Summer transfer window 2021.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, tomphil said:

So the cv on that approach is very underwhelming with this present regime.  Maybe pages full of stats approach will yield better.  Because the judgement hasn't been very good so far.

Young players we produce ourselves tend to fare better or as well at least.

Difference is the risk we've taken on a young player in Pickering is minimal, peanuts in comparison to Brereton.

[tomphil]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Difference is the risk we've taken on a young player in Pickering is minimal, peanuts in comparison to Brereton.

As was Bell, it's the long contract and efforts to justify them that causes problems if they aren't up to it. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

As was Bell, it's the long contract and efforts to justify them that causes problems if they aren't up to it. 

A long term contract that's hardly costing the club ridiculous amounts of money. If Harry Pickering fails it's a drop in the ocean when compared with Brereton or Gallagher.

[Sparks Rover]

4 minutes ago, JoeH said:

A long term contract that's hardly costing the club ridiculous amounts of money. If Harry Pickering fails it's a drop in the ocean when compared with Brereton or Gallagher.

I agree with that on a one off basis.  I think now its another flop, then another....so the pressure increases irrespective of the money really. Mowbray has a very poor transfer record.  The pressure is on to deliver a good signing 

[JHRover]

Bell another one who will end up getting a new contract by default due to a lack of forward planning and ambition. 

Not good enough for a side wanting to progress and kick on but no doubt cheap and content to be on the bench and fill in when needed without rocking the boat so right at home here under Mowbray. 

I fully expect a number of those out of contract/loan in the summer to end up getting new deals. Not because they are good or anything but because the alternative - finding replacements in an admittedly tough market with a badly organised system at the club - will see us struggle to recruit alternatives on a budget.

Exciting times.

Benno will be another one, Jonno too.

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I agree with that on a one off basis.  I think now its another flop, then another....so the pressure increases irrespective of the money really. Mowbray has a very poor transfer record.  The pressure is on to deliver a good signing 

This is what i was getting at, the young ones signed so far might not have cost much in transfers but the wages add up.

Both Bell and Brereton should have been loaned out long ago.  1 to free up a wage or percentage.  The other to get some time under his belt and build his match strength. He doesn't like doing that with his signings that aren't working though.

Chapman probably had to tell him where to go in order to get bombed out.

[LDRover]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

A long term contract that's hardly costing the club ridiculous amounts of money. If Harry Pickering fails it's a drop in the ocean when compared with Brereton or Gallagher.

If they're shite, they're shite and not worth a place in the squad regardless.

[Oldgregg86]

ive never seen this pickering lad play. ive seen the little highlights and like any highlights package they are easily manipulated. However he does look great going forward as bell did when we all got sent that 2 minute highlights clip. Id love to believe he is a young talent ready to nail down a place in the first team for many years to come but what roversfan99 i think is trying to say and i certainly am is.... How can a DEFENDER have a highlights package and best bits and it not show any DEFENDING. Ive seen crosses, goals, free kicks, dribbling, assists. where's the amazing recovery challenges crunching tackles, tracking tricky wingers and not giving an inch, headed clearances. the highlights ive seen i want the lad in front of him to do 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Oldgregg86

[Guest]

The abilities of Amari'i Bell and Harry Pickering for me will not be compared and questioned once we've watched him for a season here. I accept apprehension on his signing, but I'm happy to place on record that I think he'll be a success. Happy to eat my hat if he isn't better than Bell or Douglas - but I have no doubts he will be.

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

The abilities of Amari'i Bell and Harry Pickering for me will not be compared and questioned once we've watched him for a season here. I accept apprehension on his signing, but I'm happy to place on record that I think he'll be a success. Happy to eat my hat if he isn't better than Bell or Douglas - but I have no doubts he will be.

id like to think he is. I'm confident he will be . i would just liked to have seen the odd tackle in the package as well as the assists and free kicks. Defenders defend first and foremost

Edited April 13, 2021 by Oldgregg86

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Being better than Bell or Douglas isn’t exactly setting a high standard. I was hoping for another Alan Wright. He was great going forward but he could make life really difficult for opposing wingers.

[Sparks Rover]

7 hours ago, JoeH said:

The abilities of Amari'i Bell and Harry Pickering for me will not be compared and questioned once we've watched him for a season here. I accept apprehension on his signing, but I'm happy to place on record that I think he'll be a success. Happy to eat my hat if he isn't better than Bell or Douglas - but I have no doubts he will be.

Eat your hat, we will still be left with shit defenders.  Mowbray has never bought a good defender, I don't expect him to start now.

[yellowsubmarine]

8 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Mowbray has never bought a good defender, I don't expect him to start now.

I dont think Mowbray bought many defenders in the first place. Ayala, Bell? Who else? Permanent not loans. Maybe Caddis and Paul Downing? Shocking.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Eat your hat, we will still be left with shit defenders.  Mowbray has never bought a good defender, I don't expect him to start now.

Yep, not one good 'un signed permanently in 4 years. 

[roversfan99]

8 hours ago, JoeH said:

The abilities of Amari'i Bell and Harry Pickering for me will not be compared and questioned once we've watched him for a season here. I accept apprehension on his signing, but I'm happy to place on record that I think he'll be a success. Happy to eat my hat if he isn't better than Bell or Douglas - but I have no doubts he will be.

To be fair, especially with Bell, its not a high benchmark to set! Lets hope you are right, do you think he will be a good Championship defender from the first day? One who will increase our chances of clean sheets?

Have you seen many full games in which he has played out of interest or is this based solely on data and highlight reels?

[roversfan99]

9 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

ive never seen this pickering lad play. ive seen the little highlights and like any highlights package they are easily manipulated. However he does look great going forward as bell did when we all got sent that 2 minute highlights clip. Id love to believe he is a young talent ready to nail down a place in the first team for many years to come but what roversfan99 i think is trying to say and i certainly am is.... How can a DEFENDER have a highlights package and best bits and it not show any DEFENDING. Ive seen crosses, goals, free kicks, dribbling, assists. where's the amazing recovery challenges crunching tackles, tracking tricky wingers and not giving an inch, headed clearances. the highlights ive seen i want the lad in front of him to do 

Exactly. Although I suppose you could argue that last ditch challenges would indicate proneness to be found out of position anyway and indeed a good defensive full back would excel by being steady and reading the game well which wouldnt make for a good highlights reel. But as good as it is to see him whipping in great crosses and free kicks in, Mulgrew got 10 goals in our first season back and the majority were losses or at best draws, they arent a defenders bread and butter.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, yellowsubmarine said:

I dont think Mowbray bought many defenders in the first place. Ayala, Bell? Who else? Permanent not loans. Maybe Caddis and Paul Downing? Shocking.

Hart. Cunningham was decent but on a loan deal.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[bluebruce]

5 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Eat your hat, we will still be left with shit defenders.  Mowbray has never bought a good defender, I don't expect him to start now.

Broken clock and all that though.

[riverholmes]

Full back has become, perhaps, the most important and the most difficult outfield position in the era of 4-3-3.

You're expected to be Cafu, virtually being able to be in two places at the same time. And, if your defensive midfielder isn't helping you out, then, it's nigh on impossible, I think.

Which makes me think that Pickering, next year, will struggle if we continue to play as we do.

[bluebruce]

Those pointing out he is playing in a poor defence should remember that he is a quarter of that poor defence.

[Blue blood]

On Bell I will say I though TM was unlucky with him. He was signed in league 1 and got into the league team of the season, had the physical attributes - so in theory he looked a good bet to move us forward. I can see why TM signed him. 

I am less forgiving of the fact that 3 years on he is still here when it's abundantly clear he isn't up to standard. Not having signed better on a permanent in three years is a bit of a mick take. That Douglas gets compared with him for who is better is criminal. Defenders are coming - yeah right. 

[yeti-dog]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

Those pointing out he is playing in a poor defence should remember that he is a quarter of that poor defence.

They should also remember that once Harwood-Bellis goes home the defence Pickering's joining aint no great shakes either..

[bluebruce]

4 minutes ago, yeti-dog said:

They should also remember that once Harwood-Bellis goes home the defence Pickering's joining aint no great shakes either..

Indeed. And personally I think we need someone who can fix a poor defence a lot more than we need someone who can whip a cross to an isolated 5 ft 7 forward.

[yeti-dog]

For me it's clean sweep time. 

Kaminski - keep

Pears - get rid, not even good enough to be a no 2 keeper, get a decent one in

Bell - get rid

Nyambe/JRC - keep one of 'em, I'd edge towards JRC and bring in a proper RB to compete 

Evans - get rid

Douglas - been a massive disappointment but might be worth a punt if (big if) he can stay fit to compete with Pickering for LB 

Wharton - keep but it's going to be a long road back.

Benno - get rid

Holtby - let him go (he wants to be in Germany with his missus and has tailed off badly in addition to not getting any younger)

Trybull - this one is tin hat time but I'd try and get him if Holtby and Evans are off. Obviously at least one other CM would also be needed though

Davenport - seems a bit lightweight - keep as a squad player?

Buckley - see above..

Johnson - get rid

Downing - get rid

Ayala - would love to get rid but I'm afraid he's the new Grella

Lenihan - if he wasn't the best of a bad bunch I'd say bye to him too - keep with gritted teeth

 Travis - keep but badly needs a full pre-season

Rothwell - toss a coin, can tantalise and infuriate several times in the same game..

Dolan - keep, shown some promise

Dack - long road back for him too. Really feel for him, hope he can relaunch his career.

Brereton - tin hat again , still believe he has something, early this season was borderline unplayable at times. Can a new manager do something with him? I'd like to see. 

Gallagher - can't get past the feeling he's going backwards. Might the new manager bounce help or do we cut our losses and sell him..

Armstrong - can't see him staying. Sell him for good money and hopefully reinvest the lot.  

Rest of  the loanees - Elliott, thanks, you're going to have a career.. Harwood Bellis - ditto, Branthwaite - premiership quality?, need convincing. 

As I said in an earlier post, it feels like there's an awful lot of work to do.

[pentelrobot]

15 minutes ago, yeti-dog said:

Pears - get rid, not even good enough to be a no 2 keeper, get a decent one in

Not easy to get rid of a player who has been given a four year contract. Same goes for Ayala-three year contract and he has only played a handful of games. Does anyone know what his injury is?