personally recommended to Real Sociedad by their former coach & current chile manager Lasarte, who sees what he does on the practice pitch against players far better than his Rovers team mates.  There are reasons he has earned the respect of his fellow players on the Chile team.   And there are reasons he has become a household name all over South America.  They all have to do with Brereton's attributes both on and off the pitch.  He has EARNED it all himself.   And all without speaking any Spanish and coming from a completely alien footballing culture [from a Chilean perspective].

Rovers have been a stone in his shoes.  Rovers have had him for 3yrs and still dont quite know where to play him.  He is surrounded by mediocrity from top to bottom.  That is on Rovers.  He will thrive anywhere else, as he is showing.

How easily you rubbish the South American opposition he has faced, another example of your arrogance and i will add ignorance of what South American football is actually like.  Mid table CONMEBOL is top table everywhere but UEFA, and even there it's still 2nd tier & able to beat 1st tier teams.  Even Bolivia would routinely qualify for the world cup anywhere else and would certainly make most EuroCups.  Having balls & being gutsy on your first appearance for Chile vs Argentina is not nothing.  Scoring on your first international start is not nothing.  Getting an assist on your 2nd internatioanl start vs Uruguay is not nothing.

But i get it.  Rovers overpaid 3yrs ago.  Boo hoo!

I have watched him regularly for 3 years, so I feel like I am in a position to judge and critique. Possibly more than you if you have only seen him for Chile, although if that isnt the case, my apologies.

The fee is of relevance and always will be from a club perspective, which on a Rovers forum rather than a Chile one, it very much is from the point of a club perspective. My primary criticism in regards to the fee was always spending 7m when we needed new signings across the team, rather than spending it on a player that didnt contribute at all for 2 years. 7m is a lot of money for us.

I don't think that anyone has pulled a fast one, and I am pleased that Brereton is enjoying his international football. Objectively, and I appreciate the limitations of the World Rankings, but Bolivia are 81st, considerably lower than European nations such as North Macedonia, Albania, Slovenia, Bulgaria and Montenegro who I am familiar with, and most of the Bolivian squad plays in the Bolivian League.

The links to Leeds are merely paper talk and speculation, we have no idea if Marcelo Bielsa is genuinely looking at him, I would suggest not. Same with the Sociedad links.

You say that "Rovers have been a stone in his shoes" and that "he will thrive anywhere else." May I ask how much of Rovers you have seen to come to such conclusions? Last season, he played as left of a front 3 as he did when he scored for Chile, I actually felt that he was one of few players who benefitted from the system that Mowbray played.

My main point was that it is easy to get caught up in "Brereton mania" and with the fairytale of the story, being found on Football Manager on the back of a Rovers programme interview, and indeed the general curiosity of him playing in the Copa America. I was absolutely buzzing for him when he scored v Bolivia and also watched the first half v Uruguay who are a very notable footballing country, where although he was quiet in the main, he made a very telling contribution towards the goal by Vargas. As a Rovers fan, I will still judge him on his performances for us, and I thought he did ok last season, nothing remarkable, on the back of 2 seasons in which he looked a million miles off. I am just keen not to make extreme conclusions as if he is this brilliant talent being supressed by Rovers or even Mowbray, he still at this point goes down as a very curious and ill judged signing. I hope he can continue his improvement this season.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, LordBaltimore said:

Rovers have been a stone in his shoes.  Rovers have had him for 3yrs and still dont quite know where to play him.  He is surrounded by mediocrity from top to bottom.  That is on Rovers.  He will thrive anywhere else, as he is showing.

Was it on Rovers when he fell over in the box with the ball at his feet and an open goal in front of him?

He's been very average for the most part. He's improved in the last 12 months. Lets not get carried away though about him thriving 'anywhere else'.

Anyway, Bradley Dack and Adan Armstrong have done ok. They've been surrounded by the same 'mediocrity'. Maybe Ben's just not as good as them?

[rigger]

2 hours ago, Ulrich said:

No-one disputes TMs issues, but whilst he is here our players are not at the standard needed, as results show.

So are you saying, if we had a different manager these players you say are not up to standard , would suddenly be of the required standard. If so, the players are of the required standard, it's a shame the manager isn't.

[tomphil]

Maybe we are being a bit harsh on the manager, maybe his talent is getting a tune out of forwards who are decent with the ball at their feet.

Pity about the midfielders and defenders though that make up the majority of a team.

All about individuals at Ewood though.

[Ewood Ace]

1 hour ago, LordBaltimore said:

Dude, you've got to let that fee shit go.  He wasnt bought 6wks ago but 3yr ago.  There is a certain amount of arrogance in your posts.  You seem to think that somehow BB or his agent have pulled a fast one on these poor ignorant backwards South Americans.  There are reasons Brereton was scouted beyond his ability to obtain a chilean passport. 

Brereton and his agent are geniuses to firstly get him bought for £7 million (a fee that even 3 years on he isn't worth), secondly to get himself an international call up and thirdly to get his name linked with clubs like Leeds and Sociedad which are most likely total nonsense.

1 hour ago, LordBaltimore said:

Rovers have been a stone in his shoes.  Rovers have had him for 3yrs and still dont quite know where to play him.  He is surrounded by mediocrity from top to bottom.  That is on Rovers.  He will thrive anywhere else, as he is showing.

You talk about mediocrity, mediocre at the very best is all that Brereton has ever been in 3 years at the club and most of the time he has been poor and it is very debatable if he even get's into our best starting 11.

1 hour ago, LordBaltimore said:

How easily you rubbish the South American opposition he has faced, another example of your arrogance and i will add ignorance of what South American football is actually like.  Mid table CONMEBOL is top table everywhere but UEFA, and even there it's still 2nd tier & able to beat 1st tier teams.  Even Bolivia would routinely qualify for the world cup anywhere else and would certainly make most EuroCups.  Having balls & being gutsy on your first appearance for Chile vs Argentina is not nothing.  Scoring on your first international start is not nothing.  Getting an assist on your 2nd internatioanl start vs Uruguay is not nothing.

South American football is no way near as strong as it was, one only needs to have watched this Copa America to know that, in fact it is rather sad to see how poor the standard has become. At the last World Cup no South American side made it past the quarter final, no South American side has won the World Cup since 2002 and they have only had 1 finalist in the last 4 finals. 

There is no chance whatsoever that Bolivia would qualify for the World Cup if they were based in Europe and it is very unlikely if they would in Asia. 

Also during this tournament Bolivia haven't been at full strength, so it was hardly an elite full strength national team he scored against.  As for Brereton's assist, assists are pointless a stat all it was an easy lay off by Brereton, all the credit should to go to Vargas for his run and finish.

I didn't see the game against Uruguay the other morning but I did see his other three games and I thought he did decently but to read your posts you'd think South America was witnessing the new Maradona. 

[DeeCee]

1 hour ago, LordBaltimore said:

Dude, you've got to let that fee shit go.  He wasnt bought 6wks ago but 3yr ago.  There is a certain amount of arrogance in your posts.  You seem to think that somehow BB or his agent have pulled a fast one on these poor ignorant backwards South Americans.  There are reasons Brereton was scouted beyond his ability to obtain a chilean passport. 

There are reasons Marcelo Bielsa [one of the best coaches in the world who does not follow young players willy nilly] has scouted him for Leeds not based on his last 2wks but for the last 2yrs. There are reasons he has been personally recommended to Real Sociedad by their former coach & current chile manager Lasarte, who sees what he does on the practice pitch against players far better than his Rovers team mates.  There are reasons he has earned the respect of his fellow players on the Chile team.   And there are reasons he has become a household name all over South America.  They all have to do with Brereton's attributes both on and off the pitch.  He has EARNED it all himself.   And all without speaking any Spanish and coming from a completely alien footballing culture [from a Chilean perspective].

Rovers have been a stone in his shoes.  Rovers have had him for 3yrs and still dont quite know where to play him.  He is surrounded by mediocrity from top to bottom.  That is on Rovers.  He will thrive anywhere else, as he is showing.

How easily you rubbish the South American opposition he has faced, another example of your arrogance and i will add ignorance of what South American football is actually like.  Mid table CONMEBOL is top table everywhere but UEFA, and even there it's still 2nd tier & able to beat 1st tier teams.  Even Bolivia would routinely qualify for the world cup anywhere else and would certainly make most EuroCups.  Having balls & being gutsy on your first appearance for Chile vs Argentina is not nothing.  Scoring on your first international start is not nothing.  Getting an assist on your 2nd internatioanl start vs Uruguay is not nothing.

But i get it.  Rovers overpaid 3yrs ago.  Boo hoo!

Wow!

 

[chaddyrovers]

17 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

No evidence whatsoever that Pike and McBride are capable of playing Championship football. They should have been tested in the dead rubbers, as it is, we cant rely upon them as it stands. If they do break through, bonus, but we cant count in them as squad players when they havent kicked a ball in the first team.

Every year we have supposedly half an under 23 team that "should be part of the first team this year" but it doesnt work like that.

You could have said that about Travis or Nyambe or Raya couldn't you before you gave them game time to prove his worth. 

have you ever been to watch the under 23's or under 18's before the pandemic stop fans attending games?

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You could have said that about Travis or Nyambe or Raya couldn't you before you gave them game time to prove his worth. 

have you ever been to watch the under 23's or under 18's before the pandemic stop fans attending games?

You clearly haven't read or understood my point. I am very happy for them to be given a chance should it be felt that it is warranted, I encourage it. But it should be seen as a bonus, and not just assumed that players who haven't kicked a ball in senior football can be considered as alternatives to signing new players to fill spaces in the squad.

[had.e.nuff]

how have we got 137 pages on signing nobody

[bazza]

2 hours ago, LordBaltimore said:

Dude, you've got to let that fee shit go. 

 

Agree with you x1000

[roversfan99]

Take the fee out of it, assume it was 1m rather than 7m. He looked no better than dross such as Joe Nuttall and Dominic Samuel in his first 2 years and would have been a poor purchase even then. Much improved last season comparatively and was useful, but you take the novelty of the Chile call up away, do we really think that Leeds or Real Sociedad are genuinely interested in him, and does he stand out for a bottom half Championship side? No.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Take the fee out of it, assume it was 1m rather than 7m. He looked no better than dross such as Joe Nuttall and Dominic Samuel in his first 2 years and would have been a poor purchase even then. Much improved last season comparatively and was useful, but you take the novelty of the Chile call up away, do we really think that Leeds or Real Sociedad are genuinely interested in him, and does he stand out for a bottom half Championship side? No.

Completely agree. The Leeds/Sociedad links are lazy journalism and a complete BreretonMania side effect. Happy for him, he was good last year and could continue to be good next year. Is he worth more than we signed him for? No. Is he ready to play in the Premier League or the Spanish 1st? No.

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Completely agree. The Leeds/Sociedad links are lazy journalism and a complete BreretonMania side effect. Happy for him, he was good last year and could continue to be good next year. Is he worth more than we signed him for? No. Is he ready to play in the Premier League or the Spanish 1st? No.

Indeed, he isnt even worth half of his fee.

[chaddyrovers]

22 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You clearly haven't read or understood my point. I am very happy for them to be given a chance should it be felt that it is warranted, I encourage it. But it should be seen as a bonus, and not just assumed that players who haven't kicked a ball in senior football can be considered as alternatives to signing new players to fill spaces in the squad.

The academy job is to produce players good enough for our first team squad and thats we invested so much in the academy and have category one status. Venkys have always invested in this and one good thing of their reign. 

so I don't get the bonus thing. 

I would rather give our young players like Pike or McBride then sign players who aren't any better than our first 11 players and used them as back up. 

[Waggy76]

32 minutes ago, had.e.nuff said:

how have we got 137 pages on signing nobody

They will be a lot more pages to read before we do ...

[J*B]

43 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Completely agree. The Leeds/Sociedad links are lazy journalism and a complete BreretonMania side effect. Happy for him, he was good last year and could continue to be good next year. Is he worth more than we signed him for? No. Is he ready to play in the Premier League or the Spanish 1st? No.

It’s not lazy journalism - Bielsa wants him. 

[Miller11]

3 hours ago, LordBaltimore said:

Dude, you've got to let that fee shit go.  He wasnt bought 6wks ago but 3yr ago.  There is a certain amount of arrogance in your posts.  You seem to think that somehow BB or his agent have pulled a fast one on these poor ignorant backwards South Americans.  There are reasons Brereton was scouted beyond his ability to obtain a chilean passport. 

There are reasons Marcelo Bielsa [one of the best coaches in the world who does not follow young players willy nilly] has scouted him for Leeds not based on his last 2wks but for the last 2yrs. There are reasons he has been personally recommended to Real Sociedad by their former coach & current chile manager Lasarte, who sees what he does on the practice pitch against players far better than his Rovers team mates.  There are reasons he has earned the respect of his fellow players on the Chile team.   And there are reasons he has become a household name all over South America.  They all have to do with Brereton's attributes both on and off the pitch.  He has EARNED it all himself.   And all without speaking any Spanish and coming from a completely alien footballing culture [from a Chilean perspective].

Rovers have been a stone in his shoes.  Rovers have had him for 3yrs and still dont quite know where to play him.  He is surrounded by mediocrity from top to bottom.  That is on Rovers.  He will thrive anywhere else, as he is showing.

How easily you rubbish the South American opposition he has faced, another example of your arrogance and i will add ignorance of what South American football is actually like.  Mid table CONMEBOL is top table everywhere but UEFA, and even there it's still 2nd tier & able to beat 1st tier teams.  Even Bolivia would routinely qualify for the world cup anywhere else and would certainly make most EuroCups.  Having balls & being gutsy on your first appearance for Chile vs Argentina is not nothing.  Scoring on your first international start is not nothing.  Getting an assist on your 2nd internatioanl start vs Uruguay is not nothing.

But i get it.  Rovers overpaid 3yrs ago.  Boo hoo!

Why should we “let the fee shit go”. We look to be heading into an embargo this summer, which may well impact on our survival in the second tier, so we have every right to question it. I’m happy enough for Brereton to be getting these opportunities (although I will be annoyed if its cost us another million quid to Forest), but I don’t give a shit about the Chilean national team in the medium or long term. I care about all aspects of my club though.

And as for your comments about us being a stone in his shoe, and Brereton being surrounded by mediocrity… we have had hundreds of better players than Brereton even in my lifetime. He isn’t even anywhere close to being our best player currently. If he hadn’t got this call up he’d have only ever have gone on to be talked about in discussions about worst ever signings along with Kevin Davies and Corrado Grabbi. As it is, he will probably go down as in interesting curiosity and the answer to a trivia question in a decades time. You talk about him like he’s a stifled Pele.

You are by your own admission not a Rovers fan. You are a Brereton obsessive, so stick to the Brereton thread. If a Preston fan came in here making comments like that they’d be banned from here.

[roversfan99]

33 minutes ago, J*B said:

It’s not lazy journalism - Bielsa wants him. 

How do you know? Seems far fetched to me, newspaper gossip.

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

The academy job is to produce players good enough for our first team squad and thats we invested so much in the academy and have category one status. Venkys have always invested in this and one good thing of their reign. 

so I don't get the bonus thing. 

I would rather give our young players like Pike or McBride then sign players who aren't any better than our first 11 players and used them as back up. 

Because we havent the foggiest if they are anywhere near good enough. By all means give them a chance but only depend on them as part of the squad once they have proven their competence at this level. Dont refrain from signing players as a result.

We shouldnt be signing crap players who dont make our team anyway, thats a given. The options arent between untested kids and rubbish squad players.

Nothing is good about Venkys either. The academy was always producing, of course the standard required within the first team at our level is just much lower compared to when they joined.

[J*B]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

How do you know? Seems far fetched to me, newspaper gossip.

Because Ben’s been told so. I can’t see it coming to anything myself. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, J*B said:

Because Ben’s been told so. I can’t see it coming to anything myself. 

By who? Bielsa is a footballing nut who watches every game but I doubt that Brereton is seriously on his recruitment radar.