Summer transfer window 2021.

[JHRover]

It's quite clear now that barring any significant changes then Nyambe and Rothwell will both be on their way next summer.

By significant change i think it will require a change in manager or a substantial pay rise. Neither are going to happen here because Mowbray is more important than any player or supporter and his continued employment trumps any other consideration. So Venkys will see off any player or any number of supporters whilst sticking with the Mowbray show.

The fortnightly 'updates' from Mowbray are just excuse,  after excuse, after excuse. He knows it is ridiculous that we are in this position, knows that they have dropped several clangers here yet thanks to the Lancashire Telegraph and Radio Lancashire sympathisers and mouthpieces his excuses get published on a regular basis.

The latest one is that the wages to turnover ratio is far too high and is the reason we can't offer better terms to our existing crop of players. Admittedly this is high yet ignoring that every other club has a ratio of over 100% yet not many end up in this state of disarray as a result, and also ignoring that the Armstrong money should plug this gap even if the owners won't

Having slashed the wage bill by god knows how much this summer, returning to normality on crowds (other than the 25% decrease in customers Waggott has achieved), and landing a windfall through the Armstrong sale we are now supposed to believe that giving Nyambe a few grand a week more is an insurmountable hurdle.

What will Nyambe be on as a graduate of our academy?? £5k a week would be my guess. Even if he wants his wage doubling to £10k a week, there has to be some long term thought here.

As it stands he'll be on his way next summer for nothing, and we will have to source a new RB of equal or better quality. Not likely to happen. Or give him a new 3 year deal and his £5k increase. What commitment will that be? £750,000? Yet we would be able to sell him for 3,4,5 times that if needed and cover the cost.

Having spent the summer so far whinging about FFP rules to now be unable to tie academy players down to new contracts is the giveaway clue that this has never been about wage/turnover ratios or FFP rules.

It is pure and simple - Venkys have turned the taps off making it impossible to sign permanent players or give new deals to existing senior ones.

There's enough scope in the budget down there to land a couple of cheap loans or give new deals to the less experienced kids but not for the bigger deals.

I'd have a lot more respect for Mowbray if he admitted it, but he's more concerned with shielding the owners from any blame and hanging on to his job than telling the truth so on this sham goes. Sad thing is so many people accept it as the gospel truth whilst ignoring the blatant inconsistencies and complete lack of business sense behind it.

Edited August 20, 2021 by JHRover

[G Somerset Rover]

Hopefully we'll have a year to exercise on Brereton's deal (Sharpe is looking into it), which would take him through to 2023. If not, he'll have a number of agents in his head advising him to cash in on his new found fame, let's be honest.

And no, I still don't rate the bloke very highly!

Edited August 20, 2021 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[Roverthechimp]

19 minutes ago, Lucimo said:

Think we can forget about Nyambe and Rothwell signing. I'd sell the latter if the opportunity arose. Not sure we have adequate cover for Nyambe or I'd sell him too. In defence of Rothwell running his contract down, I believe we tried to sign him in a previous window but Oxford didn't accept the bid, so he ran down his last few months. May be wrong on that though. 

Question is why the move to Sheff Utd fell through... Rumours that it was our end that pulled the plug which, if true, is idiotic at best if we aren't planning on giving him what he wants.

[1864roverite]

12 minutes ago, Roverthechimp said:

Question is why the move to Sheff Utd fell through... Rumours that it was our end that pulled the plug which, if true, is idiotic at best if we aren't planning on giving him what he wants.

The rumour is he pulled out of the medical through illness and it hasnt been revisited YET!

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, islander200 said:

It's been 11 days since we sold Armstrong so it hasn't been more than a couple of weeks since we agreed a fee for Obafemi.

But we haven't just an interest in Obafemi since 11 days ago have we! We have an interest in Obafemi couple of months ago according to Mowbray. 

If I been the manager we would have had a new striker in and I wouldn't have been waiting for days for an answer or even a conservation with the players. I would have my 4 or 5 players line up and gone a get my striker in..

 

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

I reckon they’ll get Lenihan and a couple more done. Worry most about Nyambe and Rothwell. I’m pretty sure we’d get some compensation for Nyambe but I’d be looking to sell Rothwell. He ran his contract down at Oxford too…that’s the way he makes his money.

I would say getting Brereton Diaz, Rothwell and Lenihan new contracts is priority and something I think we can get done before Christmas plus getting Travis on long term deal 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, pick32 said:

Hopefully Diaz signs a new contract aswel, personally I don’t think he has done enough yet to pay back the club his transfer fee and still owes it to them to sign a new contract. 

But does his agent think that ?

[Eddie]

We are not unique in the fact that we are struggling to get players to renew contracts. 

I'm not a huge Mowbray fan and think other managers could do (much) better, but not everything is his fault.

Just last month, Southampton manager Ralph Hasenhuttl was pretty open about how they've been struggling to get players to renew contracts, why he thinks it is happening, and why it is bad for the game.

We should have been more proactive with some of these contract negotiations, but I have no doubt that almost every agent will be telling players to sit tight and test the market.

If that is the case then we are faced with only three real solutions: significantly overpay a player to get him to extend his contract (which is a path we've gone down in recent years and it has never worked out), hope that our players get towards the end of their deals and decide that Rovers are the best place for them, or get promoted and put ourselves in a position where players get what they want (more money and Premier League football) from this club.

The reality is that we, like a lot of other clubs, will lose players on frees. The positive side of things is that we are likely to be able to benefit from players at 'smaller' clubs running down their contracts.

[unsall]

32 minutes ago, JHRover said:

It's quite clear now that barring any significant changes then Nyambe and Rothwell will both be on their way next summer.

By significant change i think it will require a change in manager or a substantial pay rise. Neither are going to happen here because Mowbray is more important than any player or supporter and his continued employment trumps any other consideration. So Venkys will see off any player or any number of supporters whilst sticking with the Mowbray show.

The fortnightly 'updates' from Mowbray are just excuse,  after excuse, after excuse. He knows it is ridiculous that we are in this position, knows that they have dropped several clangers here yet thanks to the Lancashire Telegraph and Radio Lancashire sympathisers and mouthpieces his excuses get published on a regular basis.

The latest one is that the wages to turnover ratio is far too high and is the reason we can't offer better terms to our existing crop of players. Admittedly this is high yet ignoring that every other club has a ratio of over 100% yet not many end up in this state of disarray as a result, and also ignoring that the Armstrong money should plug this gap even if the owners won't

Having slashed the wage bill by god knows how much this summer, returning to normality on crowds (other than the 25% decrease in customers Waggott has achieved), and landing a windfall through the Armstrong sale we are now supposed to believe that giving Nyambe a few grand a week more is an insurmountable hurdle.

What will Nyambe be on as a graduate of our academy?? £5k a week would be my guess. Even if he wants his wage doubling to £10k a week, there has to be some long term thought here.

As it stands he'll be on his way next summer for nothing, and we will have to source a new RB of equal or better quality. Not likely to happen. Or give him a new 3 year deal and his £5k increase. What commitment will that be? £750,000? Yet we would be able to sell him for 3,4,5 times that if needed and cover the cost.

Having spent the summer so far whinging about FFP rules to now be unable to tie academy players down to new contracts is the giveaway clue that this has never been about wage/turnover ratios or FFP rules.

It is pure and simple - Venkys have turned the taps off making it impossible to sign permanent players or give new deals to existing senior ones.

There's enough scope in the budget down there to land a couple of cheap loans or give new deals to the less experienced kids but not for the bigger deals.

I'd have a lot more respect for Mowbray if he admitted it, but he's more concerned with shielding the owners from any blame and hanging on to his job than telling the truth so on this sham goes. Sad thing is so many people accept it as the gospel truth whilst ignoring the blatant inconsistencies and complete lack of business sense behind it.

What the hell has it got to with Mowbray, he doesn’t set the wages, and why come up with Nyambe on the assumption he’s on £5000 and he wants double and we should just pay it.

You,me and everyone on here haven’t a clue what he’s after,he might want £15000 a week,do we just pay want he and his agent want,same with Rothwell.

We have been down that road before paying silly wages,and that’s why we are where we are now,would love all the senior players to sign but we can’t just give in to what they want,has to be negotiated.

Would love to know how much every player was on,and then and only then we could argue if they deserve big rises.

[47er]

2 minutes ago, unsall said:

What the hell has it got to with Mowbray, he doesn’t set the wages, and why come up with Nyambe on the assumption he’s on £5000 and he wants double and we should just pay it.

You,me and everyone on here haven’t a clue what he’s after,he might want £15000 a week,do we just pay want he and his agent want,same with Rothwell.

We have been down that road before paying silly wages,and that’s why we are where we are now,would love all the senior players to sign but we can’t just give in to what they want,has to be negotiated.

Would love to know how much every player was on,and then and only then we could argue if they deserve big rises.

There's no such thing as the right wage for any player. Its all up for negotiation.

The problem is that if we won't pay what a player thinks he's worth and some other club will, then that player will most likely be off---as we are finding out. So do we just stick out and get relegated?

For the record I don't believe we are paying "silly wages" if anything we'll be on the low side.

[islander200]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

It's quite clear now that barring any significant changes then Nyambe and Rothwell will both be on their way next summer.

By significant change i think it will require a change in manager or a substantial pay rise. Neither are going to happen here because Mowbray is more important than any player or supporter and his continued employment trumps any other consideration. So Venkys will see off any player or any number of supporters whilst sticking with the Mowbray show.

The fortnightly 'updates' from Mowbray are just excuse,  after excuse, after excuse. He knows it is ridiculous that we are in this position, knows that they have dropped several clangers here yet thanks to the Lancashire Telegraph and Radio Lancashire sympathisers and mouthpieces his excuses get published on a regular basis.

The latest one is that the wages to turnover ratio is far too high and is the reason we can't offer better terms to our existing crop of players. Admittedly this is high yet ignoring that every other club has a ratio of over 100% yet not many end up in this state of disarray as a result, and also ignoring that the Armstrong money should plug this gap even if the owners won't

Having slashed the wage bill by god knows how much this summer, returning to normality on crowds (other than the 25% decrease in customers Waggott has achieved), and landing a windfall through the Armstrong sale we are now supposed to believe that giving Nyambe a few grand a week more is an insurmountable hurdle.

What will Nyambe be on as a graduate of our academy?? £5k a week would be my guess. Even if he wants his wage doubling to £10k a week, there has to be some long term thought here.

As it stands he'll be on his way next summer for nothing, and we will have to source a new RB of equal or better quality. Not likely to happen. Or give him a new 3 year deal and his £5k increase. What commitment will that be? £750,000? Yet we would be able to sell him for 3,4,5 times that if needed and cover the cost.

Having spent the summer so far whinging about FFP rules to now be unable to tie academy players down to new contracts is the giveaway clue that this has never been about wage/turnover ratios or FFP rules.

It is pure and simple - Venkys have turned the taps off making it impossible to sign permanent players or give new deals to existing senior ones.

There's enough scope in the budget down there to land a couple of cheap loans or give new deals to the less experienced kids but not for the bigger deals.

I'd have a lot more respect for Mowbray if he admitted it, but he's more concerned with shielding the owners from any blame and hanging on to his job than telling the truth so on this sham goes. Sad thing is so many people accept it as the gospel truth whilst ignoring the blatant inconsistencies and complete lack of business sense behind it.

Still haven't answered me over what you said the other day about how this summer will be the same as every summer and no money will be spent and no players brought in?

Agree the contract situation isn't ideal but look at our wages to turnover, something has to be done about this.What do you suggest?

 

[alex l]

I don't think anyone can deny we need to extend Brereton's contract, especially if he goes for free. But had we extended his contract last summer, before the performances of last season and Breretonmania, how many would have branded it ludicrous, undeserving etc? I imagine a good fair few. If you extend too early, you're likely paying a higher wage and then stuck with the player if they don't come good. 

On one hand we're trying to be more responsible and sustainable, you can't carry on at 190% ratio of income and wages. However the very nature of being sustainable means we can't give out the wages these players and their agents think they deserve or can get elsewhere. It's a big balancing act. 

[islander200]

44 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

But we haven't just an interest in Obafemi since 11 days ago have we! We have an interest in Obafemi couple of months ago according to Mowbray. 

If I been the manager we would have had a new striker in and I wouldn't have been waiting for days for an answer or even a conservation with the players. I would have my 4 or 5 players line up and gone a get my striker in..

 

I would say getting Brereton Diaz, Rothwell and Lenihan new contracts is priority and something I think we can get done before Christmas plus getting Travis on long term deal 

Easier said than done.Have you seen many permanent deals done in the championship.If Obafemi Is the best option available and he hasn't said no then we should not be walking away.You were saying all summer we wouldn't be bringing in permanent signings even with Armstrong sold, and Mowbray himself up until Armstrong was nearly out the door didn't know if he would be able to spend any of that money.

I know you see to want Healy brought in but again he is 6 years older than Obafemi and up to this point his goals have come in league one and the French second division.

Edited August 20, 2021 by islander200

[islander200]

25 minutes ago, 47er said:

There's no such thing as the right wage for any player. Its all up for negotiation.

The problem is that if we won't pay what a player thinks he's worth and some other club will, then that player will most likely be off---as we are finding out. So do we just stick out and get relegated?

For the record I don't believe we are paying "silly wages" if anything we'll be on the low side.

It will be on the low side but still doesn't take away from the fact we are spending far more money than the club is bringing in.

We don't know how much these player's want.Nyambes situation is a joke but would love to know how much Rothwell is wanting.He has started the season well but his time here he has been inconsistent and not one of our better players,for me doesn't warrant becoming one of our highest earners if that is the sort of money he wants

[JHRover]

49 minutes ago, unsall said:

What the hell has it got to with Mowbray, he doesn’t set the wages, and why come up with Nyambe on the assumption he’s on £5000 and he wants double and we should just pay it.

You,me and everyone on here haven’t a clue what he’s after,he might want £15000 a week,do we just pay want he and his agent want,same with Rothwell.

We have been down that road before paying silly wages,and that’s why we are where we are now,would love all the senior players to sign but we can’t just give in to what they want,has to be negotiated.

Would love to know how much every player was on,and then and only then we could argue if they deserve big rises.

It has everything to do with Mowbray. He's the manager, he runs the club along with his mates Waggott and Venus. He has been allowed to dish out substantial wages over the last few years, now we are unable to dish out lesser wages to tie down assets the club needs.

I've already explained the business logic behind it - we will be losing millions on Nyambe next summer. We have allready lost millions on Armstrong this summer. Same for others too. It will not cost as much to give them the pay rise they want.

It isn't a question of just giving them whatever they want. It is a question of realising that we have a valuable asset on our hands and ensuring we don't miss out on millions of value (again).

I'm glad you mention 'paying silly wages' and that's why we are where we are now. Who was manager when those wages were sanctioned and who was manager when Smallwood and Mulgrew spent 12-24 months sat on the bench/out on loan?

It is simply unacceptable that the club comes with this high and mighty principled stance on not giving contracts out willy nilly, yet that is exactly what they were doing only 12 months ago for players worth little or nothing to the club.

 

[JHRover]

35 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Still haven't answered me over what you said the other day about how this summer will be the same as every summer and no money will be spent and no players brought in?

Agree the contract situation isn't ideal but look at our wages to turnover, something has to be done about this.What do you suggest?

 

Look at any other clubs wages to turnover. We aren't alone or unique.

What do I suggest we do about it? How about drastically reduce the wage bill? That's been done with Mulgrew, Bennett, Evans, Holtby and co. down the road this summer.

How about we plug the losses by selling an asset? Done yet the excuses keep on coming.

How about we protect the club in future by securing assets on contracts rather than running them down like Armstrong?

How about we try to deal with the other side of the wages/turnover equation and actually increase turnover rather than allowing incompetents like Waggott to drag the club backwards with his approach?

[RoversClitheroe]

It makes zero sense how we lose so much money a month when we don't pay high wages to our players.

We've saved upwards of £50k a month and can't offer Nyambe or Rothwell a new contract, shut up Mowbray.

[islander200]

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Look at any other clubs wages to turnover. We aren't alone or unique.

What do I suggest we do about it? How about drastically reduce the wage bill? That's been done with Mulgrew, Bennett, Evans, Holtby and co. down the road this summer.

How about we plug the losses by selling an asset? Done yet the excuses keep on coming.

How about we protect the club in future by securing assets on contracts rather than running them down like Armstrong?

How about we try to deal with the other side of the wages/turnover equation and actually increase turnover rather than allowing incompetents like Waggott to drag the club backwards with his approach?

IV told you before the way the club is managed from top to bottom is a joke.I do not disagree with you on that.The problem I have with your posting is you stick the boot into the club over things that you think with no evidence to support it or you dig them out over things that clearly aint true, like what you said the other day that this summer will be the same as every other summer and no money will be spent.Despite Mowbray being backed every single summer since he has been here

You make it sound so simple,plucking figures out of the air when you have no idea like the rest of us how much these players want .

Nyambe should have been done long ago, but have to question whether the manager actually rates him (he leaves him out at every opportunity) I don't agree with that but it's the reality.

Do you think Rothwell is deserving of a contract that would put him in line with the top earners at the club if that's the sort of money he wants?Not for me, although will say we are starting to see a bit more end product now.

Like another poster said if we had given Brererton a new deal last year the majority wouldn't have been happy with that.

Lenihen been at the club for years and might fancy a change.Again we don't know what sort of money he wants.

We are not unique here,other clubs are experiencing the same problems.

[47er]

28 minutes ago, islander200 said:

It will be on the low side but still doesn't take away from the fact we are spending far more money than the club is bringing in.

Well we used to get much bigger crowds! Who's to blame for that? If we go with your template then the wages of the players will be reduced every season as the crowds dwindle still further.

In the end where will we be?

There has to be a plan and commitment from the owners, a proper administration  and competent staff at all levels. We had this not long ago. There has to be investment not just covering of losses. 

The club will improve, the crowds will come back.

If we carry on as we are oblivion looms. If only someone could explain it to them!

[unsall]

8 minutes ago, JHRover said:

It has everything to do with Mowbray. He's the manager, he runs the club along with his mates Waggott and Venus. He has been allowed to dish out substantial wages over the last few years, now we are unable to dish out lesser wages to tie down assets the club needs.

I've already explained the business logic behind it - we will be losing millions on Nyambe next summer. We have allready lost millions on Armstrong this summer. Same for others too. It will not cost as much to give them the pay rise they want.

It isn't a question of just giving them whatever they want. It is a question of realising that we have a valuable asset on our hands and ensuring we don't miss out on millions of value (again).

I'm glad you mention 'paying silly wages' and that's why we are where we are now. Who was manager when those wages were sanctioned and who was manager when Smallwood and Mulgrew spent 12-24 months sat on the bench/out on loan?

It is simply unacceptable that the club comes with this high and mighty principled stance on not giving contracts out willy nilly, yet that is exactly what they were doing only 12 months ago for players worth little or nothing to the club.

 

Still not answered the question of how much do we pay for the new contracts, in fact your saying we’ve paid silly money on contracts before but on the other hand saying pay them what they want. 
No one can answer the question unless you know the wages being offered, pointless argument, the agents know some other clubs will offer more, especially just come down from premier, but clubs like us have to have a cap, unless someone is exceptional, Armstrong, Dack etc, your Nyambe, Rothwell decent players but how much do you offer them, tough decisions.

[islander200]

6 minutes ago, 47er said:

Well we used to get much bigger crowds! Who's to blame for that? If we go with your template then the wages of the players will be reduced every season as the crowds dwindle still further.

In the end where will we be?

There has to be a plan and commitment from the owners, a proper administration  and competent staff at all levels. We had this not long ago. There has to be investment not just covering of losses. 

The club will improve, the crowds will come back.

If we carry on as we are oblivion looms. If only someone could explain it to them!

Of course I agree totally that the owners and the people on the ground have alienated a large portion of the fan base.But it's the reality of the situation we are in and despite what some others say ffp is real and can't just be ignored.If the pricing became more sensible we would see more in the ground but I don't think it would make much of a dent in the wages to turnover ratio especially if we just give our players what they ask for.

I actually think the owners have invested Money into the club not just covered losses.Certainly in the early days of the championship handing out ridiculous contracts and Mowbray has had money every single summer he has been here.The money been distributed stupidly though and again comes down to the owners not putting competent people on the ground 

[bluebruce]

3 hours ago, davulsukur said:

Yep, it would be ludicrous to let him leave for nothing after such a large fee and now starting to show some promise.

Again, as long as we offer him a contract on equal or better terms to his current deal, he will  not leave for nothing to an English club due to his age. Compensation would need to be agreed or set by tribunal, like with Hoilett, Mahoney and King.

Due to the fee we paid for him, I imagine it would be reasonably substantial. Though, unlikely to match what we paid or his current market value if he has a good year.

Edit - forgot to add, he can still go for free if he moves abroad though.

Edited August 20, 2021 by bluebruce

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Again, as long as we offer him a contract on equal or better terms to his current deal, he will not leave for nothing due to his age. Compensation would need to be agreed or set by tribunal, like with Hoilett, Mahoney and King.

Due to the fee we paid for him, I imagine it would be reasonably substantial. Though, unlikely to match what we paid or his current market value if he has a good year.

Not if he goes abroad though, and if he performs for Chile it wouldn't be a surprise to see Spanish teams take an interest

[47er]

18 minutes ago, islander200 said:

he money been distributed stupidly though and again comes down to the owners not putting competent people on the ground 

Agree and it won't change with these owners. Somehow we just have to get lucky and appoint a decent manager at least once.

[47er]

9 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Not if he goes abroad though, and if he performs for Chile it wouldn't be a surprise to see Spanish teams take an interest

Half the replies on social media relating to Brereton these days seem to be in Spanish!

[Iceman]

16 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Mowbray said he would walk if he felt he was holding us back.

 

lol