Summer transfer window 2021.

[islander200]

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We need 4 centre backs, and with Wharton injured long term, we only have 3 and one of those is Ayala.

A kid on loan isnt ideal but thats down to those setting the budgets that it is the only option.

How much do you think the budget should be?

IL save my criticism of how much we spend or haven't spent until after the window.

One thing I have to say I find odd is (,not talking about you specifically), why people are wanting Mowbray being allowed to spend more money on permanent signings when he is out of contract next season?And the same people want him gone?I could understand if they felt Mowbray was the man to take us to the next level but he clearly isn't.

The Venkys certainly have to take some of the blame no doubt, it is under their watch and they allow these things to happen but this summer's budget is being dictated by the mistakes of the past few seasons were we have pissed away Money willy nilly on a raft of poor signings, giving long term deals to the wrong people and never selling players at the right time.All things that can be placed at Mowbrays and Waggotts door.

FFP is playing a part in this aswell, they are getting harsher with some of the rules now and enforcing punishments.

Not many clubs are making cash signings and yeah some teams moved early in the market and secured free transfer but for me only a few were any good and teams like Luton for example who have been quite active don't have the wage bill we have,  have recently come up majority of their players were on league one wages they will have much more wiggle room than us as will most clubs.

Teams with similar gates to us will have no way near as high a wage bill as us.Yeah we lost a load of players but that money needed to be reduced from our ridiculous wage bill.

Every time Venkys have turned the taps off in the period we have been in the championship it is when the ffp cycle is coming to an end and we are either pushing the limit or over the limit.Even when Coyle was in charge we were not long out of a transfer embargo

 

[nbdrovers]

7 hours ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Really hope this doesn’t force Carter out on loan. He needs to be in and around the first team.

surely more likely magloire going out?

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, islander200 said:

How much do you think the budget should be?

IL save my criticism of how much we spend or haven't spent until after the window.

One thing I have to say I find odd is (,not talking about you specifically), why people are wanting Mowbray being allowed to spend more money on permanent signings when he is out of contract next season?And the same people want him gone?I could understand if they felt Mowbray was the man to take us to the next level but he clearly isn't.

The Venkys certainly have to take some of the blame no doubt, it is under their watch and they allow these things to happen but this summer's budget is being dictated by the mistakes of the past few seasons were we have pissed away Money willy nilly on a raft of poor signings, giving long term deals to the wrong people and never selling players at the right time.All things that can be placed at Mowbrays and Waggotts door.

FFP is playing a part in this aswell, they are getting harsher with some of the rules now and enforcing punishments.

Not many clubs are making cash signings and yeah some teams moved early in the market and secured free transfer but for me only a few were any good and teams like Luton for example who have been quite active don't have the wage bill we have,  have recently come up majority of their players were on league one wages they will have much more wiggle room than us as will most clubs.

Teams with similar gates to us will have no way near as high a wage bill as us.Yeah we lost a load of players but that money needed to be reduced from our ridiculous wage bill.

Every time Venkys have turned the taps off in the period we have been in the championship it is when the ffp cycle is coming to an end and we are either pushing the limit or over the limit.Even when Coyle was in charge we were not long out of a transfer embargo

 

The managers contract situation is irrelevant. I have wanted Mowbray out for a while and I again judge Venkys on not bothering to sack him, in line with their general incompetence and negligence from day 1 regarding either appointing poor managers or allowing very average ones to stay on far too long after clear signs of regression. The fact that Mowbray is in charge means that Venkys still trust him to be in charge, this idea that I sometimes see that previous transfer indiscretions have caused Venkys to lose in trust in Mowbray is nonsensical, if they did lose it, again he should be sacked.

Not many teams have sold their best player for a considerable amount and managed to offload such a big chunk in the way of high earners. My expectation is certainly not to spend even half of the saved money necessarily, its just not to be quite so strict with reinvestment. Maybe a couple of million on a forward, maybe one more cheaper young player, a couple of loans (not the expected 5) and then a couple of frees to give us some experience, ideally without an unnecessary embargo.

FFP is not an excuse for how they operate, key assets have often been sold only under duress, all at once and at knockdown prices. Reinvestment is never consistent, often sales are followed by an absence of any reinvestment at all, this summer, the one with Coyle and the one when we sold Gestede and Cairney under Bowyer. This lack of strategy goes well beyond Mowbray and Waggott, as much as I want both out.

Like you said, it is not the end of the window yet and maybe I will be surprised.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Sorry Dmtp but that’s nonsense with the greatest of respect. 

Pay the players we want to keep decent contracts, it’s as simple as that, protect your assets, FFP doesn’t come into it really.

Venkys have turned off the tap, they’ve refused to pay extensions to contracts many times over the past 10yrs, this isn’t anything new. 

They've been forced to turn off the tap because they've already backed him above and beyond what is permissible under FFP guidelines.

If Mowbray had traded a little and/or kept the squad to a manageable size and/or not handed out contracts like sweeties to players who didn't warrant it and/or not wasted millions of pounds of dead money on loan fees there would no doubt have been a lot more room to manoeuvre. 

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

Next step----Carter wants a move. Mowbray is strangling the life out of this club

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58250280
 

Inks not even dry.

I mean, I know it’s not exactly going into a season with the confidence and expectations we should be, but why make things up, and assume things will be always worse case scenario?

[islander200]

35 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The managers contract situation is irrelevant. I have wanted Mowbray out for a while and I again judge Venkys on not bothering to sack him, in line with their general incompetence and negligence from day 1 regarding either appointing poor managers or allowing very average ones to stay on far too long after clear signs of regression. The fact that Mowbray is in charge means that Venkys still trust him to be in charge, this idea that I sometimes see that previous transfer indiscretions have caused Venkys to lose in trust in Mowbray is nonsensical, if they did lose it, again he should be sacked.

Not many teams have sold their best player for a considerable amount and managed to offload such a big chunk in the way of high earners. My expectation is certainly not to spend even half of the saved money necessarily, its just not to be quite so strict with reinvestment. Maybe a couple of million on a forward, maybe one more cheaper young player, a couple of loans (not the expected 5) and then a couple of frees to give us some experience, ideally without an unnecessary embargo.

FFP is not an excuse for how they operate, key assets have often been sold only under duress, all at once and at knockdown prices. Reinvestment is never consistent, often sales are followed by an absence of any reinvestment at all, this summer, the one with Coyle and the one when we sold Gestede and Cairney under Bowyer. This lack of strategy goes well beyond Mowbray and Waggott, as much as I want both out.

Like you said, it is not the end of the window yet and maybe I will be surprised.

The managers contract situation isn't irrelevant, he has one season left and I will be extremely surprised if he is here next season.Letting him bring in permanent signings that a new manager may not want would be equally as short termism as using the loan market difference being a prospective new manager won't have the problem of trying to find loan signings new homes.Saying all that I do think we will sign a new striker before deadline who will end up competing with Gallagher and Brererton for a wide striker role whilst the lad from Leeds will be put in Dolan's position 

You have a point with the Armstrong sale and the money brought in but we would have been budgeting the last 3 or 4 years forecasting we would have brought in more than 20 odd million In player sales In that time.The Armstrong money covers Brereton and Gallagher and 1 or 2 others but I do believe in general it's underestimated on here how costly the free transfer signings we have made in that time have been 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by islander200

[RevidgeBlue]

"Bielsa, Potter and Klopp's Blue and White Army"!

[JohnGo]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

Next step----Carter wants a move. Mowbray is strangling the life out of this club

Is it in your fantasy that Carter wants away. I’ve not seen anything to suggest he wants a move. He’ll be here for the full season.

[USABlue]

12 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

I'm curious how you define worst football ever?

Not sure of how that is defined but maybe this is a yardstick.  I have been a Rovers fan since I was 6.  I was not allowed to go without an adult till I was 13, so that is when I started watching.  I am now 63 and the footy on display for some of LAST year made me think about not bothering anymore.  Never before has that thought ever entered my head. So, one must consider, in my mind anyawy, that that by default, is a definition.  

[USABlue]

10 hours ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

A quick google seems as though Liverpool want to sell him for £5million, so probably not unless that's wrong.

I'd like to think that we would only look to get another winger in (irrespective of whether we keep Chapman or not) if it's because we're going to use Gally in the middle. 

Gally in the middle you craaaazy

[JohnGo]

We are going to have the 5ft 5in Leeds man as centre forward, with Dolan as backup. Mowbrays crazy formation!!! AA successful therefore must be the future.

[bluebruce]

39 minutes ago, islander200 said:

The managers contract situation isn't irrelevant, he has one season left and I will be extremely surprised if he is here next season.Letting him bring in permanent signings that a new manager may not want would be equally as short termism as using the loan market difference being a prospective new manager won't have the problem of trying to find loan signings new homes.Saying all that I do think we will sign a new striker before deadline who will end up competing with Gallagher and Brererton for a wide striker role whilst the lad from Leeds will be put in Dolan's position 

You have a point with the Armstrong sale and the money brought in but we would have been budgeting the last 3 or 4 years forecasting we would have brought in more than 20 odd million In player sales In that time.The Armstrong money covers Brereton and Gallagher and 1 or 2 others but I do believe in general it's underestimated on here how costly the free transfer signings we have made in that time have been 

 

 

I can't see the logic in doing zero long term planning because the manager is out of contract next season. A new manager may or may not want any given player next season, it's true, but I doubt he wants to inherit an absolute shell of a squad with no budget either.

By the same thinking, we wouldn't bother renewing the contracts of Lenihan, BB, etc either. Why bother when the new manager might not want them?

[islander200]

18 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I can't see the logic in doing zero long term planning because the manager is out of contract next season. A new manager may or may not want any given player next season, it's true, but I doubt he wants to inherit an absolute shell of a squad with no budget either.

By the same thinking, we wouldn't bother renewing the contracts of Lenihan, BB, etc either. Why bother when the new manager might not want them?

Mowbrays record in the market on more experienced has been poor for us in my opinion.I have no confidence the money will be spent well if it goes on experienced players.The players we are likely to be able to attract with the wages we can pay will still want decent enough money and 2 or 3 year deals to sign, we might get one good year out of them if we are lucky but then be stuck  paying them for nothing when nobody will take them on on anywhere near the money we are paying them. 

It's also a question off FFP,if we spend this summer again does that put us in a threat of going into an embargo next summer?What manager would come here If we are?

We have to accept the reality we are in and I agree wholeheartedly through the owners behaviour the majority of our fan base no longer go on and crowds have dropped below 10 thousand.Sponsorship down,on the telly two or three times a season.We are bringing In hardly any money and clubs with similar intake of income have no way near the wage bill we have 

With the resources we have every penny counts we ain't going up with Mowbray and with some of the other sides in this division I'm confident loan signings will be enough to keep us up,let a new man do the long term buys

Like I said before I do  think we will bring in a striker for a couple of million on deadline day but Mowbray will just play him as a wide striker anyway 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by islander200

[G Somerset Rover]

All of these loan signings for me is a case of Mowbray throwing enough sh*t at the wall and seeing what sticks. I’ll wager they’ll be more Barry Douglas than Harvey Elliot, but even if one has a half decent season, he won’t stop banging on about it for yonks afterwards.

I just pray that he’ll be doing it at a different club next season. 

[Boroblue]

6 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

All of these loan signings for me is a case of Mowbray throwing enough sh*t at the wall and seeing what sticks. I’ll wager they’ll be more Barry Douglas than Harvey Elliot, but even if one has a half decent season, he won’t stop banging on about it for yonks afterwards.

I just pray that he’ll be doing it at a different club next season. 

I agree. For me this is a dead season. Let’s not get relegated keep whatever money has been generated to ward off ffp and let’s see the back of Mowbray.

Next season hopefully new manager fresh ideas. Venkies surely have to get it right eventually.

Having said that off to boro tomorrow and still excited. I’m a walking contradiction 

[Boroblue]

Sorry Saturday before I get a lot of jip 

[Gav]

8 hours ago, Mike E said:

Without giving much away:

Venkys can't refuse something they haven't been asked to do.

As for the players in the Kean years, do you not think that was much more because of agent meddling than any Venky plot to save money?

With the smallest squad in Blackburn Rovers recent history Mike, ask yourself, does that ring true to you?

I've personally read Mowbray asking for contract extensions for players in the Lancashire Telegraph on more than one occasion, desperate stuff, but its clear they're turned the tap off and players will walk as a result, what a business model eh.....

Paul Lambert wanted to use some of the Rhodes money (9m) to bring in new recruits and sign 4/5 players to new contracts, all refused by Venkys, this isn't anything new, its been going on for years and he walked away.

In the past 18 months we've sold around £20m worth of assets, depending on which newspaper you read and we can't sign players to contracts? 

Venkys out

 

[Gav]

6 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

They've been forced to turn off the tap because they've already backed him above and beyond what is permissible under FFP guidelines.

Did the same apply to Gary Bowyer and Paul Lambert? How about Henning Berg who also wanted players signed to contracts when he arrived and ended up in the high court because Venkys wouldn't pay his contract!

As we all know, this refusal to sign players to contracts isn't anything new, its been going on for years, way before Mowbray came to the club?

[Mattyblue]

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

They've been forced to turn off the tap because they've already backed him above and beyond what is permissible under FFP guidelines.

If Mowbray had traded a little and/or kept the squad to a manageable size and/or not handed out contracts like sweeties to players who didn't warrant it and/or not wasted millions of pounds of dead money on loan fees there would no doubt have been a lot more room to manoeuvre. 

All true, but it is still the fault of the owners, as we go from one extreme to the other -

Firstly they allow managers here far too much of a free reign for signings and contracts when FFP is over the horizon somewhere.

Then, just like in the late Bowyer era, the taps are suddenly turned off and we see a summer of transfers and contract negotiations as farcical as this one.

Completely dysfunctional, it never changes, nobody ever learns, so your ‘maybe next year, Rodders’ optimism that once they let TM run down his contract we’ll begin some kind of renaissance is sadly misplaced.

[tomphil]

8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

We need 4 centre backs, and with Wharton injured long term, we only have 3 and one of those is Ayala.

A kid on loan isnt ideal but thats down to those setting the budgets that it is the only option.

It's a toss up between those spending it and those setting it.

One less kid put the wage towards something a bit more robust and keep another of our own in the squad. 2 kids costing 5k pwk + loan fees as opposed to somebody a bit more experienced costing a bigger contribution ?

Sorry but these kind of things surely fall at the managers door otherwise the ownership or some part of it really is playing real life football manager.

That, now we mention it would not surprise in the slightest by the way.

[islander200]

16 minutes ago, Gav said:

With the smallest squad in Blackburn Rovers recent history Mike, ask yourself, does that ring true to you?

I've personally read Mowbray asking for contract extensions for players in the Lancashire Telegraph on more than one occasion, desperate stuff, but its clear they're turned the tap off and players will walk as a result, what a business model eh.....

Paul Lambert wanted to use some of the Rhodes money (9m) to bring in new recruits and sign 4/5 players to new contracts, all refused by Venkys, this isn't anything new, its been going on for years and he walked away.

In the past 18 months we've sold around £20m worth of assets, depending on which newspaper you read and we can't sign players to contracts? 

Venkys out

 

It was only 2 weeks ago that 15 million of that money was brought in.

In the last 4 years we have sold Raya and Armstrong plus a few others for a few hundred grand each.

How many players have we brought in in that time? Look at our wage bill compared to turnover? Clubs with similar income are not carrying the wage bill we are?

If we spend this summer does that put us in an embargo next summer?

I just can't get my head round why the owners would have signed off on a multitude of player signatures, agree to pay a significant transfer fees for Gallagher and Brererton and then are not bothered about potentially losing Brererton on a free?

I am no fan of the owners but in terms of finance they have backed the current manager with competitive funds no doubt about that.

Teams like Luton and Preston could only dream of having the same sort of money spent on their squad yet they finish ahead of us?

The owners are a problem the biggest problem but the club has been terribly managed on and off the field under Mowbray and Waggotts watch.

The contract situation is worrying but we can't put a blank piece of paper in front of the players and tell them to write down a number and we just agree to it . According to Waggott Lenihen and Brererton are close to new deals.Rothwell and Nyambe may want to leave due to footballing reasons, both in and out of the team under Mowbray and Nyambe in particular been thrown under the bus a few times by the manager.

I would love new owners but I think it's more realistic them to strike lucky with a decent managerial appointment than them selling the club 

[Gavrover]

This centre back from Brighton means Magoloire will go on loan, Carter to stay. Magoloire although quick just isn't quite there yet for me. Playing 20 odd games in Holland is a step up to half a season in Scotland. Now if we don't buy a striker then that is the biggest sign we are in trouble...I'm not Confident 

[islander200]

7 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

All true, but it is still the fault of the owners, as we go from one extreme to the other -

Firstly they allow managers here far too much of a free reign for signings and contracts when FFP is over the horizon somewhere.

Then, just like in the late Bowyer era, the taps are suddenly turned off and we see a summer of transfers and contract negotiations as farcical as this one.

Completely dysfunctional, it never changes, nobody ever learns, so your ‘maybe next year, Rodders’ optimism that once they let TM run down his contract we’ll begin some kind of renaissance is sadly misplaced.

I don't think a renaissance but if a Wilder had had the backing Mowbray has had the club wouldn't find itself in the position it is now .

The late bowyer era we were heading and headed into a transfer embargo so they couldn't have spent in that time?

When they turn off the taps it coincides with the end off the ffp cycle

[tomphil]

8 hours ago, 47er said:

I'm on board with the youth policy but its imposed on us by necessity rather than being part of a plan.

But its the "let them develop into good players and then let their contracts wind down" bit I don't get!

If they grabbed a million quid for each one in compen plus add ons it might not look as daft. To them, not us, if someone has sold them a plan of a conveyor belt of youth now being set up.

The expense and commitment of new contracts then sitting there having to pay them with sod all income waiting for bids. The risk of injury etc versus grabbing a quick buck and it costing nothing that hasn't been already budgeted for ?

Nothing would surprise me and you know when Mowbray has one marked for the exit door. It all starts months in advance little digs in the press, getting dropped or subbed when playing ok. Similar patter with Nyambie as to Raya just over a longer period. Now Rothwell is getting it and Chapman.

Nothing to do with me guv, these can be good players but they aren't listening to me. It's not my fault it's nothing to do with me messing them around or playing them out of position. It's all on them i'm the messiah, look at Armstrong if you dare doubt me !

[Mattyblue]

5 minutes ago, islander200 said:

I don't think a renaissance but if a Wilder had had the backing Mowbray has had the club wouldn't find itself in the position it is now .

The late bowyer era we were heading and headed into a transfer embargo so they couldn't have spent in that time?

When they turn off the taps it coincides with the end off the ffp cycle

I know it does, that was the thrust of my post, but heading into FFP shouldn’t mean the vast majority of your senior players potentially walking away for nothing.

Of course a superior manager would’ve made a better stab at it than TM, but it’s a moot point. We won’t have a renaissance because the owners won’t appoint a Wilder.