Summer transfer window 2021.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

does he a direct replacement for Armstrong and fit the way Mowbray wants to play? 

Don't we want a pacey striker who has good movement and score goals? 

well if teams aren't willing our valuation on him then its no deal. Southampton will need at least 1 striker as Ings hasn't signed a new contract so he only has 12 months left on his deal and has been linked with Man City and Spurs this morning. 

Well he is already one of the highest paid player at the club and it has been mention before as Alan Nixon did an article a few weeks ago about selling Rothwell to fund a pay rise to Make Armstrong new contract and on higher wages. 

What way does Mowbray want to play next season ? Do you know ? Does he know ? Because I don’t.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[chaddyrovers]

3 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What way does Mowbray want to play next season ? Do you know ? Does he know ? Because I don’t.

He has made enough comments about the way he wants to play and this style has been implemented through the club age groups. 

do we need to keep going this again and again?

[JHRover]

19 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Well he is already one of the highest paid player at the club and it has been mention before as Alan Nixon did an article a few weeks ago about selling Rothwell to fund a pay rise to Make Armstrong new contract and on higher wages. 

Why not use the wages freed up from the 15 other players that have all gone and not been replaced?

Why not dip into the slush fund we had when Mowbray wanted to give Smallwood, Samuel and Graham new deals last summer?

[blue_n_white99]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

He has made enough comments about the way he wants to play and this style has been implemented through the club age groups. 

do we need to keep going this again and again?

Results and our league position make a compelling argument that way he wants to play doesn't work the way he set us up. Rovers are very thin on numbers and are likely to lose our only real goal threat in the next few weeks. So how are we likely to transform from the shambles of last season to being top 6 material? There's more chance of me dating a super model than Rovers making top 6 and I'm a retired ex squaddie that has a bald head and no fortune.

 

[Paul Mellelieu]

2 minutes ago, blue_n_white99 said:

Results and our league position make a compelling argument that way he wants to play doesn't work the way he set us up. Rovers are very thin on numbers and are likely to lose our only real goal threat in the next few weeks. So how are we likely to transform from the shambles of last season to being top 6 material? There's more chance of me dating a super model than Rovers making top 6 and I'm a retired ex squaddie that has a bald head and no fortune.

 

And you live in Preston.....

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

well if teams aren't willing our valuation on him then its no deal. Southampton will need at least 1 striker as Ings hasn't signed a new contract so he only has 12 months left on his deal and has been linked with Man City and Spurs this morning. 

 

Nonsense.

All the cards are stacked against Rovers.

Armstrong walks for nothing in 12 months if that is what he wants.

All boils down to Armstrong.  

Think least likely option is he signs a new contract with Rovers and condemns himself to Championship mediocrity at best - think he and his agent will have a bit more sense than that.

Think Rovers will be lucky to net £7/8million after Newcastle's 40% share of any profit.

We are not in the driving seat - Armstrong and his agent know that and so do other clubs.

I think the incompetence of Waggott and Mowbray has screwed us again.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Mercer

[Bigdoggsteel]

45 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

He has made enough comments about the way he wants to play and this style has been implemented through the club age groups. 

do we need to keep going this again and again?

Yes, because you are in cloud cuckoo land. I'll answer for you. No, we don't know what formation he will play next season. 

His style is pointless possession. We saw that last season and that's why we are worried. 

Do you think having Pep as manager helps man city? Because ignoring Mowbray would suggest the manager a club has doesn't matter ,in your view. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[islander200]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

Latest 'update' on the smooth the path to transfer project is that allegedly Armstrong still has an offer on the table that would make him the club's highest paid player.

This is an interesting development. I wonder who has recently added the info about him being highest paid player into the equation? it hasn't been mentioned before....

They really must think we were born yesterday.

 

So what are you saying there isn't a new contract on the table for Armstrong?Of course there is.And yeah it most likely would make him the highest paid player at the club but he will get better elsewhere.

[roversfan99]

So, it predictably seems like the talk of an Obafemi and Armstrong swap deal is more Nixon nonsense.

We really are in a pickle with Armstrong, allowing him to get to a year left on his deal. He surely wont sign a new deal, and we seemingly are expecting an amount beyond his value, so it will either drag on until the end of the window, stopping the rest of our incoming business and setting up more excuses, or even stay for his last year and we see a valuable asset leave on a free.

39 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

does he a direct replacement for Armstrong and fit the way Mowbray wants to play? 

Don't we want a pacey striker who has good movement and score goals? 

well if teams aren't willing our valuation on him then its no deal. Southampton will need at least 1 striker as Ings hasn't signed a new contract so he only has 12 months left on his deal and has been linked with Man City and Spurs this morning. 

Well he is already one of the highest paid player at the club and it has been mention before as Alan Nixon did an article a few weeks ago about selling Rothwell to fund a pay rise to Make Armstrong new contract and on higher wages. 

I am personally just interested in good players, not ones pigeon holed into Mowbray's nonsensical tactics. I qualified my suggestion by saying that I don't think that Mowbray will sign him, and indeed if he did, he would misuse him. But he is a good Championship striker who fits the criteria of a free agent.

5 hours ago, deanives said:

With 

         Rothwell (dack) 

Travis        Davenport (or new cm) 

Pickering leninhan Wharton nyambe 

         Kaminski

Surely with the right management above, thats a top 6 team, aslong as Pickering is an improvement than our recent lbs 

I disagree that, barring a real overachievement with a top quality manager, which even then would be a push, that the above team is anything close to a top 6 side. I am not sure if any of those individuals would get into a top 6 side.

When Armstrong inevitably leaves, I have no doubt that our team is weaker than the one last season, especially without Elliott and Harwood Bellis. I think it is important to try and upgrade in numerous positions to compensate for the drop off in our main striker. Pickering could hopefully be one of those upgrades, assuming that he justifies his reputation.

Of course as you touch on, the key is the management team and whilst a top 6 finish with the above side is unrealistic IMO, we need someone to get more than the sum of its parts from a team. Sadly, we are burdened with someone who will likely underachieve.

8 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

Would be absolutely ideal

Brereton Diedhou Obafemi

I am not sure that I am overly comfortable with the idea of another striker in Obafemi shoved out wide, although it seems that there is no mileage to that rumour according to todays Lancashire Telegraph.

Diedhou would need good crosses, someone like Adam Reach (again free) may be suited to providing a player like that with service.

3 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

Butterworth is nearly 22 and hasn't started a game of professional league football yet.

Not a chance he makes it at Rovers.

You do wonder as to the extent his horrendous injury issues will have on his career.

Surely it is a sensible decision to loan him out this season and get him regular game time and judge from there. Kids football and an occasional cameo is not good for a player whose development has already stunted.

[islander200]

31 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Why not use the wages freed up from the 15 other players that have all gone and not been replaced?

Why not dip into the slush fund we had when Mowbray wanted to give Smallwood, Samuel and Graham new deals last summer?

Because they don't want to break wage cap they have.Not saying I agree with it but they offer Armstrong a lot more than the wage ceiling they have seemingly imposed, then you have the other players that are soon to be out of contract wanting more than the wage ceiling, Captain Lenihen for example.

Totally agree it's a shit show and we will most likely sell Armstrong for below market value but of course there is a new contract on the table for him.

Weren't you saying the exact same things when we were trying to extend Dacks contract?

There are enough problems at the club without you continuously peddling these nonsensical conspiracys

[roversfan99]

QPR are very busy in the market, Jimmy Dunne has signed from Burnley (talented CB) as has McAllum who is a full back/wing back who was at Coventry last season but is a loanee from Norwich.

West Brom in Mowatt and the imminent loan of Clarke at CB are starting to re-build, and Bristol City have signed Atkinson from Oxford for a fee as well as getting James and King providing experience in midfield. Vrancic is an eye catching signing for Stoke too.

Rovers meanwhile? Can tumbleweed play as a wide forward?

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

Butterworth is nearly 22 and hasn't started a game of professional league football yet.

Not a chance he makes it at Rovers.

You'll eat your words. He's a top talent and only been held back by two injuries sadly. Was immense in his half at Fylde, best player on the day.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

QPR are very busy in the market, Jimmy Dunne has signed from Burnley (talented CB) as has McAllum who is a full back/wing back who was at Coventry last season but is a loanee from Norwich.

West Brom in Mowatt and the imminent loan of Clarke at CB are starting to re-build, and Bristol City have signed Atkinson from Oxford for a fee as well as getting James and King providing experience in midfield. Vrancic is an eye catching signing for Stoke too.

Rovers meanwhile? Can tumbleweed play as a wide forward?

McAllum isn't better than our full-backs IMO.
Mowatt was always going to West Brom.
Atkinson is no better than Carter/Wharton.
Matty James signing here would've been heavily slated, same with Andy King at 32y/o.
Vrancic is a decent signing, but heavy wages for a position we aren't the most desperate in.

I get the point, we've been inactive, but there's not been any, or at least very many, deals where I've though, "f*ck we've really missed out there". 

I suspect Adam Reach & Leighton Clarkson will be the first two through the door. Two signings which for me are easily on par with the ones listed above. Granted, they aren't done yet and they certainly don't count until they're here and done.

[Beafo]

4 hours ago, JohnGo said:

I read the post and your response still doesn’t make sense 

I understood what you were saying.

[lraC]

13 minutes ago, JoeH said:

You'll eat your words. He's a top talent and only been held back by two injuries sadly. Was immense in his half at Fylde, best player on the day.

I hear some good things about him and a crop of other youngsters too. 

[JHRover]

20 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Because they don't want to break wage cap they have.Not saying I agree with it but they offer Armstrong a lot more than the wage ceiling they have seemingly imposed, then you have the other players that are soon to be out of contract wanting more than the wage ceiling, Captain Lenihen for example.

Totally agree it's a shit show and we will most likely sell Armstrong for below market value but of course there is a new contract on the table for him.

Weren't you saying the exact same things when we were trying to extend Dacks contract?

There are enough problems at the club without you continuously peddling these nonsensical conspiracys

I'm not sure what is a 'nonsensical conspiracy' about not believing that they've made Armstrong a reasonable contract offer.

Of course they are going to claim they have. No club in history has ever let their best player go without at least telling their fans that they tried to keep him.

Flip it the other way around - exactly what has the club done over the course of the last 6 months that makes you believe that there is a juicy expensive contract extension sat waiting on the table for Armstrong to sign?

Is it the fact that they can't even do the absolute basics of running a club without prior approval from India? Can't even sort out tickets or shirts let alone complex contract talks.

Or that Mowbray wanted to keep several of those out of contract yet failed to do so?

Not really a conspiracy theory. I just think the people down there are liars and will say anything to cover their own arses and avoid grief from the fans.

I fully expect a Ben Marshall scenario where he ends up admitting that there were never any talks or offer made on a new deal. Was that a conspiracy too or did that really happen?

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I'm not sure what is a 'nonsensical conspiracy' about not believing that they've made Armstrong a reasonable contract offer.

Of course they are going to claim they have. No club in history has ever let their best player go without at least telling their fans that they tried to keep him.

Flip it the other way around - exactly what has the club done over the course of the last 6 months that makes you believe that there is a juicy expensive contract extension sat waiting on the table for Armstrong to sign?

Is it the fact that they can't even do the absolute basics of running a club without prior approval from India? Can't even sort out tickets or shirts let alone complex contract talks.

Or that Mowbray wanted to keep several of those out of contract yet failed to do so?

Not really a conspiracy theory. I just think the people down there are liars and will say anything to cover their own arses and avoid grief from the fans.

I fully expect a Ben Marshall scenario where he ends up admitting that there were never any talks or offer made on a new deal. Was that a conspiracy too or did that really happen?

Why wouldn't they offer the biggest asset the club have a new deal?

Now the new contract may be way below what he would get elsewhere but I can think of no reason whatsoever why the club wouldn't offer their biggest asset a new contract.

Big difference between Marshall and Armstrong who just finished the season 2nd top scorer.

You did say the same about Dack.Like you say every summer no money will be spent on permanent signings.Like you were saying last week that the club want to be in an embargo...plenty of nonsensical stuff you come out with.With absolutely no evidence to back it up.

[perthblue02]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

He has made enough comments about the way he wants to play and this style has been implemented through the club age groups. 

do we need to keep going this again and again?

He's also made enough comments on not being interested in formations, tactics, results ,league tables etc to understand he does not know what he wants.

 

[roversfan99]

19 minutes ago, JoeH said:

You'll eat your words. He's a top talent and only been held back by two injuries sadly. Was immense in his half at Fylde, best player on the day.

HIs point was not about his ability, it was about the fact that such serious injury problems could have a huge impact on his development.

The first friendly in pre-season full of kids playing against a non league side is not any sort of barometer. For me, the only sensible option is to loan him out, he needs to start matches in senior football, probably in League 1.

14 minutes ago, JoeH said:

McAllum isn't better than our full-backs IMO.
Mowatt was always going to West Brom.
Atkinson is no better than Carter/Wharton.
Matty James signing here would've been heavily slated, same with Andy King at 32y/o.
Vrancic is a decent signing, but heavy wages for a position we aren't the most desperate in.

I get the point, we've been inactive, but there's not been any, or at least very many, deals where I've though, "f*ck we've really missed out there". 

I suspect Adam Reach & Leighton Clarkson will be the first two through the door. Two signings which for me are easily on par with the ones listed above. Granted, they aren't done yet and they certainly don't count until they're here and done.

My point was merely about teams being much more proactive than us, not inhibited by incompetent administration and negligent owners. Lets not kid that our maestro of a manager has got everything under control or is turning his nose up at these in favour of better alternatives.

Regarding the individuals though, we are in dire need of experience, our team is totally lacking in experience and character. You have dismissed Vrancic simply based on baseless speculation on his wages, he would be a huge upgrade on a central midfield we have that isnt all that convincing, whether it is players who have 5 ineffective games for every good one (Johnson, Rothwell) or players yet to establish themselves. (Davenport and Buckley) Mowatt is an excellent player although always unattainable. I think Matty James again would easily walk into our midfield, King I am less sure on. We have obviously signed Pickering permanently so a young left back on loan was never likely, I suppose McAllum has the one advantage of actually playing at Championship level (League 1 is poor) but we always should prefer our own players so we have to wait and see on Pickering. Likewise with Carter, his loan spell bodes well but he was so out of his depth for us prior and you do wonder if it is better for him to get more games in League 1, I think we need another centre back especially with Ayala's fondness for the injury table and Wharton set to miss a chunk of the season. Atkinson on the same logic again is a risk and I have not seen much if any of him.

Leighton Clarkson has barely kicked a ball in senior football so nothing to judge him on and for me not a deal I particularly hope we pursue. Reach is a weird one, his career has spiralled into nothingness and seems like a lazy link based again on Boro connections. But as you say, only counts when they are done.

[Mattyblue]

Travis was 21 before he got a proper run of games.

So I’m not too bothered about Butterworth’s age at this stage… but he just has to stay injury free for a sustained period to actually fulfil this undoubted potential and back injuries can often prove chronic.

[JHRover]

10 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Why wouldn't they offer the biggest asset the club have a new deal?

Now the new contract may be way below what he would get elsewhere but I can think of no reason whatsoever why the club wouldn't offer their biggest asset a new contract.

Big difference between Marshall and Armstrong who just finished the season 2nd top scorer.

You did say the same about Dack.Like you say every summer no money will be spent on permanent signings.Like you were saying last week that the club want to be in an embargo...plenty of nonsensical stuff you come out with.With absolutely no evidence to back it up.

I can't think of any reason why the owners would run the club the way they do, why they would be happy to flush away £20 million a year yet persist with mediocrity but hey ho, that's exactly what they do. So I'd say allowing Armstrong to go or not being arsed to give him a new deal is small fry on their list of misdemeanours.

There's actually not much difference with Marshall - he was another asset that was allowed to run his contract down, we were told time after time the club was trying to keep him (despite selling everyone else) and then when he went to Wolves he spilled the beans on the reality of the situation.

Mowbray's already used the embargo as his excuse for no business done to date. I think he's grateful for it.

 

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Nonsense.

All the cards are stacked against Rovers.

Armstrong walks for nothing in 12 months if that is what he wants.

All boils down to Armstrong.  

Think least likely option is he signs a new contract with Rovers and condemns himself to Championship mediocrity at best - think he and his agent will have a bit more sense than that.

Think Rovers will be lucky to net £7/8million after Newcastle's 40% share of any profit.

We are not in the driving seat - Armstrong and his agent know that and so do other clubs.

I think the incompetence of Waggott and Mowbray have screwed us again.

Not quite sure what Waggott and Mowbray could do differently with this. Other than offer Armstrong a new deal, what else can they do? We got him for a decent price from Newcastle and we’ve had 18 months where he’s been one of the best strikers in the league. If anything this is an example of good business rather than bad. The contract situation isn’t ideal but I can understand why Armstrong would be reluctant to sign again.

 

[rigger]

2 hours ago, roverandout said:

20 million for Armstrong? No one will pay that

7 million for Brereton ? No one will pay that. Oh wait a minute !!!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Travis was 21 before he got a proper run of games.

So I’m not too bothered about Butterworth’s age at this stage… but he just has to stay injury free for a sustained period to actually fulfil this undoubted potential and back injuries can often prove chronic.

Very true. How old was Nyambe before he finally came good and stopped making mistake after mistake too? Lenihan wasn't ready at 21 either. Sure Danny Butterworth isn't 17 like Harvey Elliott, but he has time on his side.

[roversfan99]

It is hardly as if Butterworth is finished and it isn't his age that is the issue, it is the fact that he has spent so much of his development years in the treatment room. Regular football out on loan could spark his career rather than a year of stagnation playing for the kids team.

Warnock seems to be thinking outside of the box with an Argentinian midfielder about to sign for Boro:

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/middlesbrough-confident-martin-payero-succeed-21040247