Summer transfer window 2021.

[Ewood Ace]

16 minutes ago, unsall said:

So if a player is injured he’s a waste of space

Well he isn't much use to the club is he.

16 minutes ago, unsall said:

So if a player is injured he’s a waste of space, pathetic, like I said Dack is propping up the treatment table but he’s ok is he? Do you think he’s made the injury up, how can you be an utter waste of space when he’s out injured..

Dack has done a lot for this club. What has Ayala done apart from prop up the treatment table? Dack also started and ended the season with an ACL and yet he still played more games than Ayala. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Ewood Ace

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, unsall said:

Not sure you get it, you have a medical and pass it, you sign the player, he got the groin injury later on, think your last paragraph is really what you mean, re the owners and manager etc, to most level headed fan it looked a decent signing but no one can predict injuries..

According to transfermark.co.uk he missed six games with a groin injury. I remember him going off at Watford and missing several subsequent games with a hamstring injury. He was also out with ankle and calf injuries, the latter sustained whilst doing a warm up with the under 23's. He has been injury prone throughout his career and giving him a three year deal when he was nearly 30 was madness.

[roversfan99]

As we head into pre-season with no new recruits or indeed seemingly any sign of any, it is striking how paper thin and inexperienced our squad looks. Assuming that Rankin Costello and the post Copa America Brereton are in the opening day squad and we get no injuries (with a few rather prone to them) over pre-season, and that Armstrong (and indeed everyone) stays or is directly replaced, all massive assumptions, I have our squad down as something like this:

Kaminski, Nyambe, Lenihan, Ayala, PIckering, Johnson, Travis, Rothwell, Gallagher, Armstrong, Brereton

Subs: Pears, Carter, Dolan, Chapman, Davenport, Buckley

A big issue is the lack of experience and the seemingly lack of character. You strip away all of that experience that we have lost, correctly in terms of not warranting new deals, but then you factor in that we are likely to be reliant on the loan market, borrowing kids on top of an already very young squad doesn't bode well. 

Contracts are also another mismanaged area, Lenihan, Armstrong, Nyambe, Rothwell and Brereton amongst others all going into their final year. Chuck in a rubbish manager and you struggle to see much to get excited about. Take Armstrong's goals out and its a squeeze to stay up surely.

[simongarnerisgod]

5 minutes ago, arbitro said:

According to transfermark.co.uk he missed six games with a groin injury. I remember him going off at Watford and missing several subsequent games with a hamstring injury. He was also out with ankle and calf injuries, the latter sustained whilst doing a warm up with the under 23's. He has been injury prone throughout his career and giving him a three year deal when he was nearly 30 was madness.

the pears deal runs it close as well,nepotism,incompetence and pointlessness,we  already had four keepers on the books,we did`nt need another one,especially one who frankly is ******* useless

[dallydally]

40 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

That and 28 goals.

Neither are Premiership quality 28 goals or not

[neophox]

Adam Reach seems to be coming. 

[unsall]

1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

Well he isn't much use to the club is he.

Dack has done a lot for this club. What has Ayala done apart from prop up the treatment table? Dack also started and ended the season with an ACL and yet he still played more games than Ayala. 

Yeah we know, but if you get injured early on that’s life, how the hell can he show what he can do if he’s injured…

[roversfan99]

28 minutes ago, neophox said:

Adam Reach seems to be coming. 

Says who?

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

As we head into pre-season with no new recruits or indeed seemingly any sign of any, it is striking how paper thin and inexperienced our squad looks. Assuming that Rankin Costello and the post Copa America Brereton are in the opening day squad and we get no injuries (with a few rather prone to them) over pre-season, and that Armstrong (and indeed everyone) stays or is directly replaced, all massive assumptions, I have our squad down as something like this:

Kaminski, Nyambe, Lenihan, Ayala, PIckering, Johnson, Travis, Rothwell, Gallagher, Armstrong, Brereton

Subs: Pears, Carter, Dolan, Chapman, Davenport, Buckley

A big issue is the lack of experience and the seemingly lack of character. You strip away all of that experience that we have lost, correctly in terms of not warranting new deals, but then you factor in that we are likely to be reliant on the loan market, borrowing kids on top of an already very young squad doesn't bode well. 

Some good points, well actually some terrible points (from Rovers pov) that are well made. Experience is pretty limited. And as you say this is a best case scenario. 

There are other problems as well as the ones you point out. Firstly Gally on the wing - a terrible waste of his attributes and hasn't worked for years. Johnson is just as likely to have a bad game as a good one, if not more so. In fact he is an utter liability for a third of the games he plays. Bereton for all his international exploits has still looked poor in a fair number of Rovers games, as well as menacing in others. We can't be certain Pickering will make the step up. And at centre half there's huge questions as to what ability a player will come back with after a serious injury, even assuming they have returned to fitness (Greako and Thompson spring to mind.) And to reiterate your point - this is the best case scenario. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Contracts are also another mismanaged area, Lenihan, Armstrong, Nyambe, Rothwell and Brereton amongst others all going into their final year. Chuck in a rubbish manager and you struggle to see much to get excited about. Take Armstrong's goals out and its a squeeze to stay up surely.

Losing that many players is going to kill the team and arguably our Championship status. I'm sure some of them will run down their contracts - it's the way these days. How do we replace them when even when we sell them we'll get a fraction of their value? And this is on top of any others who need replacing. Johnson won't last more than a year too. So we potentially are looking at 5 players needing replacing from the first 11. And it's not beyond the realms of possibility that cover for Ayala will be needed. In short half a team. It's a very worrying sign. 

Have to say it's the only building project I have seen that goes backwards. We have to get the close season transfers totally right. And that's a huge ask even for a competent one much less TM 

 

[roversfan99]

22 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Some good points, well actually some terrible points (from Rovers pov) that are well made. Experience is pretty limited. And as you say this is a best case scenario. 

There are other problems as well as the ones you point out. Firstly Gally on the wing - a terrible waste of his attributes and hasn't worked for years. Johnson is just as likely to have a bad game as a good one, if not more so. In fact he is an utter liability for a third of the games he plays. Bereton for all his international exploits has still looked poor in a fair number of Rovers games, as well as menacing in others. We can't be certain Pickering will make the step up. And at centre half there's huge questions as to what ability a player will come back with after a serious injury, even assuming they have returned to fitness (Greako and Thompson spring to mind.) And to reiterate your point - this is the best case scenario. 

Losing that many players is going to kill the team and arguably our Championship status. I'm sure some of them will run down their contracts - it's the way these days. How do we replace them when even when we sell them we'll get a fraction of their value? And this is on top of any others who need replacing. Johnson won't last more than a year too. So we potentially are looking at 5 players needing replacing from the first 11. And it's not beyond the realms of possibility that cover for Ayala will be needed. In short half a team. It's a very worrying sign. 

Have to say it's the only building project I have seen that goes backwards. We have to get the close season transfers totally right. And that's a huge ask even for a competent one much less TM 

 

Would agree with all of your points, my team was what I expect to see, but in regards to quality, depth and the contractual situation, bang on the money. A further worry is the age/experience being skewed even further towards youth on the back of the release of the experience that we had, and the inevitable loaning of kids. Overseen by Mowbray too! Worrying.

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, unsall said:

Not sure you get it, you have a medical and pass it, you sign the player, he got the groin injury later on, think your last paragraph is really what you mean, re the owners and manager etc, to most level headed fan it looked a decent signing but no one can predict injuries..

I get it okay!

Even Vince Grella passed a medical when the Rovers' Sports Science team was, IMO, far more clued-up than today's set-up!  A medical DOES NOT measure how the body will stand up to physical stresses and strains, however, a player's track record will give you a pretty good indicator.

Ayala hadn't kicked a ball in anger for 8 months through when we signed him and you only need to have read the M'boro forums to see what they thought of Ayala and injury!!!  The alarm bells should have been screaming in the heads of Waggott and Mowbray especially given Ayala's age!!!!

Some players are injury prone as we know to our cost - look how many games even some of our younger players have missed with injury (Nyambe, Lenihan, Davenport, Rankin-Costello, Travis etc).  I would put money on each of those 5 players missing at least half a dozen games this coming season through injury.  You can predict injuries, given a player's track record, with a high degree of certainty!!!!

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Mercer

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

As we head into pre-season with no new recruits or indeed seemingly any sign of any, it is striking how paper thin and inexperienced our squad looks.

As I said in the Fylde match day thread our Squad is hardly inexperience when you got players likes of Kaminski, Armstrong, Lenihan, Ayala and Johnson with plenty of appearances, then you have Travis, Nyambe, Pickering, Rothwell, Gallagher, Brereton have over 100 appearances at club football so hardly inexperienced are they? Scott Wharton has 90 appearances at club level. 

I see this has opportunity to bring through players like Carter, Pike, Vale, Mcbride, Butterworth into our 1st team match day squad. 

Yes we need some signings like centre defensive midfielder, centre back, back up left back, a left side winger and possibly Armstrong replacement. Where do you think we need strengthen this summer? And is there any players you think we missed out on trying to sign so far this summer? If so any names?

 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

As I said in the Fylde match day thread our Squad is hardly inexperience when you got players likes of Kaminski, Armstrong, Lenihan, Ayala and Johnson with plenty of appearances, then you have Travis, Nyambe, Pickering, Rothwell, Gallagher, Brereton have over 100 appearances at club football so hardly inexperienced are they? Scott Wharton has 90 appearances at club level. 

I see this has opportunity to bring through players like Carter, Pike, Vale, Mcbride, Butterworth into our 1st team match day squad. 

Yes we need some signings like centre defensive midfielder, centre back, back up left back, a left side winger and possibly Armstrong replacement. Where do you think we need strengthen this summer? And is there any players you think we missed out on trying to sign so far this summer? If so any names?

 

I think we need a new manager first and foremost and that cant be forgotten. But then a left back to challenge (not be back up) to Pickering, a centre back, a right back, at least one defensive midfielder, an attacking midfielder, and at least one winger. Then of course a good striker to replace Armstrong, in which case we may need an additional further attacking player. 

If we are counting players like Wharton, Pickering, Brereton and Travis as experienced players then we are in a muddle.

Of the 5 youngsters you mention, I would probably loan out 2 or 3. Vale couldnt get near Rochdales team, why is he suddenly good enough to be part of our squad? Butterworth needs some regular game time to see if his body can cope rather than 10 minutes here and there. Carter perhaps keep until January at which point Wharton will be fully fit and maybe a loan spell would suit Carter. The other 2, either loan or in the under 23s but of course supplementing the first team. Are we allowed 7 subs or 9? We cant expect all 5 to be all good enough and more importantly to give them all the game time required.

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think we need a new manager first and foremost and that cant be forgotten. 

We both said already so do we need to keep repeating it

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But then a left back to challenge (not be back up) to Pickering, a centre back, a right back, at least one defensive midfielder, an attacking midfielder, and at least one winger. Then of course a good striker to replace Armstrong, 

Don't need a right back when you got Pike here. Give his games and develop here. 

Attacking midfielder? 

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If we are counting players like Wharton, Pickering, Brereton and Travis as experienced players then we are in a muddle.

Pickering has nearly 150 games, Brereton and Travis over 100 games each. 

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Vale couldnt get near Rochdales team, why is he suddenly good enough to be part of our squad? Butterworth needs some regular game time to see if his body can cope rather than 10 minutes here and there. Carter perhaps keep until January at which point Wharton will be fully fit and maybe a loan spell would suit Carter. 

Carter is 22 years in December so he is either going to be part of the squad or not. 

Wasn't Vale injured at Rochdale? 

16 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Are we allowed 7 subs or 9? We cant expect all 5 to be all good enough and more importantly to give them all the game time required.

Hope it's 3 subs per game allow from 7 subs. 

[Fraserkirky]

You can pencil this out for now

Kamy 

Nyambe Lenihan Ayala Pickering

JRC Buckley Travis Rothwell 

Armstrong Brereton

I think that is pretty strong, if a sensible person came in and tried to play a 4-4-2

I would be looking at a Centre Half, on loan, as I don’t trust Ayala or the kids, and frankly Lenihan goes through a spell every year when he looks like he has no idea what he is suppose to be doing. High hopes for Carter. 

Adam Reach can fill in either left back or left mid. Sensible signing.

Centre Midfielder is a must, maybe two, sign like Johanson and then get Leshabela lad on loan. Like the look of the Hannibal kid at Man Utd too for a loan.

Forwards I’m okay with for now. Would like to see McBride get plenty of time in preseason.

So a CB on loan, Adam Reach, Stefan Johanson, CM on Loan.

Thats all just before we sell anybody.
 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Fraserkirky

[unsall]

7 hours ago, Mercer said:

I get it okay!

Even Vince Grella passed a medical when the Rovers' Sports Science team was, IMO, far more clued-up than today's set-up!  A medical DOES NOT measure how the body will stand up to physical stresses and strains, however, a player's track record will give you a pretty good indicator.

Ayala hadn't kicked a ball in anger for 8 months through when we signed him and you only need to have read the M'boro forums to see what they thought of Ayala and injury!!!  The alarm bells should have been screaming in the heads of Waggott and Mowbray especially given Ayala's age!!!!

Some players are injury prone as we know to our cost - look how many games even some of our younger players have missed with injury (Nyambe, Lenihan, Davenport, Rankin-Costello, Travis etc).  I would put money on each of those 5 players missing at least half a dozen games this coming season through injury.  You can predict injuries, given a player's track record, with a high degree of certainty!!!!

 

There’s far more injuries these  days due to pitches and footwear than there used to be, obviously some are more prone to injury than others, the ones you mentioned are mostly high tempo players, it happens at every club.

[tomphil]

More injuries than there used to be ? With less tackles allowed, less elbows, in most cases better playing and training surfaces ?

Come off it you're sounding like Mowbray now.

The only thing that stands up there is the footwear theory. Also it's a nailed on fact Rovers medical dept is half what it used to be. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by tomphil

[rigger]

12 minutes ago, tomphil said:

More injuries than there used to be ? With less tackles allowed, less elbows, in most cases better playing and training surfaces ?

Come off it you're sounding like Mowbray now.

The only thing that stands up there is the footwear theory. Also it's a nailed on fact Rovers medical dept is half what it used to be. 

I have always wondered how much faster the lighter boots actually make a player. When you consider the amount of injuries they seem to cause, is it worthwhile ?

[unsall]

17 minutes ago, rigger said:

I have always wondered how much faster the lighter boots actually make a player. When you consider the amount of injuries they seem to cause, is it worthwhile ?

Agree, not worth it, most injuries happen because of the light boots, I’m sure they could make them more protective without losing too much speed etc.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

I have always wondered how much faster the lighter boots actually make a player. When you consider the amount of injuries they seem to cause, is it worthwhile ?

I started wearing them once and never liked them they just didn't feel right and that was years ago. Presume they are even lighter and more flexible now so it's no wonder.

There was an epidemic of metatarsal injuries when they first started with the lighter boots. Some high profile players fell foul of that.

Players in general though seem more fragile as being trained in academies from such a young age puts strain on body parts before they've developed. They are also more athletic and seem lighter and less bulky than the recent past. So less to absorb the impact etc.

I'm not having it that there are more injuries these days though due to pitches etc.

That is nonsense. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

4 hours ago, tomphil said:

More injuries than there used to be ? With less tackles allowed, less elbows, in most cases better playing and training surfaces ?

Come off it you're sounding like Mowbray now.

The only thing that stands up there is the footwear theory. Also it's a nailed on fact Rovers medical dept is half what it used to be. 

The game is played much faster with higher intensity now, so more muscle injuries. Jim Brannigan was never going to pull his hamstring as Nyambe does because he never went down the wing and never had to race back. 

[RevidgeBlue]

6 hours ago, unsall said:

There’s far more injuries these  days due to pitches and footwear than there used to be, obviously some are more prone to injury than others, the ones you mentioned are mostly high tempo players, it happens at every club.

True in general but imo you're talking rubbish about Ayala's injury woes being unforeseeable, If he's that good why didn't Warnock want to keep him?

Plus speak to any fans of the Club's he's been at previously and he seems to have a reputation for going AWOL around Christmas every season.

[roversfan99]

12 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

You can pencil this out for now

Kamy 

Nyambe Lenihan Ayala Pickering

JRC Buckley Travis Rothwell 

Armstrong Brereton

I think that is pretty strong, if a sensible person came in and tried to play a 4-4-2

I would be looking at a Centre Half, on loan, as I don’t trust Ayala or the kids, and frankly Lenihan goes through a spell every year when he looks like he has no idea what he is suppose to be doing. High hopes for Carter. 

Adam Reach can fill in either left back or left mid. Sensible signing.

Centre Midfielder is a must, maybe two, sign like Johanson and then get Leshabela lad on loan. Like the look of the Hannibal kid at Man Utd too for a loan.

Forwards I’m okay with for now. Would like to see McBride get plenty of time in preseason.

So a CB on loan, Adam Reach, Stefan Johanson, CM on Loan.

Thats all just before we sell anybody.
 

Where would you expect such a squad to finish under Mowbray, out of interest? Surely with a weaker squad we will be lower in the table?

Assuming that they are similar to Harvey Elliott and Taylor Harwod-Bellis, which is a high standard of loanee, one that has quality that we couldn't normally afford, then that is all well and good, on the top of a squad with the required levels of experience. When you lose the experience that we have done through Holtby, Evans, Bennett etc, correctly so, but call up academy graduates to replace them then start signing loanees who havent played much if any senior football, it seems a recipe for disaster to me especially if we are scrapping at the wrong end of the table.

Reach has been mentioned a lot but he is obviously a downgrade on Elliott, and if Armstrong inevitably goes and we do not bring in a 28 goal striker to replace him, obviously a nigh on impossible task, the whole picture changes. Who is competing to play at left back in your squad?

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Where would you expect such a squad to finish under Mowbray, out of interest? Surely with a weaker squad we will be lower in the table?

Assuming that they are similar to Harvey Elliott and Taylor Harwod-Bellis, which is a high standard of loanee, one that has quality that we couldn't normally afford, then that is all well and good, on the top of a squad with the required levels of experience. When you lose the experience that we have done through Holtby, Evans, Bennett etc, correctly so, but call up academy graduates to replace them then start signing loanees who havent played much if any senior football, it seems a recipe for disaster to me especially if we are scrapping at the wrong end of the table.

Reach has been mentioned a lot but he is obviously a downgrade on Elliott, and if Armstrong inevitably goes and we do not bring in a 28 goal striker to replace him, obviously a nigh on impossible task, the whole picture changes. Who is competing to play at left back in your squad?

 

Under Mowbray, this is the problem, however another manager could cash in on Armstrong, invest the money where needed and we could finish higher up the table. So selling him isn't really the problem, it goes back to the elephant in the room, Mowbray 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[chaddyrovers]

@roversfan99is there any players that have signed for other clubs that you want have like us to sign?.

Weren't you in favour Rovers not offering new contracts to Bennett, Bell, Evans, Downing and Holtby? 

Who would you target to replace Armstrong if he was to leave?