Summer transfer window 2021.

[tomphil]

It might unavoidably need to be done but it should be being done with a new regime in place.  It would make it so much easier to stomach than having those who've contributed to it just carry on.

Especially when their arse covering answer to it was to try and start selling fixed assets.

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, phili said:

you can spend for 2 years and pull back spend in the third year to still be within FFP guidelines.

The guidelines state you can lose £30m in total over those 3 years excluding, spend on stadium maintenance, youth academies, new pitches, new stadium etc.

on average at the moment we are losing £12-14m a season on items covered by FFP.  So for 2 seasons we we lose £24m - £28m and in season 3 we can only lose £2-6m meaning we have to cut costs and sell a couple of players to the tune of £10m.

Now everything that is happening this summer should have happened last summer but Covid pushed it from a 3 year phase to a 4 year phase allowing £40m spend over the 4 seasons. I think it is something like £12m of sales and savings we need to make this summer to comply. We have not renewed contracts to the tune of £5m and then we need player sales to the tune of £7m anything over that we can invest in the squad.

Next year we can start the rebuild again for the next 2 year cycle unless we change and operate to a Brentford/Barnsley approach which is more self sustaining.

I understand the financial side but I don't see how the next 18 months becomes an irrelevance as to whether Mowbray is here or not, it is as crucial as ever to replace him ASAP either way.

[phili]

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I understand the financial side but I don't see how the next 18 months becomes an irrelevance as to whether Mowbray is here or not, it is as crucial as ever to replace him ASAP either way.

it doesn't, he should have been gone last season.

he has 10 months left on his contract so sacking him wouldn't cost that much now and needs to be done urgently so we can rebuild

[roversfan99]

As expected, Johansen is going to QPR. 

[davulsukur]

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

As expected, Johansen is going to QPR. 

He was probably the only rumour still kicking about for us.

[SuperBrfc]

I'm left wondering who exactly are we looking at in terms of potential signings? We used to hear how Mowbray has an A list and B list of targets, but there is nothing this time round. Barely any names or rumours doing the rounds and the new season is 2 weeks away.

Yates and Johansen are no goers now, so what's the plan? It surely can't be to wait for Armstrong to be sold and see which youngsters the Premier League clubs will loan out.

[RoverKyle]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

As expected, Johansen is going to QPR. 

Apparently for £600k as well. Bargain.

[JHRover]

I don't think we are seriously looking at anyone. I don't think Mowbray or Waggott have authority to bring in any signings, certainly not spending cash or issuing contracts.

That might change when Venkys realise there is a new season starting and that we are looking at relegation again or if we sell Armstrong and they can persuade them to allow some of those funds to come back to the Club, but until that happens I think the best we can hope for are 2-3 cheap loans, which will inevitably be last minute and a case of taking whoever we can get.

We all know, deep down even if the eternal optimists won't admit it, that this is a ticket to relegation next season, especially with this management team, bereft of ideas and tactical nous and exhausted of patience among the fanbase and probably the squad of players too.

I can only imagine how fed up some of our remaining decent players must be that after the weariness of last season to be turning up listening to the same monotonous drivel from the manager whilst looking around and seeing an exodus of personnel and no reinforcements.

The only chance we had of keeping Armstrong here, i think, was to show some ambition this summer, ditch the manager, bring in a winner and recruit well. None of those things have happened so why would he stay?

I think the people reacting with horror and ridicule to reports of bids of £8 million from Southampton may have to revise their expectations when it becomes clear that this might be the only or best offer we are going to get any time soon.

In terms of FFP I don't agree that we have to chose between copying Brentford/Barnsley or gambling by spending like Leeds/Derby

There is a middle ground. Preston. Luton. Millwall. QPR. Bristol City. I implore anyone to explain to me how those clubs, with less well off owners, similar or smaller fanbases, can outperform us or at least match us, whilst expertly avoiding issues with FFP, yet there seems an acceptance here or feeling of inevitability that we just have to accept FFP as something we cannot avoid.

Yes we can avoid it. We need better management though.

The inevitable Armstrong sale should be the golden goose that pays off FFP issues for the next 3 years in one swoop. Yet more hard luck stories coming about that one and why we stand to make very little on a 25 goal a season young English striker. We should be laughing to the bank on that one (or building a formidable side around him to go for promotion)

[davulsukur]

52 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

I'm left wondering who exactly are we looking at in terms of potential signings? We used to hear how Mowbray has an A list and B list of targets, but there is nothing this time round. Barely any names or rumours doing the rounds and the new season is 2 weeks away.

Yates and Johansen are no goers now, so what's the plan? It surely can't be to wait for Armstrong to be sold and see which youngsters the Premier League clubs will loan out.

Only other rumours kicking about before was Reach on a free. Ex Boro so fit the bill nicely.

That's gone totally dead as well. 

[roversfan99]

Many transfers at this level are frees and loans so it doesn't have to become a critical blow to rely on those markets, but we dont have the proactivity from the owners down to be efficient and get the best. The season is 2 weeks away, beyond pathetic.

[speeeeeeedie]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not entirely accurate. He did play him. On the wing. 

I stand corrected. 28 league appearances plus 5 as sub per Wikipedia.

I thought he didn't start as many games as he did.

[LDRover]

4 hours ago, neophox said:

So much talk about Paul Mullin. He's joined fifth tier side Wrexham. 👌 

Whoever suggested him for us needs sectioning.

Honestly....

[booth]

Two weeks to go, substantial outgoings yet no signings.

Venky’s are letting him see his contract out. And honourable Tony knows it.

[SuperBrfc]

40 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Only other rumours kicking about before was Reach on a free. Ex Boro so fit the bill nicely.

That's gone totally dead as well. 

It's a big concern. I would have expected a couple of incomings by now given how many we have let go. There isn't the usual talk from Mowbray either, which is telling.

In the past he tried to suggest that we were on the lookout for, or were waiting for a 'better' calibre of player. To be fair, Elliott and THB were good additions, but I worry that isn't the case this time round.

[rigger]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

I don't think we are seriously looking at anyone. I don't think Mowbray or Waggott have authority to bring in any signings, certainly not spending cash or issuing contracts.

That might change when Venkys realise there is a new season starting and that we are looking at relegation again or if we sell Armstrong and they can persuade them to allow some of those funds to come back to the Club, but until that happens I think the best we can hope for are 2-3 cheap loans, which will inevitably be last minute and a case of taking whoever we can get.

We all know, deep down even if the eternal optimists won't admit it, that this is a ticket to relegation next season, especially with this management team, bereft of ideas and tactical nous and exhausted of patience among the fanbase and probably the squad of players too.

I can only imagine how fed up some of our remaining decent players must be that after the weariness of last season to be turning up listening to the same monotonous drivel from the manager whilst looking around and seeing an exodus of personnel and no reinforcements.

The only chance we had of keeping Armstrong here, i think, was to show some ambition this summer, ditch the manager, bring in a winner and recruit well. None of those things have happened so why would he stay?

I think the people reacting with horror and ridicule to reports of bids of £8 million from Southampton may have to revise their expectations when it becomes clear that this might be the only or best offer we are going to get any time soon.

In terms of FFP I don't agree that we have to chose between copying Brentford/Barnsley or gambling by spending like Leeds/Derby

There is a middle ground. Preston. Luton. Millwall. QPR. Bristol City. I implore anyone to explain to me how those clubs, with less well off owners, similar or smaller fanbases, can outperform us or at least match us, whilst expertly avoiding issues with FFP, yet there seems an acceptance here or feeling of inevitability that we just have to accept FFP as something we cannot avoid.

Yes we can avoid it. We need better management though.

The inevitable Armstrong sale should be the golden goose that pays off FFP issues for the next 3 years in one swoop. Yet more hard luck stories coming about that one and why we stand to make very little on a 25 goal a season young English striker. We should be laughing to the bank on that one (or building a formidable side around him to go for promotion)

If you are so certain of us being relegated. What odds will you give me, on the Rovers staying up next season ?  

[phili]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

I don't think we are seriously looking at anyone. I don't think Mowbray or Waggott have authority to bring in any signings, certainly not spending cash or issuing contracts.

That might change when Venkys realise there is a new season starting and that we are looking at relegation again or if we sell Armstrong and they can persuade them to allow some of those funds to come back to the Club, but until that happens I think the best we can hope for are 2-3 cheap loans, which will inevitably be last minute and a case of taking whoever we can get.

We all know, deep down even if the eternal optimists won't admit it, that this is a ticket to relegation next season, especially with this management team, bereft of ideas and tactical nous and exhausted of patience among the fanbase and probably the squad of players too.

I can only imagine how fed up some of our remaining decent players must be that after the weariness of last season to be turning up listening to the same monotonous drivel from the manager whilst looking around and seeing an exodus of personnel and no reinforcements.

The only chance we had of keeping Armstrong here, i think, was to show some ambition this summer, ditch the manager, bring in a winner and recruit well. None of those things have happened so why would he stay?

I think the people reacting with horror and ridicule to reports of bids of £8 million from Southampton may have to revise their expectations when it becomes clear that this might be the only or best offer we are going to get any time soon.

In terms of FFP I don't agree that we have to chose between copying Brentford/Barnsley or gambling by spending like Leeds/Derby

There is a middle ground. Preston. Luton. Millwall. QPR. Bristol City. I implore anyone to explain to me how those clubs, with less well off owners, similar or smaller fanbases, can outperform us or at least match us, whilst expertly avoiding issues with FFP, yet there seems an acceptance here or feeling of inevitability that we just have to accept FFP as something we cannot avoid.

Yes we can avoid it. We need better management though.

The inevitable Armstrong sale should be the golden goose that pays off FFP issues for the next 3 years in one swoop. Yet more hard luck stories coming about that one and why we stand to make very little on a 25 goal a season young English striker. We should be laughing to the bank on that one (or building a formidable side around him to go for promotion)

People aren't going to like this but, you just have to look at the operating costs of ourselves and them.

We are geared up for premier league football, to operate us it costs £6m a season before player costs, coaches and director costs. To operate Preston £2m, Luton £1.5m. This is on maintenance, training ground, stadium etc.

They have more commercial revenues coming in. Don't waste cash on player investment projects such as Brereton, don't waste cash on player contracts when not playing players, have smaller squads, less coaches, smaller analytics teams, medical facilities etc.

If you want to operate like them, you do what Waggott was trying to do last season, reduce training ground, get rid of cat A academy etc and no £1m+ transfer spend on players just free transfer and small £500k transfer fees as well as reducing the weekly wage budget for a player to £10k at most. Also as fans we must accept if an offer comes in for a player he goes as happens with the clubs you suggest us following. No offering new contracts to keep the player, they are gone.

Hemmings injects £5-7m a season into Preston, with FFP a owner can do £10m a season. We have to remove around £8m of costs a year from the club, not to go through the cycle. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

On 21/07/2021 at 23:29, phili said:

I think we will be lucky to get 2-3 players in by the end of the transfer window.

After the FFP delay to 4 years, this is always the year where to have to balance the books ready for another push and squad rebuild next year. We just have to look at what would have been in our profit and sustainability submission to the EFL. it would have budgeted for 8,000 season ticket holders, we are looking at getting 5,000 so that's £1.2m down straightaway at a £400 average price. We will be saving £5m in player wages of released players and that is already in the figures submitted to the league, it will probably have stated we'll make a £8m player trading surplus this year after the probable sale of Lenihan, Armstrong and Rothwell. Looking at the financial figures we can only lose this year around £7m compared to our normal £20m.

If we think about it all of ours signings and contracts adhere to the 3 year FFP cycle, the issue is Covid popped it to 4 years, so instead of selling players such as Dack, Armstrong, Rothwell, Travis etc with either 2 years or 1 year plus a 1 year option. We are now trying to get high transfer prices to cover FFP at a time when our players have a year on their contract. So it will be very tough to cover everything.

I can say thanks for the reply. So if we sell Armstrong for 15 million pounds and with the saving of 5 million pounds in the wage bill that would allow Rovers to spend 7 million pounds overall including wages? Is this correct?

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Even if we assume that there is truth in the theories that the plan was to sell Dack and reinvest, and also that the strategy is for 2 years of spending low and one of spending more, which I am unsure of as our net spend last summer was the lowest of all 3 years wasnt it? 

didn't we have a huge wage bill compare to the season before? and didn't the wage bill increase by 3 million pounds per year and didn't we have over 30 players squad?

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

I don't think we are seriously looking at anyone. I don't think Mowbray or Waggott have authority to bring in any signings, certainly not spending cash or issuing contracts.

So you keep saying despite us offering new contracts to Nyambe, Armstrong, Rothwell?

Also why have Buckley, Dolan and JRC all signed new contract over the last few months then if they can't issue new contracts?

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I can say thanks for the reply. So if we sell Armstrong for 15 million pounds and with the saving of 5 million pounds in the wage bill that would allow Rovers to spend 7 million pounds overall including wages? Is this correct?

didn't we have a huge wage bill compare to the season before? and didn't the wage bill increase by 3 million pounds per year and didn't we have over 30 players squad?

So you keep saying despite us offering new contracts to Nyambe, Armstrong, Rothwell?

Also why have Buckley, Dolan and JRC all signed new contract over the last few months then if they can't issue new contracts?

The wage bill for the 20/21 season wont be out until the 2021 accounts are published. I suspect that the wage bill will have slightly increased when we brought in Ayala, Kaminski and Douglas in particular (Trybull was a heavily sponsored loan according to the LT, the other loanees are kids but unsure on finances and I doubt that Pears, Dolan and Stergiakis will be on much) but looking at wages to revenue in 2021, it will be the revenue massively decreasing due to Covid that causes a huge increase in that particular ratio.

[JohnGo]

6 minutes ago, phili said:

People aren't going to like this but, you just have to look at the operating costs of ourselves and them.

We are geared up for premier league football, to operate us it costs £6m a season before player costs, coaches and director costs. To operate Preston £2m, Luton £1.5m. This is on maintenance, training ground, stadium etc.

They have more commercial revenues coming in. Don't waste cash on player investment projects such as Brereton, don't waste cash on player contracts when not playing players, have smaller squads, less coaches, smaller analytics teams, medical facilities etc.

If you want to operate like them, you do what Waggott was trying to do last season, reduce training ground, get rid of cat A academy etc and no £1m+ transfer spend on players just free transfer and small £500k transfer fees as well as reducing the weekly wage budget for a player to £10k at most. Also as fans we must accept if an offer comes in for a player he goes as happens with the clubs you suggest us following. No offering new contracts to keep the player, they are gone.

Hemmings injects £5-7m a season into Preston, with FFP a owner can do £10m a season. We have to remove around £8m of costs a year from the club, not to go through the cycle. 

 

Phil, The Venkeys converted £20m+ In the latest accounts to capital. Is Hemmings only loaning the nobenders? If this is the case they can continue financing at this same level.

[JHRover]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

So you keep saying despite us offering new contracts to Nyambe, Armstrong, Rothwell?

Also why have Buckley, Dolan and JRC all signed new contract over the last few months then if they can't issue new contracts?

I've just been online and offered £1000 for a brand new Mercedes. It won't be accepted so is a waste of everyone's time. Apply the same principle to our 'offers' to senior players all of which remain unsigned.

JRC, Dolan and Buckley do not count as senior players for those purposes. They will have been on effectively youth or u23 level contracts.

[JHRover]

12 minutes ago, phili said:

People aren't going to like this but, you just have to look at the operating costs of ourselves and them.

We are geared up for premier league football, to operate us it costs £6m a season before player costs, coaches and director costs. To operate Preston £2m, Luton £1.5m. This is on maintenance, training ground, stadium etc.

They have more commercial revenues coming in. Don't waste cash on player investment projects such as Brereton, don't waste cash on player contracts when not playing players, have smaller squads, less coaches, smaller analytics teams, medical facilities etc.

If you want to operate like them, you do what Waggott was trying to do last season, reduce training ground, get rid of cat A academy etc and no £1m+ transfer spend on players just free transfer and small £500k transfer fees as well as reducing the weekly wage budget for a player to £10k at most. Also as fans we must accept if an offer comes in for a player he goes as happens with the clubs you suggest us following. No offering new contracts to keep the player, they are gone.

Hemmings injects £5-7m a season into Preston, with FFP a owner can do £10m a season. We have to remove around £8m of costs a year from the club, not to go through the cycle. 

 

Hold on, so Luton and Preston have bigger commercial incomes than Blackburn Rovers? And that's acceptable? The same Luton that have no corporate facilities and were non league recently? 

You do realise that expenditure on facilities and academies are exempt from FFP? 

Even if they weren't why does it cost so much more here?

Deepdale is better maintained than Ewood. They have two training facilities to operate.

Simply doesn't add up which ever way you put it.

[chaddyrovers]

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The wage bill for the 20/21 season wont be out until the 2021 accounts are published. I suspect that the wage bill will have slightly increased when we brought in Ayala, Kaminski and Douglas in particular (Trybull was a heavily sponsored loan according to the LT, the other loanees are kids but unsure on finances and I doubt that Pears, Dolan and Stergiakis will be on much) but looking at wages to revenue in 2021, it will be the revenue massively decreasing due to Covid that causes a huge increase in that particular ratio.

But the wage bill went up for that season and would have done this past season which is my point roversfan99. The wage bill keep increasing

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I've just been online and offered £1000 for a brand new Mercedes. It won't be accepted so is a waste of everyone's time. Apply the same principle to our 'offers' to senior players all of which remain unsigned.

JRC, Dolan and Buckley do not count as senior players for those purposes. They will have been on effectively youth or u23 level contracts.

You don't know what contracts offers were made to any players like Armstrong, Rothwell or Nyambe. 

Do you know what any of these players are on now after signing their new contracts like Buckley, JRC, Dolan or even Dack?

[tomphil]

It only adds up if Venkys are happy or need to flush 15 million plus through the pipes every year. And whatever purpose this serves they are happy to just play with the club and pay yes men to experiment over here.

The club remains in limbo and just at the whim of someone getting it right once in a blue moon due to law of averages.

As it shows at Preston, Barnsley, Brentford, Millwall etc, if there's a plan and everyone pulls in the right direction it doesn't need to keep creating monumental losses.

Here it's like we have a need to keep creating them so the ownership can get rid of it's spare cash. Yet it doesn't really matter what happens in the middle and the FFP just gets in the way.

[JHRover]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You don't know what contracts offers were made to any players like Armstrong, Rothwell or Nyambe. 

Do you know what any of these players are on now after signing their new contracts like Buckley, JRC, Dolan or even Dack?

I know they haven't signed new deals. Which is all that really matters. Trying and failing is still failing. Question is have they even tried?