Summer transfer window 2021.

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Given that Carter has performed well, Ayala has a chronic injury record and Lenihan also has a significant injury record it seems to me that Carter will get a lot of game time.

On top of that switching to 352 seems to be a core tactic for us (and one that is working well, if only early days) and Carter is well suited to left sided in a three so I can see him getting games there. 

Can't see the sense in sending him out on loan? He should get 20 games easily. Even with the loans coming in.

 

Talk of another defender coming in on loan and if like you say that we will be playing 3 at the back at times this season then surely the club will look to bring in a centre half/left back as we don't have a left footed option when we switch to a 3.

I would keep Carter, he looks more than capable but don't think it will do anything for his development playing a hand full of minutes

[47er]

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

I would keep Carter myself but I can also see the benefits of Carter playing every single week if he was to go on loan.

This guy from Brighton will be back up, we won't be guaranteeing him a starting place.

Ayala and Lenihen will be Mowbrays preferred 2 and when Wharton Is fit that could put Carter as potentially fourth choice centre back and possibly third choice at right back when Costello Is fit as Tm likes to play him at full back even though I don't agree with that 

We all agree we must have 4 centre-backs. What's wrong with Carter being one of them? He will play a reasonable number of games and his career can take off from there.

[joey_big_nose]

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

Talk of another defender coming in on loan and if like you say that we will be playing 3 at the back at times this season then surely the club will look to bring in a centre half/left back as we don't have a left footed option when we switch to a 3.

I would keep Carter, he looks more than capable but don't think it will do anything for his development playing a hand full of minutes

I'll eat my hat if we move Carter out. It would be absolutely crackers. 

[islander200]

3 minutes ago, 47er said:

We all agree we must have 4 centre-backs. What's wrong with Carter being one of them? He will play a reasonable number of games and his career can take off from there.

Nothing wrong with it like I said I would keep him but will Mowbray give him the minutes to aid his development that I am unsure about and I think he would be better served playing every week if that is the case.

Suppose it could be looked at again in January if he isn't getting enough minutes

[roverblue]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

We will get money for Nyambe regardless if he runs his deal down as it will go to tribunal.

What will we get for Rothwell?I'd say it wouldn't be very much so probably best keeping for the season unless we were to get decent money 

Yeah hopefully we get something for Nyambe, i bet it would be a lot less than we could get for him in an open market right now though.

 

Rothwell is not going to be the difference between promotion or relegation so if we could get £2m for him now then we should take it. Let Buckley/Davenport/Clarkson/Johnson take his spot for the season

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Carter will go on loan and so he should. He's going to be 3rd choice here and I'd rather him play a full season at a team in Burton who's fans and staff love him every single week for another season and develop. He's wasted sitting on our bench when we could bring in someone else's player for a season to sit on our bench behind Ayala for half the year. 

The bit that's baffling is why anyone would let us loan one of their centre-backs when he's probably not going to play, but if someone does, happy day.

I can't come anywhere near to agreeing with this. Carter has been our best player in the last two games and gives options across two defensive positions. So we sign a kid on loan from Brighton who nobody knows anything about and loan out our most promising defender? That sounds like the perverse logic that reverberates around the Ewood hierarchy.

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, roverblue said:

Yeah hopefully we get something for Nyambe, i bet it would be a lot less than we could get for him in an open market right now though.

 

Rothwell is not going to be the difference between promotion or relegation so if we could get £2m for him now then we should take it. Let Buckley/Davenport/Clarkson/Johnson take his spot for the season

Teams ain't spending money at this level on permanent deals so I don't think we would get very much for Nyambe in this current window, we may even get more for him in the long run if it goes to tribunal were  it's standard for 20% sell on to be awarded as part of the deal.

If we could get upwards of 2 million for Rothwell I would look at it but don't think we would get that much but who knows people might start to panic as we approach deadline

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I can't come anywhere near to agreeing with this. Carter has been our best player in the last two games and gives options across two defensive positions. So we sign a kid on loan from Brighton who nobody knows anything about and loan out our most promising defender? That sounds like the perverse logic that reverberates around the Ewood hierarchy.

What you or I or Joe or whoever would do is pretty much irrelevant though.Its what Mowbray will do that matters and I'm not sure he would give Carter the minutes he perhaps would deserve at this time.

Ayala and Lenihen will 100% be ahead of him, when Wharton comes back then him aswell .Mowbray will probably pick Costello at full back when he is fit.The Brighton lad won't be guaranteed a starting position

 

[Wheelton Blue]

Wharton will (or should) have to fight for the shirt and prove his fitness.

IMO he's now below Carter in the pecking order, at least until the above happens.

There's no guarantee that Wharton will return as the player he was.

[Admiral Nelsen]

Just now, Wheelton Blue said:

Wharton will (or should) have to fight for the shirt and prove his fitness.

IMO he's now below Carter in the pecking order, at least until the above happens.

There's no guarantee that Wharton will return as the player he was.

 

That's a fair point, but as with Carter, Wharton is a player that one way or another, needs to be playing somewhere. 

Perhaps a better approach would be to wait until January, keep Carter as a part of the side then loan Wharton to a L1 team in January to get his form and fitness up to speed? 

[arbitro]

4 minutes ago, islander200 said:

What you or I or Joe or whoever would do is pretty much irrelevant though.Its what Mowbray will do that matters and I'm not sure he would give Carter the minutes he perhaps would deserve at this time.

Ayala and Lenihen will 100% be ahead of him, when Wharton comes back then him aswell .Mowbray will probably pick Costello at full back when he is fit.The Brighton lad won't be guaranteed a starting position

 

It is up to Mowbray of course but I have very little faith in his judgement. We have two first choice centre halves, one, on Mowbrays admission, needs to be wrapped in cotton wool and is already on two yellow cards. Wharton is a few weeks away yet so for me it really needs somebody like Carter to stay and be ready when required. And if Mowbray is going to play his three at the back we need three decent centre backs and cover too.

[roversinmyblood]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

It doesn't have to ring true if it is true.

Venkys don't scrimp on money unless the rules tell them to (FFP etc). The exceptions have been when they intend to replace a manager.

Happened with Bowyer. Happened with Lambert (as you mention). I believe it's happening with Mowbray too.

However, from as close to the horse's mouth as you can get, Venkys' haven't even been asked about contract extensions beyond those with 'trigger' options.

Do you know why they haven’t been asked? Is it because they can’t increase their pay within the current wage structure?

[islander200]

11 minutes ago, arbitro said:

It is up to Mowbray of course but I have very little faith in his judgement. We have two first choice centre halves, one, on Mowbrays admission, needs to be wrapped in cotton wool and is already on two yellow cards. Wharton is a few weeks away yet so for me it really needs somebody like Carter to stay and be ready when required. And if Mowbray is going to play his three at the back we need three decent centre backs and cover too.

I agree with everything you say but they are talking about another defender being signed on loan presumably a left footed for when we do switch to 3 at the back.

I think Carter is more than capable I just worry that if he is kept on he won't get enough minutes and will stifle his development.

For me he has shown that he is capable but with the manager pressing ahead with bringing in loan defenders then it just doesn't instill me with confidence that Mowbray feels the same

[47er]

And I'll go back to my much-misunderstood original post on this subject. If we keep messing Carter around he'll leave.

[roversinmyblood]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Carter will go on loan and so he should. He's going to be 3rd choice here and I'd rather him play a full season at a team in Burton who's fans and staff love him every single week for another season and develop. He's wasted sitting on our bench when we could bring in someone else's player for a season to sit on our bench behind Ayala for half the year. 

The bit that's baffling is why anyone would let us loan one of their centre-backs when he's probably not going to play, but if someone does, happy day.

Should he really go out on loan though? TM said that after his time in League1 he could handle the physical players, but he wasn’t yet savvy enough to deal with the cute, clever players of the Championship. So how is going back on loan to face league 1 players going to help his development? Surely he needs to face Championship players to develop. Even training with our players everyday must help and Mowbray should be coaching him in the ways of a seasoned CB.

He also gives us cover for a number of positions across the back four.

 

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

Because I've learned by experience!! You don't think Venkys/Mowbray/Waggot decision-making should not be looked at with pessimism?

Where have you been?

Its not as if clear examples aren't staring you in the face---Raya,Nyambe,Rothwell---all handled badly by Mowbray--1 gone, 2 to go.

Carter looks a good prospect---if he's treated as badly as others have been, its hardly projecting wildly to think he'll be off.

Yea 1 gone, sold for 5 times more than we paid for his replacement (who’s arguably better)

That doesn’t mean I think they’re shrewd operators either, but they haven’t got everything wrong.

When Big Ben, Kaminski, Nyambe and Rothwell et al leave on a free I’ll grab the pitchfork and join you, but I just don’t think it’s the most likely outcome.

Of course, they’re not all going to stay. Some might feel they can earn more elsewhere, others might be frustrated with position / playing time - however the idea that they’ll all leave for free, to me (at least) seems like classic doom mongering!

 

[USABlue]

12 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Great Post.

I think the cretins on the ground at Ewood will be held accountable in the sense that this is their last season and they possibly may not even get that if looks like we're in serious trouble but I can't really understand why action wasn't taken at the end of last season. Unless the thinking is that this season is Mowbray's mess, he'll have to sort it out and the landscape might look a lot brighter for a new team in 12 months time.

Difficult to see how that will be the case without securing most of the necessary contract extensions though and if that is the approach it's taking quite a gamble with our Chamlionship status.

Not firing Mowbray and the contact issues are like burning the rope at both ends.  Not firing Mowbray last season was Keanesque disregard for their "baby".  Idiots they are just idiots.

[47er]

Just now, JBiz said:

Yea 1 gone, sold for 5 times more than we paid for his replacement (who’s arguably better)

That doesn’t mean I think they’re shrewd operators either, but they haven’t got everything wrong.

When Big Ben, Kaminski, Nyambe and Rothwell et al leave on a free I’ll grab the pitchfork and join you, but I just don’t think it’s the most likely outcome.

Of course, they’re not all going to stay. Some might feel they can earn more elsewhere, others might be frustrated with position / playing time - however the idea that they’ll all leave for free, to me (at least) seems like classic doom mongering!

 

They'll leave for less than they are worth, Raya already has.

[USABlue]

11 hours ago, JBiz said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58250280
 

Inks not even dry.

I mean, I know it’s not exactly going into a season with the confidence and expectations we should be, but why make things up, and assume things will be always worse case scenario?

I like this young Carter lad.  Caught my eye as soon as he came on in the first game.  Still new enough too that Mowbray has not screwed him up yet, but he will.  Get this clown and his buddies gone.

Edited August 26, 2021 by USABlue

[JBiz]

4 minutes ago, 47er said:

They'll leave for less than they are worth, Raya already has.

Arguably correct however what is a players worth in context if we spent 30% of the fee we recouped on his replacement who’s now possibly worth more?

I agree that we are far more Birmingham than Brentford but they’re example and standard was a top class, modern, consistently evolving approach.

We’re bang average (with a huge benefactor)

Edited August 26, 2021 by JBiz

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Darwen Rover 007 said:

I would take the 2 x promotion one trick pony any day of the week! 

Our problem is, that we are stuck with a no trick donkey as manager.

[47er]

4 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Arguably correct however what is a players worth in context if we spent 30% of the fee we recouped on his replacement who’s now possibly worth more?

I agree that we are far more Birmingham than Brentford but they’re example and standard was a top class, modern, consistently evolving approach.

We’re bang average (with a huge benefactor)

"benefactor"?  That's one word for it!

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, 47er said:

"benefactor"?  That's one word for it!

😂 touché

 

[Gav]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

Venkys don't scrimp on money unless the rules tell them to (FFP etc). 

Try telling that to the Rovers in the community team who were all fired when we got relegated under king rat, cost cutting.

Why have we no scouting network? 

Why have we just sacked the European scout? 

Why are the backroom team all leaving?

Why can't we get staff to work in the club shop the Saturday after the new shirt is released?

Why does Ewood look like a shit tip?

Why did Steve Patrick leave?

Why has the pitch been awful since the day Steve left?

Why did the club doctors leave?

Why has the club been massively downgraded over the past 10yrs?

All cost cutting Mike, nothing to do with FFP and the list above goes on and on and on.....

Edited August 26, 2021 by Gav

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, RoversClitheroe said:

I personally think Carter is better than Lenihan and Wharton better than Lenihan and Ayala.

I'd be keeping Carter to partner with Wharton when back fit as I think we'd concede a lot less goals.

Unsure how you can come to that conclusion. Carter has played 2 Championship games at centre back, we conceded 3 in both and one in particular he was all over the place in. Seemingly done very well in a weak League 1, im guessing neither of us saw much if any of him there, and he has stood in admirably in an alien position that he clearly isnt totally uncomfortable with, so he seems to have matured after his loan. But massively premature to suddenly rank him above Lenihan. Lenihan isnt perfect by any means but hes underrated perhaps, missed 5 last season in which we lost 3, and missed 9 the season before in which we lost 6, with 2 wins within that 14. We miss him when he doesnt play. Wharton looked good for a couple of games last season, but again, minimal evidence.

I think both look like very good prospects who have benefitted hugely from loans. But far too early to suggest that they are our best 2.

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

Carter will go on loan and so he should. He's going to be 3rd choice here and I'd rather him play a full season at a team in Burton who's fans and staff love him every single week for another season and develop. He's wasted sitting on our bench when we could bring in someone else's player for a season to sit on our bench behind Ayala for half the year. 

The bit that's baffling is why anyone would let us loan one of their centre-backs when he's probably not going to play, but if someone does, happy day.

We need 4 centre backs though, as much as I agree that Carter could do with a loan, ideally at a better team than Burton for a different challenge, it cant be before January with Wharton out for a fair while.