Summer transfer window 2021.

[JohnGo]

Do any of the ITK’s know which striker we are looking to sign.  418 pages and  no permanent signing!

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, Sparks Rover said:

Like someone said yesterday "the funds were there, we just couldn't get it over the line...."🙄

I would say that's down to the incompetence of the people trying to get the deals done as opposed to the money only recently becoming available.

We agreed a fee for Obafemi apparently so it must have been agreed the money was available at that point.

What the **** is this bloke Park playing at? We should have had an Armstrong replacement done and dusted within 2-3 days of him leaving. Once Obafemi started stringing us along we should have had reliable back up options.

[JHRover]

25 minutes ago, islander200 said:

With crowds of 10 thousand, sponsorship down, miniscule TV money,a wage bill far exceeding our income,spent more on transfers than received.You explain how the club isn't really under threat of not meeting FFP requirements???

Crowds of 10,000 - so do many other clubs in this league

Sponsorship down - why is this unique to Rovers?

Wage bill far exceeding income - welcome to the Championship 

Spent more on transfers than received - no longer the case thanks to Armstrong and Raya

You seem obsessed with the Ayala deal. He was a free agent. End of story. Whatever signing on fee he got as a free agent from Middlesbrough we do not know. Probably a lot less than the cost of paying for a CB from another club.

As I keep on saying- what is more important - getting promoted/surviving in the Championship or complying with these rules and risking relegation to League One? 

 

[JHRover]

26 minutes ago, Eddie said:

People have come on the Forum and given their opinion and interpretation...

And now, here is my opinion presented as fact. 🙄

Everyone on here offers their interpretation or opinions as facts. That's the point of a Forum. Do I need to add a disclaimer to every post that I make?

 

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

 

As I keep on saying- what is more important - getting promoted/surviving in the Championship or complying with these rules and risking relegation to League One? 

 

Do you realise that breaking the rules makes it easier to slide into league one? Points deductions, court battles, embargo’s?

Sheffield Wednesday / Derby failed to circumvent the rules, where others have successfully got round it.

Didn’t we have an embargo after Lambert left - hence selling Duffy? Didn’t that prevent or limit wages / transfer then?

 

 

[G Somerset Rover]

16 minutes ago, JohnGo said:

Do any of the ITK’s know which striker we are looking to sign.  418 pages and  no permanent signing!

I have a sneaky feeling we won't land one come Wednesday morning. Loan at best.

"We tried"

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Crowds of 10,000 - so do many other clubs in this league

Sponsorship down - why is this unique to Rovers?

Wage bill far exceeding income - welcome to the Championship 

Spent more on transfers than received - no longer the case thanks to Armstrong and Raya

You seem obsessed with the Ayala deal. He was a free agent. End of story. Whatever signing on fee he got as a free agent from Middlesbrough we do not know. Probably a lot less than the cost of paying for a CB from another club.

As I keep on saying- what is more important - getting promoted/surviving in the Championship or complying with these rules and risking relegation to League One? 

 

The clubs with 10 thousand crowds ain't carrying our Wage bill nor are they spending 5 million and 7 million on transfer fees.Try again.

I keep going on about Ayala because of what you said.You criticised the club for not paying what it took to get him here.Then we do sign him you make out it cost the club hardly any money.

We have still spent more In transfer fees if not then it's breaking even.We made about 10 on Armstrong and 5 on Raya.And we only received the Armstrong money 2 week ago ffs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Do you realise that breaking the rules makes it easier to slide into league one? Points deductions, court battles, embargo’s?

Sheffield Wednesday / Derby failed to circumvent the rules, where others have successfully got round it.

Didn’t we have an embargo after Lambert left - hence selling Duffy? Didn’t that prevent or limit wages / transfer then?

 

 

Ffp is just something made up according to him 

[JBiz]

Just now, islander200 said:

Ffp is just something made up according to him 

He has a point that the money we’ve got “backing us” potentially should afford some creative “accounting” or finding foreign sponsors to get round the rules. Hasn’t stopped a few teams over the last few years skirting it - Watford, Leicester, Bournemouth etc

[tomphil]

For all we know Mowbray has told them he can cover the striker position with these young loans.

For all we know someone else is telling them i can find you another young British 'investment' striker with your Armstrong money.

It's likely many people are still blowing smoke up rear ends in the form of so called advice. Just depends on which if any they pick or if they go with a bit of both to keep everybody happy.

I reckon it's fair to assume Mowbrsy & Waggot present their plan and get the wages budget for it. Then anything extra is on a whim but by no means guaranteed to anybody so anything could happen.

That's how it's always been there's nowt different happening there'll be loads of activity in the void between here and India.  Just a question of if the Pune farmhouse radar picks up on it or not. 

It would though be a bit daft if they just spend for the sake of it that's how you end up with the BBs and Gallaghers.

[phili]

3 minutes ago, JBiz said:

He has a point that the money we’ve got “backing us” potentially should afford some creative “accounting” or finding foreign sponsors to get round the rules. Hasn’t stopped a few teams over the last few years skirting it - Watford, Leicester, Bournemouth etc

It should afford us a lot of creative accounting and ability to bend the rules. However that requires employing good people to run the club which is something Venky's have always avoided doing.

So pretty much everything falls back to Venky's ownership and the structure they have implemented. We are in a viscious circle all the time until they sell up.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

53 minutes ago, Gav said:

That lad Armstrong didn't do to badly 47er.

More of the same please Mowbray.

That’s after he played a season as a winger.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

People have come on the Forum and given their opinion or interpretation of the FFP situation.

That doesn't mean it is correct or entirely accurate.

Venky's current management of the club is on similar lines to what it was in 2017 under Coyle. Selling assets, no money, cheap loans and a manager who shouldn't be here.

You can credit them for pumping in essential funds to keep the club in business and meet their liabilities and commitments. But all this trajectory is going to deliver is further decline and loss of assets on free transfers.

Stupidity and short sightedness.

Next news is we lose Lenihan and Nyambe on free transfers and you will be using FFP as an excuse on why we can't do anything.

 

 

You just want to ignore the facts thats they FFP rules exist and they have to follow otherwise you end up in embargo's and transfer bans. Just look Bolton, Wigan, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday as cases when they down due to embargo and bans. 

Both Duffy and Hanley wanted out of Rovers after Lambert left the club. 

Do you want Rovers to keep losing money each an every season? and would you be in favour of us spending of 30 or 40 million to ensure we challenge for promotion and faces the consequences after like selling of best players, transfers bans and embargo if we didn't achieve this

Isn't Lenihan close to agree a new contract btw?

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That’s after he played a season as a winger.

And was on loan…! 😂 

[JHRover]

9 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Do you realise that breaking the rules makes it easier to slide into league one? Points deductions, court battles, embargo’s?

Sheffield Wednesday / Derby failed to circumvent the rules, where others have successfully got round it.

Didn’t we have an embargo after Lambert left - hence selling Duffy? Didn’t that prevent or limit wages / transfer then?

 

 

Derby actually succeeded in circumventing the rules. They haven't recieved any points deductions.

Sheffield Wednesday did get a points deduction which contributed towards their relegation. That points deduction was imposed after they were found guilty of back dating their accounts to fiddle their FFP calculations. It was not imposed for spending too much.

The only club to get a points deduction for spending too much was Birmingham - they waited until they were safe in mid-table then gave them a 6 point deduction that made no difference to anyone.

Birmingham and Derby are in the Championship still. Other FFP breakers such as Bournemouth, Leicester, QPR, Cardiff, Reading, Fulham don't seem to be doing too badly either.

A transfer embargo now would make no difference to our present predicament. You can still sign players under an embargo - so we could still go with our begging bowl to Brighton for their loans and could even sign free agents provided their wages were within limits. So I'm struggling right now to understand how an embargo would be an issue when we are limiting ourselves so much to supposedly avoid an embargo.

What difference would an embargo have made to our business this summer?

12 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Ffp is just something made up according to him 

Not made up but just amazing how so many other clubs manage to expertly avoid any difficulties with it whilst for the second time in four years we are now having to slash costs and cut right back supposedly in some desperate attempt to avoid sanctions.

 

[JHRover]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

You just want to ignore the facts thats they FFP rules exist and they have to follow otherwise you end up in embargo's and transfer bans. Just look Bolton, Wigan, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday as cases when they down due to embargo and bans. 

Both Duffy and Hanley wanted out of Rovers after Lambert left the club. 

Do you want Rovers to keep losing money each an every season? and would you be in favour of us spending of 30 or 40 million to ensure we challenge for promotion and faces the consequences after like selling of best players, transfers bans and embargo if we didn't achieve this

Isn't Lenihan close to agree a new contract btw?

Bolton and Wigan had nothing to do with FFP. Their problems were caused by owners losing interest and stopping spending.

I'm not interested in the so-called reasons why players wanted out or not. There's always an excuse. Bit like when Ben Marshall 'wanted out' and 'refused' a new contract and then later he admitted neither were true. I'm sure appointing a clown like Coyle would make any half decent player question his future at the club. Fact is that they were both sold for £10,000,000 and we signed Gordon Greer and Wes Brown to replace them and got relegated. No club in their right minds does that.

I don't want Rovers to keep losing money. But I accept that if we want to even survive in this division that is going to happen. I am becoming increasingly tired with this inference that Rovers are a special case on losing money and having a high wages to turnover ratio. The name of the game in the Championship is that millions of pounds get lost every year. Don't like it then don't get involved with it. There is a way to avoid it - difficult - but it involves having a very productive academy or making big money on sales on a regular basis. We have the academy yet are allowing products from it to run their contracts down. We also have assets - Armstrong - sold for big money and yet still in this pickle.

I'm not for one minute suggesting we spend £40 million. You're just being silly now. I don't accept that the club cannot even sign free agents or a few low price players and I do not accept that our policy of borrowing kids from Brighton and Leeds is sustainable, suitable or will lead to any sort of success. It is in itself at odds with FFP that you love to go on about - because if FFP is the big issue here then we need assets not loans.

[phili]

7 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Derby actually succeeded in circumventing the rules. They haven't recieved any points deductions.

Sheffield Wednesday did get a points deduction which contributed towards their relegation. That points deduction was imposed after they were found guilty of back dating their accounts to fiddle their FFP calculations. It was not imposed for spending too much.

The only club to get a points deduction for spending too much was Birmingham - they waited until they were safe in mid-table then gave them a 6 point deduction that made no difference to anyone.

Birmingham and Derby are in the Championship still. Other FFP breakers such as Bournemouth, Leicester, QPR, Cardiff, Reading, Fulham don't seem to be doing too badly either.

A transfer embargo now would make no difference to our present predicament. You can still sign players under an embargo - so we could still go with our begging bowl to Brighton for their loans and could even sign free agents provided their wages were within limits. So I'm struggling right now to understand how an embargo would be an issue when we are limiting ourselves so much to supposedly avoid an embargo.

What difference would an embargo have made to our business this summer?

Not made up but just amazing how so many other clubs manage to expertly avoid any difficulties with it whilst for the second time in four years we are now having to slash costs and cut right back supposedly in some desperate attempt to avoid sanctions.

 

Sheffield Wednesday, Derby, Birmingham etc all sold their Ground and Training Ground to their owners companies etc to comply. 

Do you really want to sell Ewood Park and lease it back or potentially never own our own ground or training ground again?

I would prefer a summer of hardship than trusting Venky's selling the ground and training ground. We'll end up in a horrible situation like Coventry or worse. A rising contract each year, £1m first year rising by 15% a year.

Within 5 years we'll be ground sharing with Chorley or Bolton

[JBiz]

Just now, JHRover said:

 

A transfer embargo now would make no difference to our present predicament. You can still sign players under an embargo - so we could still go with our begging bowl to Brighton for their loans and could even sign free agents provided their wages were within limits. So I'm struggling right now to understand how an embargo would be an issue when we are limiting ourselves so much to supposedly avoid an embargo.

What difference would an embargo have made to our business this summer?

 

I don’t know the rules enough to know - they seem vague at best.

Some parts I’ve gleaned are about an embargo; signing new contracts of current players to a maximum of 10k a week in the championship (or within their value / squad position) , registering new players or loaning players.

EFL guidance states that: "'An embargo prevents a club from strengthening its team or adding to its playing staff costs until such time as it has met its existing financial obligations and/or the club has rectified the relevant breach of EFL regulation."

https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/sport/19428390.reading-fc-transfer-embargo-breaching-ffp-rules/
 

This was from July, I seem to recall Hull, Derby and some other teams had similar issues - ours resolved around that time seemingly (as the Hilton loan LET report said I think)

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19399086.blackburn-rovers-transfer-embargo-explained-amid-hilton-hold-up/

So what difference has this made? Theorising, maybe stalled a load of our contract renewals, firstly due to uncertainty of covid and then the embargo earlier in the year? Put us in a position where we’re behind more clubs in wage offers this season?

Im not excusing why the Rao’s negligence put us in this position but FFP is impacting a lot of clubs negatively I think - could any other team in the championship (bar parachute/relegated) sign Harry Wilson for his initial price + 50k a week, and not destroy their wage structure?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

You just want to ignore the facts thats they FFP rules exist and they have to follow otherwise you end up in embargo's and transfer bans. Just look Bolton, Wigan, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday as cases when they down due to embargo and bans. 

Both Duffy and Hanley wanted out of Rovers after Lambert left the club. 

Do you want Rovers to keep losing money each an every season? and would you be in favour of us spending of 30 or 40 million to ensure we challenge for promotion and faces the consequences after like selling of best players, transfers bans and embargo if we didn't achieve this

Isn't Lenihan close to agree a new contract btw?

You could give Mowbray £40 million and he wouldn’t get us promoted.

[JHRover]

7 minutes ago, phili said:

Sheffield Wednesday, Derby, Birmingham etc all sold their Ground and Training Ground to their owners companies etc to comply. 

Do you really want to sell Ewood Park and lease it back or potentially never own our own ground or training ground again?

I would prefer a summer of hardship than trusting Venky's selling the ground and training ground. We'll end up in a horrible situation like Coventry or worse. A rising contract each year, £1m first year rising by 15% a year.

Within 5 years we'll be ground sharing with Chorley or Bolton

Did you miss the bit a few months ago about trying to sell Brockhall?

Ultimately I agree that it is not a pleasant prospect. But I also see that those clubs still have the exclusive use and benefit of those facilities so on a practical basis it hasn't made much difference to them. Their grounds were 'sold' to their owners so that rental/Coventry nightmare wouldn't happen unless Venkys sold it to a third party.

Those clubs haven't sold their stadia or training grounds for housing development like our mob were trying to do.

Why do we need a summer of hardship? We've had a few of those - summer 2016 and 2017 also so this is the third time in six years that it has happened. Why can't we just have six steady summers, maybe sell someone for a good fee like Arma but reinvest half into new assets like Brentford did?

 

[Ghost7]

This is working out perfectly to say: "We tried everything we could" - Blackburn Rovers, September 1, 2021

[phili]

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Why do we need a summer of hardship? We've had a few of those - summer 2016 and 2017 also so this is the third time in six years that it has happened. Why can't we just have six steady summers, maybe sell someone for a good fee like Arma but reinvest half into new assets like Brentford did?

 

Well Brentford sold a player for £20m+ each season and is the approach we should be taking. Buy X build him up for 12 months and then move on to the next target. I agree it is the approach we should be taking.

The problem is we are just not set up to do it. Brentford will sell and already have 10 players scouted to replace that player. Everything from owner down is geared to stats, analysis etc. We would need Venky's to suddenly understand football and get involved more for this approach to work.

[Gav]

1 minute ago, phili said:

Well Brentford sold a player for £20m+ each season and is the approach we should be taking. Buy X build him up for 12 months and then move on to the next target. I agree it is the approach we should be taking.

The problem is we are just not set up to do it. Brentford will sell and already have 10 players scouted to replace that player. Everything from owner down is geared to stats, analysis etc. We would need Venky's to suddenly understand football and get involved more for this approach to work.

We did take that approach, then Venkys arrived phili.

[JacknOry]

47 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

You just want to ignore the facts thats they FFP rules exist and they have to follow otherwise you end up in embargo's and transfer bans. Just look Bolton, Wigan, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday as cases when they down due to embargo and bans. 

Both Duffy and Hanley wanted out of Rovers after Lambert left the club. 

Do you want Rovers to keep losing money each an every season? and would you be in favour of us spending of 30 or 40 million to ensure we challenge for promotion and faces the consequences after like selling of best players, transfers bans and embargo if we didn't achieve this

Isn't Lenihan close to agree a new contract btw?

How would you or anyone know? Waggott apparently told someone at the game that it is down the line, while TM said there has been no discussions - which one do you believe, if either?

[tomphil]

Didn't Mowbray remove himself from that responsibility not long ago ?

I thought he'd passed the buck to his CEO in the LT on that score. Perhaps one doesn't know what the other is doing these days.