Summer transfer window 2021.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 minutes ago, phili said:

Yep we will be doing a substantial fee. I think anything up to £1m per player.

That’s crazy. For that sort of money I’d want a player who’s going to be a match winner not somebody who’s on the periphery of the team.

[G Somerset Rover]

21 minutes ago, phili said:

We have a budget of around £30k a week for new players this season, each loan player so far we are offering £5k a week for or 20-25% of their weekly wages so we will be guaranteeing to play them each week. I believe they were looking at Dale from Crewe last week to bring in permanently but that has died down over the weekend after Crewe wanted £1m plus £300k of addons for him.

Yet another wideman isn’t he? I pray to God we’re actually looking to spend some of our ‘budget’ on an actual striker. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[phili]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That’s crazy. For that sort of money I’d want a player who’s going to be a match winner not somebody who’s on the periphery of the team.

I believe Tosin Adarabioyo was around the £750-£1m loan fee mark. Man City sold him a year later to Fulham for £2m plus a 20% sell on clause. 

I am sure it would have been more prudent for us to try and sign him for £1.5m plus a 30-40% sell on than doing the loan at that fee.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Still plenty of work to do. A central striker, a left back, a centre back and a central midfielder who can get goals as a minimum I would say. 

Another centre midfielder when we already got 6 players for 3 positions. I would say next positions we need is a permanent striker and left back. Centre back possible but don't want to Carter progress into our team block now. Same with Wharton. 

43 minutes ago, phili said:

I think Chapman is heading back to Shrewsbury in the next few days.

No surprise to be honest. More surprise we re sign him in the first place. 

28 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Garnett wasn't even in the 18 Saturday. Poveda and Clarkson are more likely to block the progress of the likes of Davenport, Chapman,  Buckley Butterworth and Dolan who all need regular game time at this level.

Isn't Butterworth going on loan anyway to get regular football as planned? 

There is another 42 games to play yet and Buckley, Dolan, Davenport will get there chance. 

18 minutes ago, phili said:

I believe they were looking at Dale from Crewe last week to bring in permanently but that has died down over the weekend after Crewe wanted £1m plus £300k of addons for him.

Would be crazy to turn down that deal. Think Dale would be good signing and given he can play anyone between the front 3 would be ideal. Could be next Armstrong we need. Plus fits the club aged restrictions if true. 

[davulsukur]

15 minutes ago, phili said:

Yep we will be doing a substantial fee. I think anything up to £1m per player.

If we are paying anywhere near £1m for a loan deal, someone needs sacking.

All that money, wasted. Surely, with a better strategy and scouting setup we could be signing players for that money and actually making some profit on them further down the line!!

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, phili said:

I believe Tosin Adarabioyo was around the £750-£1m loan fee mark. Man City sold him a year later to Fulham for £2m plus a 20% sell on clause. 

I am sure it would have been more prudent for us to try and sign him for £1.5m plus a 30-40% sell on than doing the loan at that fee.

Wasn't his wages around 40 to 50k a week tho? 

[Blue blood]

3 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

If we are paying anywhere near £1m for a loan deal, someone needs sacking.

All that money, wasted. Surely, with a better strategy and scouting setup we could be signing players for that money and actually making some profit on them further down the line!!

YES!!!! Blooming obvious way to go. 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Another centre midfielder when we already got 6 players for 3 positions. I would say next positions we need is a permanent striker and left back. Centre back possible but don't want to Carter progress into our team block now. Same with Wharton. 

No surprise to be honest. More surprise we re sign him in the first place. 

Isn't Butterworth going on loan anyway to get regular football as planned? 

There is another 42 games to play yet and Buckley, Dolan, Davenport will get there chance. 

Would be crazy to turn down that deal. Think Dale would be good signing and given he can play anyone between the front 3 would be ideal. Could be next Armstrong we need. Plus fits the club aged restrictions if true. 

We need someone who can score goals from midfield, an attacking midfielder. My suggestion was Stiepermann who was at Norwich.

Wharton is injured and we are always walking on egg shells waiting for Ayala to get injured again. We need another centre back.

[phili]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Wasn't his wages around 40 to 50k a week tho? 

You could for example structure it so that Rovers do £20k of his salary, the player gets to keep his image rights and then does a deal to promote Venky's chicken in India for £20k a week. A benefit for the player as better income tax rates in India as well

Fully compliant with the regulations and he stays within our wage budget. Done, took me 5 mins to figure a way round the rules and i am not an expert on these matters.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, phili said:

You could for example structure it so that Rovers do £20k of his salary, the player gets to keep his image rights and then does a deal to promote Venky's chicken in India for £20k a week. A benefit for the player as better income tax rates in India as well

Fully compliant with the regulations and he stays within our wage budget. Done, took me 5 mins to figure a way round the rules and i am not an expert on these matters.

No matter which way you skin the cat to make it plausible for FFP, it’s still a hell of a lot of money to haemorrhage each week no?

[roversfan99]

Dale wouldnt make sense as an Armstrong replacement, different position before you factor in quality and likelihood of stepping up and really having an impact.

[phili]

Just now, JoeH said:

No matter which way you skin the cat to make it plausible for FFP, it’s still a hell of a lot of money to haemorrhage each week no?

Yep but it would be a way to pay the larger players we wanted to buy without effecting the club.

As Venky's are trying to break into Latin America at the moment, i am sure they will be looking at something similar to fund Brereton's new deal.

[Guest]

Just now, phili said:

Yep but it would be a way to pay the larger players we wanted to buy without effecting the club.

As Venky's are trying to break into Latin America at the moment, i am sure they will be looking at something similar to fund Brereton's new deal.

I get that it’s a way to do it without affecting possible embargoes etc, but it’s also just a lot of money to pay.

FFP can be frustrating but it’s there for a reason. A club with an income as low as ours shouldn’t splurging £50,000 a week on a single player, no matter how much we bend the rules to make it technically legal.

[phili]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

I get that it’s a way to do it without affecting possible embargoes etc, but it’s also just a lot of money to pay.

FFP can be frustrating but it’s there for a reason. A club with an income as low as ours shouldn’t splurging £50,000 a week on a single player, no matter how much we bend the rules to make it technically legal.

Nope we shouldn't but i was just showing if the club wanted to there are ways and means we could easily do it with a bit of creativity.

If FFP is replaced by Wage to Turnover % as seems likely then these types of deals will become all the rage.

[JBiz]

56 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It really isn't if it stops our own youngsters getting in the side UNLESS said PL youngsters are the difference between going up or staying up and not. Otherwise it's completely pointless plus it's a criminal waste of money. 

How much more obvious can it be?

Maybe if it’s “easy” for you to have all the right answers regarding an elite sport, an extremely competitive one at that, why aren’t you working in the game?
 

In reference to the Garret post - Garrett wasn’t in the squad because we’d signed someone arguably more “ready” compared to him. (in Clarkson)

It seems obvious to me that the general consensus of the staff here think our top u23 talents are likely to benefit from more game time, especially if they’re not “ready” to make a proper impact at this level.

This seems especially more OBVIOUS when premier league teams are sending their own talent that they can’t quite get enough games, down to us, it’s exactly the same process.

[47er]

1 hour ago, rovers11 said:

I personally feel Chapman is a lge 1 player and that's why he's always on the fringes. But we'll see if he proves his doubters wrong. 

We'll see if he gets the opportunity!

[Gavrover]

5 hours ago, Cjay90 said:

Poveda has a little bit of an X-factor, tricks and flicks, quick feet, the sort of things that can excite fans. But he is erratic, can occasionally be pushed of the ball to easily and his final ball is questionable at best.

He is not without talent but it remains to be seen whether he is just a street footballer (all tricks and flicks and fancy dribbles but no real substance) or whether he can turn into something more.

Both are potential outcomes imo.

He has had bright moments in our first team tbf to him and has never really had consistent minutes really.

So Dolan with less first team games then....looks a bang average player. 

[RevidgeBlue]

52 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Maybe if it’s “easy” for you to have all the right answers regarding an elite sport, an extremely competitive one at that, why aren’t you working in the game?
 

In reference to the Garret post - Garrett wasn’t in the squad because we’d signed someone arguably more “ready” compared to him. (in Clarkson)

It seems obvious to me that the general consensus of the staff here think our top u23 talents are likely to benefit from more game time, especially if they’re not “ready” to make a proper impact at this level.

This seems especially more OBVIOUS when premier league teams are sending their own talent that they can’t quite get enough games, down to us, it’s exactly the same process.

But what are OUR youngsters more likely to benefit from going forward?

Regular game time in the Championship or regular game time in Leagues 1 or 2?

You can't compare it to the Premier League. Their youngsters are behind some of the best players in the world, ours aren't competing against anywhere near that level of player.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

We need someone who can score goals from midfield, an attacking midfielder. My suggestion was Stiepermann who was at Norwich.

Wharton is injured and we are always walking on egg shells waiting for Ayala to get injured again. We need another centre back.

But we have of squad numbers and other positions we need filling like permanent striker, left back first. 

Wharton is back shortly and maybe look at defender who can right back aswell centre back so you got 2 positions cover by 1 player. Rather play JRC further forward

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Dale wouldnt make sense as an Armstrong replacement, different position before you factor in quality and likelihood of stepping up and really having an impact.

Maybe we should have signed Armstrong's replacement last January and do some forward planning for once. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, phili said:

You could for example structure it so that Rovers do £20k of his salary, the player gets to keep his image rights and then does a deal to promote Venky's chicken in India for £20k a week. A benefit for the player as better income tax rates in India as well

Fully compliant with the regulations and he stays within our wage budget. Done, took me 5 mins to figure a way round the rules and i am not an expert on these matters.

Fair enough Phili

[chaddyrovers]

8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You said that you didnt know who posted that about various managers

2 posters have heard the same thing so not hearsay at all

8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Chaddy, a few months ago you refused to acknowledge any criticism of Mowbray. 

It's been over 6 months since I wanted gone for various reasons like tactics, not using certain players in right positions, no clear transfer strategy which is now costing us big time. 

8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You are not of a position to be lecturing anyone on defending Mowbray

Really? My view is value as much anyone in the fan base including yours. 

[riverholmes]

Mowbray speaking before the WBA game: “If we lose a [Sam] Gallagher or a [Ben] Brereton Diaz, we’ll be playing the [Jack] Vales and the [Connor] McBrides. Whilst it might be an opportunity for young kids, it’s not ideal for winning games in the Championship."

Mowbray fails to acknowledge that he has been playing a 19 year old midfielder as his centre forward nor mentions Harry Chapman, who has signed up on a one year extension, possibly on higher wages, off the back of a promising loan spell in League 1 and is due to leave on a free next year.

Most importantly for me, is that he dismisses Connor McBride in the same breath as Jack Vale. McBride finished third top scorer in the Premier League U23 league last year, behind Liam Delap and Cole Palmer who are both involved in Man City's squad this year. Palmer came off the bench against Norwich at the weekend and Guardiola has recently stated that striker Delap will remain with the squad and not go on loan this season.

McBride's tally was aided by six penalties, admittedly, but he was also playing in a Rovers side that was effective but overall, was not technically as good as other sides who are predominantly Premier League outfits. Moreover, he would often play in a wide or deeper role. This is not to say that McBride should walk into the team, nor that he wouldn't benefit from a loan spell. However, I wonder if Mowbray will waste and damage young talent that this club financially cannot afford.

When Chapman, Brereton, Rothwell, Nyambe et al leave on free transfers in summer 2022, in the worst case but plausible scenario, or, perhaps, leave on reduced transfer fees, in January, and we're still a bottom half/quarter Championship club, we will likely need players like McBride, in some capacity, and with some experience gained from matches.

Edited August 24, 2021 by riverholmes

[JBiz]

6 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

But what are OUR youngsters more likely to benefit from going forward?

Regular game time in the Championship or regular game time in Leagues 1 or 2?

You can't compare it to the Premier League. Their youngsters are behind some of the best players in the world, ours aren't competing against anywhere near that level of player.

They aren’t going to be getting regular game time here because (if we are using our current tactics) the 3 “forward slots” are currently shared between BB, Gally, Dolan, Chapman - with Buckley somewhat available for these roles - and that’s before Mcbride / Butterworth.

So, to paraphrase TM thats “15 minute cameos in a squad or go play and start 30+ games”

Do the same with midfield and defence, and you’ve Magliore who’s arguably behind Carter and Wharton (who are both behind our main back two) and then Garrett et al who’ve Rothwell / Travis / Davenport / Clarkson / Buckley to dislodge

Like Magliore, Wharton, Chapman and Carter last season - I can’t see an issue sending our fringe players out for long periods to get proper football experience. Premier league clubs see the benefit in us doing the same for them, the advantage of professional football experience (even in 3rd / 4th tier) to regular u23s is well known.

With Wharton, JRC and Dack returning from injury between now and January - it surely would do Mcbride and Butterworth a lot more good to start and play most of a season as opposed to cameos (albeit against better opposition).

I expect us to go for another fullback on loan, so we’re not directly relying on Pike / Cirino as backups, again for me; they’d both massively benefit from cutting their teeth in league 1/2.

Finally - I agree, premier league experience is massive and I think we will benefit more from having someone with 10/15 top flight appearances, who’s been involved and around the standards set at that level - as in Poveda, as opposed to Butterworth.

Gally in the centre (must be dreaming about that ever happening) with Poveda cutting in right side, Diaz left…. Will be the 1# club in South America before too long 😂 

 

[1864roverite]

What concerns me is that Rovers are being really "bigged up" by the likes of Leeds, City and Liverpool for developing their loanees and yet some of our own youngsters appear to be struggling.

I've watched a few reserve games and there appears to be some real talent there i remain unsure as to whether some of them can make the leap to first team football but we are never going to find out unless they are thrown in to the team and given a chance.

Rovers are in a spiral of loaning and developing others whilst sending their own kids out and who don't seem to be being developed as good as what we are doing with other teams players !

[tomphil]

9 hours ago, phili said:

Yep we will be doing a substantial fee. I think anything up to £1m per player.

That is just plain crazy these lot are wasting money hand over fist yet get a pat on the back from some fans for operating within budget.

They don't quite grasp it at all it's money straight through the club.