Summer transfer window 2021.

[roversfan99]

I am not convinced about Reach to be honest, there are pros and cons, he does have ability, he can chip in with goals, and he is of a good age to bring some experience, although he is very inconsistent and his attitude especially in a relegation season (ducking out of challenges) really irked Wednesday fans from what I have seen, so perhaps not necessarily what we need ahead of our own battle. Seems like typical dallying will see him go elsewhere though.

This is far from the first time that everything from the owners seems to have totally ground to a halt. I can understand working on a small budget or even selling key players, reinvesting some of the proceeds and even keeping some of that amount to offset losses, working to a strategy and proactively. This current shambles, its unforgivable.

The result yesterday like al friendlies is fairly immaterial. The team that we put out very much wasn't, it was our strongest possible team with zero senior alternatives. The defence is continuously creaky with Ayala very much the elephant in the room, the midfield 3 would have had any of the 23 other Championship managers licking its lips at how soft and ineffective it is, and our goal threat was totally focused on one (almost certainly soon to depart) player. All the subs are kids. And then you look at the players that we are without, would they make a difference? Rankin Costello and Dolan themselves are kids yet to fully establish themselves. Wharton had a few good games, wont be fit any time soon and himself is not fully established. Neither Brereton or Gallagher have themselves fully convinced, plus the former in particular is very much in the earlier stages of his career. Dack is obviously a write off sadly for the foreseeable, so it just leaves Johnson who would provide experience and character but isn't up to it from a footballing perspective anymore, and Travis, I hope his injury isnt serious, radio silence on that, but again you are looking at a 23 year old to lead.

Presumably the most likely type of signing will be young kids, even if they are improvements on what we have like Elliott and Harwood Bellis were, its not only risky but the landscape of our squad has changed, we are dying for know how and experience. Plus any quality frees have surely been snapped up, players like Mowatt and Marcondes were unrealistic, but others such as Vrancic, Woods, Matty James, they have been snapped up now.

[roversfan99]

On 25/07/2021 at 13:57, TruRover said:

Right decisions tho. If he was tied to a long contract then he’s at least worth 25-30m when u compare him to players like Watkins. I’m really suprised a prem team hasn’t taken control of the situation and offered 20m. He’s easily worth that in the current market. Personally, I’d rather we keep him for another season, hope that his goals can keep us up, and that TM leaves when his contract is up. 

The point about him keeping us up is a valid one, I can't see us surviving really without him, or it will at least be a huge struggle and a dog fight with a team full of kids.

But would you loan a player of Armstrongs ability for 15m? As good as he is, surely that isnt economically viable.

[JHRover]

I forgot what day it was. Good news there was an Adam Armstrong 'story' in The Sun written by Alan Nixon so quickly knew it must be a Sunday. 

You can almost set your watch on him.

Edited July 25, 2021 by JHRover

[islander200]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:10, roversfan99 said:

The point about him keeping us up is a valid one, I can't see us surviving really without him, or it will at least be a huge struggle and a dog fight with a team full of kids.

But would you loan a player of Armstrongs ability for 15m? As good as he is, surely that isnt economically viable.

I rate Armstrong so not having a go at him.

But if we kept him on for the season can you really see him getting similar numbers as he did last season.No Elliot for a start and earlier in season when Holtby was playing well.

Most of Armstrong's goals came when the team was creating chances,a lot of those 28 goals came when we were the dominant side,how many goals did he get when we won twice in 17?

Of course we ain't gonna be able to loan in a player as good or worth as much as Armstrong,but the whole squad could be improved even if only a fraction of Armstrong's fee is reinvested.

In my opinion it is beyond stupid not to sell him for a fee of 15 million.Under no circumstances should we be letting him leave on a free

[gumboots]

Do you really think even a fraction of his fee would be reinvested?  And even if it was, do you think Mowbray would invest it well?

[Bigdoggsteel]

Im actually of the belief that our current plight is purely down to the manager. The owners backed him and gave him time, he spoke of "journeys", yet here we are with 11 players gone, no clear direction on our style of play and no signings in 

They backed another clown, unfortunately

 

[simongarnerisgod]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:28, Bigdoggsteel said:

Im actually of the belief that our current plight is purely down to the manager. The owners backed him and gave him time, he spoke of "journeys", yet here we are with 11 players gone, no clear direction on our style of play and no signings in 

They backed another clown, unfortunately

 

and in the same position we were 5 years ago,if a manager can`t move the club forward in 5 seasons,then it`s not going to ever happen for him

[islander200]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:25, gumboots said:

Do you really think even a fraction of his fee would be reinvested?  And even if it was, do you think Mowbray would invest it well?

Well we have spent decent money whilst Mowbray Has been here and only sold one first team player in that time, a player the manager didn't rate.The owners will spend money in the transfer market if ffp allows

The club needs Money brought in.Be beyond stupid to just let our most valuable asset to run his contract down.Armstrong is the only player we currently have that would get a fee of 10 million +.

 

 

 

[islander200]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:28, Bigdoggsteel said:

Im actually of the belief that our current plight is purely down to the manager. The owners backed him and gave him time, he spoke of "journeys", yet here we are with 11 players gone, no clear direction on our style of play and no signings in 

They backed another clown, unfortunately

 

Yeah nobody can say they haven't backed Mowbray,they have given him more than enough money,we should not be in the mess we are now.

But once again instead of just removing the manager and the rest they go silent and will let us fester till he is out of contract

[RevidgeBlue]

On 25/07/2021 at 12:34, tomphil said:

And if they don't do the decent thing there we'll never get that kind of deal or player off a Prem club again.

I think that's being a bit melodramatic.

Also if we never get "that kind of deal" of a Prem Club again then my reaction would be "Thank god for that".

We've been absolutely shafted by Newcastle on this deal. At the time we signed Armstrong I think  £3m was a perfectly fair price for him and their end should have been accounted for by the add ons.

To then get 40% of any future profit on him as well is absolutely ludicrous. We take all the risk on him and do all the work developing him and they get almost as much profit on him as we do!

Not really a surprise with the Coventrio in office but Newcastle certainly saw us coming on that one.

 

[roversinmyblood]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:28, Bigdoggsteel said:

Im actually of the belief that our current plight is purely down to the manager. The owners backed him and gave him time, he spoke of "journeys", yet here we are with 11 players gone, no clear direction on our style of play and no signings in 

They backed another clown, unfortunately

 

Last year was “the year” to get in the top six. Unfortunately the manager’s tactics of possession play was nullified by some canny managers and other managers followed suit. TM had no answer to these counter tactics and was found clueless as to how to turn it around. 
In fairness though, the pitch at Ewood post Christmas was appalling and did not suit his possession based tactics especially against a high press. Unfortunately we didn’t have a Danny Graham type player to go direct. 

This year is going to one of survival and rebuild as we live with the consequences of FFP. If we sell AA it may allow a little money to spend, but I don’t have the confidence that it would be spent well. AA would at least allow us to survive and maybe prosper if we kept him, but it’s a big ask to expect him to do as well as last season. 
The possibility of relegation this year would probably be the death knell of the club. 

[tomphil]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:28, Bigdoggsteel said:

Im actually of the belief that our current plight is purely down to the manager. The owners backed him and gave him time, he spoke of "journeys", yet here we are with 11 players gone, no clear direction on our style of play and no signings in 

They backed another clown, unfortunately

 

Well within reason he's had all the backing hes asked for the many things have been highlighted on here time and again.

Yet we are still going nowhere and non of it has worked. I think he was banking on selling a player or two he'd helped develop by now. That would've considerably backed his methods. 

It would've helped the balance sheet also but the team and club wouldn't be in any much higher place.  Too many flaws to what he does at first team level and too much desire to chuck cash in the wrong directions, on and off the pitch.

[roversinmyblood]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:55, RevidgeBlue said:

I think that's being a bit melodramatic.

Also if we never get "that kind of deal" of a Prem Club again then my reaction would be "Thank god for that".

We've been absolutely shafted by Newcastle on this deal. At the time we signed Armstrong I think  £3m was a perfectly fair price for him and their end should have been accounted for by the add ons.

To then get 40% of any future profit on him as well is absolutely ludicrous. We take all the risk on him and do all the work developing him and they get almost as much profit on him as we do!

Not really a surprise with the Coventrio in office but Newcastle certainly saw us coming on that one.

 

Because of our lack of cash at the time, it would have been all they could pay so not agreeing to the ridiculous sell on fee would not have allowed the deal to be completed. They had us over a barrel. 

[islander200]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:55, RevidgeBlue said:

I think that's being a bit melodramatic.

Also if we never get "that kind of deal" of a Prem Club again then my reaction would be "Thank god for that".

We've been absolutely shafted by Newcastle on this deal. At the time we signed Armstrong I think  £3m was a perfectly fair price for him and their end should have been accounted for by the add ons.

To then get 40% of any future profit on him as well is absolutely ludicrous. We take all the risk on him and do all the work developing him and they get almost as much profit on him as we do!

Not really a surprise with the Coventrio in office but Newcastle certainly saw us coming on that one.

 

Agreed, very rarely in England anyway do you see a player with a 40% sell on ,it's usually 20 max.

Was stupid to agree such a clause, it wasnt like Newcastle were over run with bids for him at the time.

He had had a poor 6 month spell in the championship with Bolton,and a decent (not brilliant) spell in league one for us

[RevidgeBlue]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:02, J*B said:

You’d rather he left for nothing in 12 months than for 15m now? Teams know that we need to sell him, you don’t get top whack when everyone knows you’re in financial difficulty and your player has 12 months left on his deal. 

Would you rather we went down and banked (at the very best) a net £10m?

Or would you rather keep hold of Armstrong and scrape up on the strength of it?

I'd take the latter all day long. I'm a fan and it's not my money admittedly.

The only way I'd take the money would be if it was utilised to pot the Coventrio and bring in a top manager. But I think we know that wouldn't happen.

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:56, roversinmyblood said:

Last year was “the year” to get in the top six. Unfortunately the manager’s tactics of possession play was nullified by some canny managers and other managers followed suit. TM had no answer to these counter tactics and was found clueless as to how to turn it around. 
In fairness though, the pitch at Ewood post Christmas was appalling and did not suit his possession based tactics especially against a high press. Unfortunately we didn’t have a Danny Graham type player to go direct. 

This year is going to one of survival and rebuild as we live with the consequences of FFP. If we sell AA it may allow a little money to spend, but I don’t have the confidence that it would be spent well. AA would at least allow us to survive and maybe prosper if we kept him, but it’s a big ask to expect him to do as well as last season. 
The possibility of relegation this year would probably be the death knell of the club. 

We didnt have a Danny Graham because of Mowbray and he wouldn't have changed anyway, I mean he didn't! Like banging our heads off a wall with him as manager. 

He can't use the pitch and an excuse imo 

I agree relegation this season would be the end of the club as we know it 

 

 

[booth]

Not sure why people want Obafemi, it’d be another unproven forward taking up a place. Mowbray would never play him and he’d keep McBride away from getting an opportunity.

[roversfan99]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:18, islander200 said:

I rate Armstrong so not having a go at him.

But if we kept him on for the season can you really see him getting similar numbers as he did last season.No Elliot for a start and earlier in season when Holtby was playing well.

Most of Armstrong's goals came when the team was creating chances,a lot of those 28 goals came when we were the dominant side,how many goals did he get when we won twice in 17?

Of course we ain't gonna be able to loan in a player as good or worth as much as Armstrong,but the whole squad could be improved even if only a fraction of Armstrong's fee is reinvested.

In my opinion it is beyond stupid not to sell him for a fee of 15 million.Under no circumstances should we be letting him leave on a free

28 goals is right up with the very best tallies at this level to be fair but I don't see even without Elliott why he wouldn't score plenty of goals still, he scored plenty in the second half of the season before without Elliott once he was moved central and I don't foresee the goals drying up, I think he is a goalscorer who will score at this level regardless.

That being said, letting him go on a free would be crazy, unfortunately he would be stupid to sign a new deal so we need to sell him as soon as possible. 

On 25/07/2021 at 09:20, neophox said:

Available freebies.. Realistic targets. 

Jack Wilshere, Adam Reach, Andy Carroll, Conor Wickham, Marco Stiepermann, Jeffrey Bruma, Yuri Ribeiro, Egzan Alioski, Tom Lees, 

Some absolutely crazy shouts there, Alioski and Bruma are crazily unrealistic, as are Wilshire and Carroll who like Wickham spend 90% of their time on the injury table.

From the rest, Stiepermann I suspect may well have better offers so may himself be unrealistic but he played an important role in the first promotion that Norwich achieved in his time there, a really tall and unorthodox attacking midfielder but one who proved very effective in behind Pukki. Moritz Leitner is a deeper lying central midfielder who has also been released by Norwich and I would probably take both if they were realistic. Ribeiro I think is going back to play in Portugal and Reach has been covered but seems to be a target that we have allowed to slip away.

[bluebruce]

On 25/07/2021 at 13:57, TruRover said:

Right decisions tho. If he was tied to a long contract then he’s at least worth 25-30m when u compare him to players like Watkins. I’m really suprised a prem team hasn’t taken control of the situation and offered 20m. He’s easily worth that in the current market. Personally, I’d rather we keep him for another season, hope that his goals can keep us up, and that TM leaves when his contract is up. 

It's only the right decision if Arma renews his deal, or if we get a larger bid later that we accept. It's a gamble with very uncertain odds, so we can't call it the right decision yet.

[islander200]

On 25/07/2021 at 15:00, roversinmyblood said:

Because of our lack of cash at the time, it would have been all they could pay so not agreeing to the ridiculous sell on fee would not have allowed the deal to be completed. They had us over a barrel. 

Did we not sign Brereton not long after that ?And were bidding for Freeman and the lad at city?

People weren't banging down the door for Armstrong at that time,the interest would have been minimal and from mid table /lower placed championship clubs 

[RevidgeBlue]

On 25/07/2021 at 15:00, roversinmyblood said:

Because of our lack of cash at the time, it would have been all they could pay so not agreeing to the ridiculous sell on fee would not have allowed the deal to be completed. They had us over a barrel. 

Doubt anyone else was queueing up to sign him at the time. If Newcastle wouldn't budge then we should have looked elsewhere notwithstanding he's done well with the benefit of hindsight.

[roversfan99]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:28, Bigdoggsteel said:

Im actually of the belief that our current plight is purely down to the manager. The owners backed him and gave him time, he spoke of "journeys", yet here we are with 11 players gone, no clear direction on our style of play and no signings in 

They backed another clown, unfortunately

 

No way is it purely down to the manager. The embargo for example was unavoidable incompetence above his head. We have also seen this time and time again in summers, everything is so slow because of them, our transfer business is always slow, they usually insist on the manager coming over to beg pre-covid, the embargo is a second one within their ownership, they dont work in a logical way.

Mowbray needs sacking but Venkys are the ones to blame, that should never be forgotten and how anyone defends them, I have no idea.

[tomphil]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:55, RevidgeBlue said:

I think that's being a bit melodramatic.

Also if we never get "that kind of deal" of a Prem Club again then my reaction would be "Thank god for that".

We've been absolutely shafted by Newcastle on this deal. At the time we signed Armstrong I think  £3m was a perfectly fair price for him and their end should have been accounted for by the add ons.

To then get 40% of any future profit on him as well is absolutely ludicrous. We take all the risk on him and do all the work developing him and they get almost as much profit on him as we do!

Not really a surprise with the Coventrio in office but Newcastle certainly saw us coming on that one.

 

Again though there's a little bit of rewriting history there as i think most of us were delighted to get him.

It was a great signing at the time and a real statement of intent it only looks bad now because they've ballsed up not tying him down to a longer contract. 

To get the lad here from a Prem club where they'd got him on a contract of about 19k a week was never going to be easy.  There's no way we would've stumped up an asking price of 6 million plus so they had to find some middle ground.

Iv'e no issue with it and think if he's sold they should pay up properly. Do business in the right way and it stands you in better stead than trying to worm out of things or shaft people.  Newcastle didn't sting anyone they put their terms on the table, we agreed them.

End of really for me, wouldn't matter half as much if we were set to get proper money for him now.

[roversfan99]

On 25/07/2021 at 15:03, booth said:

Not sure why people want Obafemi, it’d be another unproven forward taking up a place. Mowbray would never play him and he’d keep McBride away from getting an opportunity.

I personally wouldn't go for Obafemi for similar reasons ie he is unproven but we need a senior replacement for when Armstrong goes, we cannot expect a kid who has never played senior football to suddenly come in. His best bet would be a loan spell. We cannot avoid signings for fear of blocking unproven kids, by all means give them chances where appropriate but as well as having that senior experience. If they are pushing enough they will/should get game time regardless.

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 25/07/2021 at 15:06, roversfan99 said:

No way is it purely down to the manager. The embargo for example was unavoidable incompetence above his head. We have also seen this time and time again in summers, everything is so slow because of them, our transfer business is always slow, they usually insist on the manager coming over to beg pre-covid, the embargo is a second one within their ownership, they dont work in a logical way.

Mowbray needs sacking but Venkys are the ones to blame, that should never be forgotten and how anyone defends them, I have no idea.

If we had given say the WBA manager the time and money Mowbray has had, we would more than likely have achieved something. Or any other number of managers. 

Don't put words in my mouth saying I am defending them, but they have given him everything needed to be succesful here and he has arguably brought us backwards at this point. 

He has muddled tactics and lowered moral to rock bottom. Ultimately of course they should sack him, but in theory giving a manager time is the correct thing to do. However there is a point when this isn't the case anymore and we smashed that down last season. He is the issue right now. That's not even getting into the "man of integrity" stuff. Grand , no one would lose out on the money by walking, but like many things, he just shouldn't have said it then 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel