Summer transfer window 2021.

[Tugayisgod]

Corry Evans having medical at Sunderland 

[rigger]

20 hours ago, Tugayisgod said:

Corry Evans having medical at Sunderland 

They will have to hope there is a Northern Ireland game imminent.

Edited July 15, 2021 by rigger

[rigger]

47 minutes ago, Iceman said:

That kid Pike is a really good player... 

I think he is adequate cover for Nyambe. Play JRC in a more forward role. 

[dallydally]

47 minutes ago, Tugayisgod said:

Corry Evans having medical at Sunderland 

League One is his level

[chaddyrovers]

Rovers linked with Joe Bennett 

Blackburn Rovers have considered Joe Bennett after Cardiff City exit - The 72

[windymiller7]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Rovers linked with Joe Bennett 

Blackburn Rovers have considered Joe Bennett after Cardiff City exit - The 72

Ex Boro - Check

Injured - Check

Nailed on that one then!!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

did you suffer with back pain in your early 20's

No, I did mine in my early 30’s. Slipped disc again. I was still playing 6 a side in a Wednesday night league. We played for an hour, I felt great at the start but in the last 15 minutes my back was seizing up pretty badly and I usually got subbed off then. When I got home I put myself in a home made traction device for 1/2 hour right way. The next day or two I could just about put my socks on. I wore a weight lifters belt for work. The stiffness in my lower back eased off over the weekend and by the next Wednesday I was ready to go again !
There was no way I could have played professionally though.

Having said that this was 40 years ago and I would hope medical procedures have improved a lot since then. We had a centre forward years ago, Alan Gilliver, who had a similar problem and he ended up having a disc fusion. He played again but he wasn’t at his previous level. I believe Martin Dahlin also had a chronic back condition.

I’d be really gutted if Butterworth has a chronic condition, he looked a real prospect for the future in my opinion.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Tugayisgod said:

Corry Evans having medical at Sunderland 

I’d like to be a fly on the wall there. His medical notes will be in a small suitcase.

[tomphil]

Must be fit and available for International duty will be the first line of any contract he signs.

[chaddyrovers]

38 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

No, I did mine in my early 30’s. Slipped disc again. I was still playing 6 a side in a Wednesday night league. We played for an hour, I felt great at the start but in the last 15 minutes my back was seizing up pretty badly and I usually got subbed off then. When I got home I put myself in a home made traction device for 1/2 hour right way. The next day or two I could just about put my socks on. I wore a weight lifters belt for work. The stiffness in my lower back eased off over the weekend and by the next Wednesday I was ready to go again !
There was no way I could have played professionally though.

Having said that this was 40 years ago and I would hope medical procedures have improved a lot since then. We had a centre forward years ago, Alan Gilliver, who had a similar problem and he ended up having a disc fusion. He played again but he wasn’t at his previous level. I believe Martin Dahlin also had a chronic back condition.

I’d be really gutted if Butterworth has a chronic condition, he looked a real prospect for the future in my opinion.

Thanks for the reply and such a in depth reply. I hope you don't get any pain now from your back. 

I agree with your opinion on Butterworth. 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Pickering has nearly 150 games for Crewe and for me will only improve for us by playing here. Agreed with keeping Wharton, Buckley and Davenport here. Buckley should be key midfield player along with Travis this season. 

Why loan Carter out at the age of 21? Surely if he is going to make here it has to be this season? 

Dolan and JRC should be competing for the right side of the attack with each other so why loan either out? 

Why loan Pike out when he is the back up right back option at the club? 

 

I think that you want to become far too dependant on young players, which is so dangerous. With Mowbray in charge and Armstrong potentially leaving, we are likely to be fighting at the wrong end of the table, we need much more experience to accompany our young players, you don't want 2 youngsters fighting for a place, ideally it would be a senior player and a younger player kicking at his heels. 

For example, you suggest our 2 right attacking players to be Rankin Costello and Dolan. Neither has yet proven themselves to be capable at this level, I would keep both at the club as I said but we need a more senior option above that, Rankin Costello obviously will be needed at right back I presume too, but we need at least 1 if not 2 wide men on top of Brereton who is slightly more proven but still not fully and then Dolan, Chapman and Rankin Costello all of whom are still in the "promising youngster category."

I have no idea why a 21 year old centre back is in the last chance saloon in your head. A centre back is less likely to get opportunities in that unlike attacking players, you don't bring on a young defender for 20 minutes at the end. With Ayala made of glass and Wharton set to start the season on the sidelines, the question is, would if necessary you trust Carter to start on the opening day if necessary, my personal preference would be to sign a more proven centre back, and to loan Carter out for one more season.

Pike as an individual I see less urgency to loan out, he is 2/3 years younger than Butterworth and hasn't seemingly had major injury problems, so another season playing under 23's but training with the first team and third choice at right back behind Nyambe and Rankin Costello may not be unwise.

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

It's not complicated what I'm trying to say. The youth players that are deemed the best at this club very rarely go out on loan. The talents with talent, more or less so, stay at Brockhall to play with the 23's and feature in the 1st team when there's opportunities.

It's individual sure, but statistically, you can see the evidence. The ones who go on loan make it on a less frequent basis. Whether that's correlation or causation is subjective I suppose.

Your evidence is massively flawed though. You dismiss the success of Wharton who went on loan and looked far more competent and ultimately grown up prior to his injury, Lenihan and Raya also benefitted from successful loan spells. Some players will of course just come straight in like Nyambe and Travis but each case is different and there is no pattern to just say anyone worth his salt we should keep around. For me, the key is balance, you don't want too much reliance or too many youngsters around the first team at once otherwise it doesn't tend to end well.

We have the likes of Rankin Costello, Chapman, Dolan, Brereton, Butterworth, Vale and McBride in attacking areas, all seemingly highly rated, and all of whom are 23 and under. It is impossible to keep them all around the first team and give them anything like regular minutes, even off the bench. We need 3 or 4 above the youngsters with more experience, we have the average Gallagher and of course the soon to depart Armstrong, so we need probably 2 or 3 more.

4 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

If Butterworth is good enough and stays injury free it doesn't matter what he missed. Some players play non league for years before getting to the top level. The most important thing is he stays injury free from here on in and gets a run at it. It's his fragility that's the worry, not his ability ,if he has it that is. I have seen bits of him and he looks like an exciting player. Reminds me of Rooney for some reason. Looks fearless. Very small sample size though 

 

A loan spell would also be able to prove that he is physically robust enough to play consecutive games, as well as his ability. But as mentioned above, the key is getting the balance right for me, we have so many young attacking players yet to fully establish themselves to varying degrees. We don't want to keep too many at once without loaning a few, otherwise it will be difficult to give them all the game time needed for their development.

[Exiled_Rover]

14 hours ago, JoeH said:

Sanitised kids football did David Raya okay until he was thrown into the deep end, same with Lewis Travis & Ryan Nyambe. Each of them is different and I get that, but in general, I'd say the one's that we don't let go are usually the ones who break in. John Buckley has started to establish himself also and he didn't go out on loan.
*yes Raya went to Southport for a bit, but not for very long, and well before he broke through

Joe Grayson, Tom White, Brad Lyons, Tyler Magloire, Andy Fisher, Sam Hart, Matty Platt, Lewis Hardcastle, John O'Sullivan... loans did nothing for them, and nothing for us.

How many of those have gone on to have professional careers?

Loans are where you find out what these players are made of, unless they're exceptional and can walk into your First XI at 18.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

How many of those have gone on to have professional careers?

Two are currently without an EFL or Scottish league side. One has sadly had to retire at a young-ish age due to a health condition. The rest have all had, or are having careers. 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Unless they're exceptional and can walk into your First XI at 18.

There's very very few examples of this.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thanks for the reply and such a in depth reply. I hope you don't get any pain now from your back. 

I agree with your opinion on Butterworth. 

It’s at it’s worse in the morning getting out of bed. I can put my socks on though so I can’t complain. As the day goes by it eases quite a lot.  You learn to live with it and not do the things that aggravate it like digging in the garden or lifting heavy things out of the boot of the car. There are plenty of people worse off than me.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[bluebruce]

31 minutes ago, JoeH said:

There's very very few examples of this.

Well, there are a lot overall, but in relative terms very few.

[tomphil]

A hell of a lot of it revolves around managers and agents as well.

Henley walked into Rovers Prem team, struggled at Championship level, even when fit, and is now at Chorley.  Lowe was another whose bread got buttered the right side and has followed a similar path to Henley.

Both should have been out on loan for at least a season or two but the staff then had other ideas. 

Years in the Championship now though and managers wasting money has altered the dynamic. Still a lot of it rests on the manager though and who he fancies and doesn't.

It doesn't always make sense and he isn't always right.

Edited July 14, 2021 by tomphil

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I think that you want to become far too dependant on young players, which is so dangerous. With Mowbray in charge and Armstrong potentially leaving, we are likely to be fighting at the wrong end of the table, we need much more experience to accompany our young players, you don't want 2 youngsters fighting for a place, ideally it would be a senior player and a younger player kicking at his heels. 

I want to develop our talent young players and keep using our great academy when we can. 

I'm not going to keep talking about Mowbray still being here as manager every day with you. 

Thats what you want. I want to 2 players fighting for the position in the team regards of age. 

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

you suggest our 2 right attacking players to be Rankin Costello and Dolan. Neither has yet proven themselves to be capable at this level, I would keep both at the club as I said but we need a more senior option above that, Rankin Costello obviously will be needed at right back I presume too, but we need at least 1 if not 2 wide men on top of Brereton who is slightly more proven but still not fully and then Dolan, Chapman and Rankin Costello all of whom are still in the "promising youngster category."

Neither will prove themselves unless you start them and play them and allow them to develop. Also JRC doesn't want to play right back and that was one of key problems why he didn't sign a new contract unless June cos he wants to be played further forward. 

Brereton from the left or up front this coming season

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I have no idea why a 21 year old centre back is in the last chance saloon in your head.

Cos he is 22 years old in December and if he isn't going to be part of the first team squad this season will he ever be. 

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Pike as an individual I see less urgency to loan out,

I see Pike as the second right back after Nyambe 

[roversfan99]

15 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I want to develop our talent young players and keep using our great academy when we can. 

I'm not going to keep talking about Mowbray still being here as manager every day with you. 

Thats what you want. I want to 2 players fighting for the position in the team regards of age. 

Neither will prove themselves unless you start them and play them and allow them to develop. Also JRC doesn't want to play right back and that was one of key problems why he didn't sign a new contract unless June cos he wants to be played further forward. 

Brereton from the left or up front this coming season

Cos he is 22 years old in December and if he isn't going to be part of the first team squad this season will he ever be. 

I see Pike as the second right back after Nyambe 

Is there absolutely any evidence of what I have put in bold? We have absolutely no idea what it was, there was a rumour of that on here and also a rumour that he was offered a pitiful wage.

Is 22 close to retirement age? Carter has plenty of time, he is very, very young for a centre back. 

I suspect that you will be right and we will become overly reliant on kids, mainly because I don't think we will sign many players. But it is a risky strategy. By all means give the young players a chance, which with a squad of Nyambe, Pickering, Brereton, Armstrong (if he stays which he wont sadly), Wharton, Rankin Costello, Buckley, Davenport, Chapman and Dolan all in it, we will have plenty of youth either way. But we need more experience and more proven quality on top of that, which is sorely lacking.

Rankin Costello is seen as a left winger anyway, not a right winger, according to Mowbray.

If we do become too reliant on kids, it doesn't bode well for as and when we get embroiled in a dog fight at the bottom, we don't have the characters and the experience to cope.

[chaddyrovers]

19 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Is there absolutely any evidence of what I have put in bold? We have absolutely no idea what it was, there was a rumour of that on here and also a rumour that he was offered a pitiful wage.

what evidence do you want? but I trusted the person who told me. 

 

19 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I suspect that you will be right and we will become overly reliant on kids, mainly because I don't think we will sign many players. But it is a risky strategy. By all means give the young players a chance, which with a squad of Nyambe, Pickering, Brereton, Armstrong (if he stays which he wont sadly), Wharton, Rankin Costello, Buckley, Davenport, Chapman and Dolan all in it, we will have plenty of youth either way. But we need more experience and more proven quality on top of that, which is sorely lacking.

We will sign around 5 players this summer. 

Nyambe has 172 first team games, Pickering has 167 first team games, Brereton has 145 first team games, Wharton has 110 games under his belt. These aren't kids but players will over 100 games to their name. 

19 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Rankin Costello is seen as a left winger anyway, not a right winger, according to Mowbray.

shame he hasn't played there much 

[TugaysMarlboro]

25 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

what evidence do you want? but I trusted the person who told me. 

 

We will sign around 5 players this summer. 

Nyambe has 172 first team games, Pickering has 167 first team games, Brereton has 145 first team games, Wharton has 110 games under his belt. These aren't kids but players will over 100 games to their name. 

shame he hasn't played there much 

Do you think that is 5 permanents + loans?

Or 5 in total (permanents and loans combined)?

[roversfan99]

And why 5? 5 is not enough.

[chaddyrovers]

13 minutes ago, Traviscon said:

Do you think that is 5 permanents + loans?

Or 5 in total (permanents and loans combined)?

I imagine it will 5 or 6 in total cos our current squad has 19 players thats meet the 25 man squad rules that we must submit in after the window. So we will be able to sign 6 players unless we sell anyone to allow us sign another player. 

For me, We need centre back, back up left back, defensive midfielder, wide left player and the main one is how do we replace Armstrong as our main striker

@roversfan99 this answers your previous question

Edited July 15, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[bluebruce]

Not sure why nobody is talking about it (in here anyway) but we are meant to be close to appointing John Park as head of recruitment. Actually sounds like a good appointment for a change. Discovered Virgil Van Dijk.

[islander200]

46 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Not sure why nobody is talking about it (in here anyway) but we are meant to be close to appointing John Park as head of recruitment. Actually sounds like a good appointment for a change. Discovered Virgil Van Dijk.

He has his own thread