Summer transfer window 2021.

[Admiral Nelsen]

1 hour ago, rog of the rovers said:

Whilst its hardly a thrilling transfer window when you lose your best two players (Armstrong for money and Elliott to a loan return) I think its important to try and see the bigger picture.

Going into the season, some four weeks ago, mine and plenty of forum members fears where that we'd be relegated. The fear we'd be cut adrift and face a season like the one under Coyle in 16/17 with us battling from a home thumping by Norwich on the opening day, to the heartbreak at Griffin Park months later.

With signings like Gordon Greer, Tommie Hoban, Anthony Stokes, Wes Brown, Stephen Hendrie, Jack Byrne and Martin Samuelsen.......shudder 

This season has been surprisingly pleasing so far, we've put 8 points on the board, shown a togetherness, team spirit and most refreshingly of all have shown a willingness to dig in, scrap and stand up to the physical battles, which was missing from last seasons squad in abundance.

It took us 9 games to get 8 points in 16/17

The squad we have is good enough to better last seasons dismal performance of 15th place, but lets face it, we're more than a striker away from pushing for the playoffs! And with that said I'm happy to sit tight, let the FFP clock restart next season and take things from there.

We've bemoaned the fact Gallagher has played as a right winger for two seasons, now lets see him down the middle. BBD similarly, the challenge has been set to both of them to get 10-15 goals this season, which they should both be capable of.

Who of last seasons squad (bar the aforementioned Elliott and Armstrong) would anyone actually want at the club? Harwood-Bellis perhaps, but we were never going to be able to match the lure of Champions League football.

Williams, Mulgrew, Bennett, Downing and Evans were all too old and ready to drop down the divisions, or move to new leagues.

The collective cheers around Blackburn when Bell, Douglas and Trybull departed were palpable, whilst the youth fringe players also had proven that their futures were at pastures new, see Grayson, Lyons, White, Mols et al.

Lets see how good or bad Poveda, Khadra, Edun, Clarkson, van Hecke and Pickering are?

This board and other Rovers fans are also quick to criticise loaning in players from other clubs and not giving our own youth a chance...

Carter, Magloire, Cirino, McBride, Pike, Garrett, Annesley and Vale all should see time in and around the first team squad this season (bench time or playing) lets see how good they are.

Dack, Rankin-Costello and Johnson to return also.

Hopefully some of the cash from Armstrong can be spent on tying down Nyambe, BBD and Rothwell to extensions.

This season was always going to be a transitional year, its proved to be so far. 

We have a squad that should finish between 12th and 18th, which is where we are at present.

 

The highlighted bit is crucial for me. I agree that we'll be okay this year, and so if it turns out to be the case that we're able to spend a few more quid next summer as a result of tightening our belt this one, then fine.

If that isn't the strategy though, and we've just found ourselves in this position, then serious questions need to be asked about our squad management. Suppose we'll only know one way or another further down the track. 

[Ossydave]

1 hour ago, MarkBRFC said:

There's a few on here who seem to think Butterworth, McBride and Vale will just slot in and score goals.

Despite the fact they have 0 league starts between them.

Everyone starts somewhere. The art of scoring a goal remains the same - just get it in the net regardless of league starts.

I'm not for 1 minute saying I'm happy with the lack of an incoming striker though!

So many things are uncertain at the club, the only thing that IS nailed on is that we're now in a position where we must wee with the willy we've got as Souey once put it 😁

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

8/1 to be relegated at the start of the season now looks generous after this utter shit show 

I mean, it doesn't. We've already shown enough this season to be confident that we can stay up.

The board is being a little bit dramatic at the moment (not surprising).

I'm disappointed that we haven't done better, but don't think that signing a striker/forward was an absolute necessity. I hope that this means that Gallagher and Brereton will be used in more central roles and that the wingers that we have and have brought in will give us more creativity and pace in wide positions. 

I actually think our squad has decent balance and will look fairly strong when we get our injured players back. I think there's every chance that we are in the top half when January comes around and that might put us in a position to splash out a bit on a player that we really need.

[rigger]

11 hours ago, glen9mullan said:

I'd say on the face of it the squad much weaker.

Last season we had a 28 goal striker, loans which were exceptional in harwood-bellis and Elliott (both come with big reputations and expectations) both delivered with interest.

I think our summer dealings has us at least 5 places lower come the end of the season, if not more if we cannot plug the goals we've lost.

We have started the season well, but have done so the last couple of seasons. February onwards we press the self distruct button. I'm not sure this time we will get enough points on the board come january to prevent us being dragged into the relegation fight.

At the start of last season Armstrong was not a 28 goal striker. Fair play to him over the season he became one. Let's judge the players once they have played. Personnally I would not have bothered with any of the loans, but now that we have, I hope we can get the best out of them. I know our permanant youngsters might be miffed, but it is up to them to prove they are the better option. 

[darrenrover]

On 31/08/2021 at 10:46, RV Blue said:

Calling bullshit on that

Whatever, your prerogative mate.

[G Somerset Rover]

16 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

The highlighted bit is crucial for me. I agree that we'll be okay this year, and so if it turns out to be the case that we're able to spend a few more quid next summer as a result of tightening our belt this one, then fine.

If that isn't the strategy though, and we've just found ourselves in this position, then serious questions need to be asked about our squad management. Suppose we'll only know one way or another further down the track. 

Next summer is going to involve a ridiculous re-building job though, it won't be a case of spending just a few more quid. If we think we're shy of numbers, and quality now, then we're in for a treat this time next year with no Nyambe, Rothwell, Lenihan and potentially Brereton/Kaminski.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[roversfan99]

12 hours ago, JoeH said:

I'm disappointed we've not signed a striker, but I'd have been equally disappointed if we'd splurged millions on another hit and hope like Brereton or Gallagher.

If the clubs new model is to strike when the right value deal is available and avoid paying well over the odds for "potential" then I can get behind it.

The fact that Tayo Edun came out of nowhere and got done at a fairly small fee suggests that this is what we're looking to do. I don't mind us avoiding paying millions on players but the model needs to be consistent and it needs to have longevity.

If the idea is £750k at most per player, 20-24 age bracket, less than 10kpw wages - fine, but I don't want to see us completely back track on it and sign a 33 year old on 40kpw next summer.

If the benchmark for our transfer business is wasteful expensive "splurges" then we aren't going to get very far. Although to be fair, there is nowhere near enough evidence in a summer otherwise littered with loans again due to budget restraints that the above policy is indeed in place. Again, a 33 year old on 40kpw simply isnt going to happen.

The transfer policy shouldn't be so inflexible either, otherwise any remaining experience within the squad would just be stripped away.

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It doesn't really though..it's very disappointing we didn't get a CF and unacceptable really,but I still believe this is one of the best squads we have had at this level. 

You add a proper cf and a different manager and I reckon we could push for play offs 

I think the current squad is right up there with the very poorest that we have had in recent memory. What players within it warrant excitement or would likely have teams waiting to take them off our hands? I think the quality is sorely lacking.

[RoverKyle]

What worries me most about that transfer window is our apparent lack of pulling power when other Championship clubs are interested in a player we are supposedly after. How Obafemi has ended up at Swansea when it's been well documented we were looking to bring him in to replace Armstrong is beyond me. I'm sure there will be more examples that we aren't fully aware of. Reach to WBA (to largely sit on their bench) is another.

I get that we're trying to cut our cloth accordingly due to FFP, but to leave ourselves a striker short is really poor. We also shouldn't have been waiting until the final day to get something sorted as well. 

[tomphil]

How many loans will we need next season ?

Steve and Tony are creating room in the budgets for their own contract extensions

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

9 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I mean, it doesn't. We've already shown enough this season to be confident that we can stay up.

The board is being a little bit dramatic at the moment (not surprising).

I'm disappointed that we haven't done better, but don't think that signing a striker/forward was an absolute necessity. I hope that this means that Gallagher and Brereton will be used in more central roles and that the wingers that we have and have brought in will give us more creativity and pace in wide positions. 

I actually think our squad has decent balance and will look fairly strong when we get our injured players back. I think there's every chance that we are in the top half when January comes around and that might put us in a position to splash out a bit on a player that we really need.

I will give you the good start, far better than we could have dreamt of. However, what happens when we get a few injuries? We have absolutely no depth.

And - you don't think replacing 54% of our goals last season was an absolutely necessity? You also think Mowbray will change from his insistence of playing our £12m strike force on the wing? 

The only way I can see us being top 10 is Mowbray's hand is forced and he HAS to play Gallagher down the middle and we have a huge slice of luck and Ayala doesn't get injured all season - highly unlikely given his history. 

In reality, if we can go on the mother of all death spirals of 2 wins in 17 last year, when we had a 28 goal striker and a mercurial talent that is now starting for Liverpool, how do you expect us to BETTER that this year when we've lost 12 players, 54% of our goals, brought in a few kids on loan and a chap from Lincoln?

[blue_n_white99]

"on a journey", "building for the future" "we've got a list of 6 strikers" blah, blah, blah

The management have shown absolutely zero ambition to progress, build or move forward. This can easily become a self fulfilling prophecy, players at the club see the lack of ambition, lack of planning and wonder why they are hanging around this shit show. Similarly other potential targets look at Rovers as a dysfunctional shower. At this point we are only attractive to those who aren't wanted anywhere else.

Hang your heads in shame TM, Maggot and Venkys

[Miller11]

I’m definitely more disappointed at the loans we have brought in than the failure to bring in another forward.

Poveda and Khadra just look like two interchangeable, nondescript attacking players who will force Dolan down the pecking order and stop Rankin-Costello being picked in his actual position.

Van Hecke will push Wharton and Carter down and finish Magloire’s Rovers career, and may very well lead to a change in system. Hearing “he can play right back” fills me with dread.

Clarkson is the slightly romantic one as he is a Rovers fan, but John Buckley is a Rovers player who will see less game time due to this signing.

The odd loan to help push you on a level is fine. Filling your team out with (almost) as many as possible is counter productive. Any benefit to us is minimal and short term, the parent clubs will benefit a lot more.

And if we had to bring in this lot, why haven’t we loaned some of ours out? Oh, except Chapman, who was as stupid to sign a new deal here as we were to offer one. I’ve heard the “sell him on for a fee” argument, but seriously, what do people think he will be worth in January when he is free in Summer? Less than the extension cost us I’d wager.

For a very slight bit of balance, Edun looks to have a good pedigree and attitude and is a good age. Smart move strengthening a position we were light in for minimal outlay on a long term deal. The sort of deals we need to be making in the current climate.

Anyway, pressure is on Gallagher and Brereton to step up now. Although god only knows where they or anyone else will line up going forward.

 

[Admiral Nelsen]

5 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Next summer is going to involve a ridiculous re-building job though, it won't be a case of spending just a few more quid. If we think we're shy of numbers, and quality now, then we're in for a treat this time next year with no Nyambe, Rothwell, Lenihan and potentially Brereton/Kaminski.

 

I agree if it turns out that all/most the out-of-contract players leave. If it turns out that Lenihan, Brereton & possibly even Nyambe sign new deals then the rebuild doesn't need to be that dramatic.

 

Agree that there are reasons for pessimism on this front by the way, I'm just agreeing that it is possible that our poor window could be better justified if it was a part of a longer term strategy which means we can use our resources better over the longer term. Probably won't turn out that way of course. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If the benchmark for our transfer business is wasteful expensive "splurges" then we aren't going to get very far. Although to be fair, there is nowhere near enough evidence in a summer otherwise littered with loans again due to budget restraints that the above policy is indeed in place. Again, a 33 year old on 40kpw simply isnt going to happen.

The transfer policy shouldn't be so inflexible either, otherwise any remaining experience within the squad would just be stripped away.

I think the current squad is right up there with the very poorest that we have had in recent memory. What players within it warrant excitement or would likely have teams waiting to take them off our hands? I think the quality is sorely lacking.

You have a short memory. We have a solid defence for the first time since I don't know when, probably when Duffy was here and playing well. Was that with Hanley? Nyambe is a solid right back, who hopefully will push on this season and improve his offensive game. We have 2 young left backs, who importantly are our own players. Lenihan and Ayala possibly the best CB pairing since we were relegated. A very good and reliable keeper. Our Achilles heel has been out defence for years. 

Plenty of talent and potential in midfield, hopefully they push on. 

Issues upfront and inexcusable we didn't sign a CF, but we have some exciting looking wingers for the first time in ages and it's now or never for Gallagher as a CF. He scored goals for us there before in a dreadful team. 

Add in the much lauded youth players we have and I wouldn't say the squad is worth panicking about. Obviously the contract situation is worth worrying about. 

[Paul Mellelieu]

13 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I mean, it doesn't. We've already shown enough this season to be confident that we can stay up.

The board is being a little bit dramatic at the moment (not surprising).

I'm disappointed that we haven't done better, but don't think that signing a striker/forward was an absolute necessity. I hope that this means that Gallagher and Brereton will be used in more central roles and that the wingers that we have and have brought in will give us more creativity and pace in wide positions. 

I actually think our squad has decent balance and will look fairly strong when we get our injured players back. I think there's every chance that we are in the top half when January comes around and that might put us in a position to splash out a bit on a player that we really need.

...but.... they said we had a list to chose from.

[rigger]

3 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

See the brereton Chile thing has stung us on the ass, they are now taking us to fifa as we won’t release him which could mean that we lose him for a number of games , just as well we brought that striker in………

 

ps I never jumped in the Chile love in, found it a bit cringe 

Surely it is the EFL who would have to be charged, as they made the ruling.

[JHRover]

Wasn't long ago we were pointing at Wigan and Bolton as examples of local clubs that we could end up like if Venkys walked away. Now they are spending more than us in the division below and getting more on watching.

Wasn't long ago we were being told that we were doing things differently to the past and were building slowly but sustainably, ensuring the club had assets to fall back on. That now looks like a sick joke when you consider what we have left under rapidly expiring contracts and complete dependence on cheap loans to fill out the squad.

Wasn't long ago Mowbray was talking about taking a few years to get us into shape for promotion to the Prem. Now I think most of us would be relieved if we limped our way to survival and even the most optimistic have set their ambitions at 'mid table'.

Wasn't long ago we were being told that our new, steady, sensible, sustainable approach was the right thing to do to put us in good shape for the future and protect the club from the perils of FFP, whilst all those other silly clubs spending big money would suffer the consequences of sanctions. Here were are having been under an embargo and then since being released from that embargo have effectively been under a self-imposed embargo resulting in an inability to address glaring issues in the squad.

Ever get the feeling that you've been had hook, line and sinker?

The only folks to profit from the last 3 years appear to be Mowbray, Waggott, the staff and favoured players lavished with lucrative contracts.

The club and fans certainly don't have much to show for it. Unless dire football and bottom half Championship is your thing.

[Mercer]

If I was a 'prominent' Rovers' player with just 12 months remaining on my contract, I would simply look at what has happened at the club in recent times including this transfer window and say to myself 'why the hell do I want to stay here'.  I think getting them to sign new contracts is highly unlikely and what we realise in fees will be minimal. 

I think our outlook is terrifying and goodness knows what our team will look like 12 months on.  Sadly, unless, IMO, insanity prevails, Waggott and Mowbray will be out of it without a care in the world other than keeping track on their vastly enhanced bank accounts following their Rovers' employment. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Mercer

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, Miller11 said:

I’m definitely more disappointed at the loans we have brought in than the failure to bring in another forward.

Poveda and Khadra just look like two interchangeable, nondescript attacking players who will force Dolan down the pecking order and stop Rankin-Costello being picked in his actual position.

Van Hecke will push Wharton and Carter down and finish Magloire’s Rovers career, and may very well lead to a change in system. Hearing “he can play right back” fills me with dread.

Clarkson is the slightly romantic one as he is a Rovers fan, but John Buckley is a Rovers player who will see less game time due to this signing.

The odd loan to help push you on a level is fine. Filling your team out with (almost) as many as possible is counter productive. Any benefit to us is minimal and short term, the parent clubs will benefit a lot more.

And if we had to bring in this lot, why haven’t we loaned some of ours out? Oh, except Chapman, who was as stupid to sign a new deal here as we were to offer one. I’ve heard the “sell him on for a fee” argument, but seriously, what do people think he will be worth in January when he is free in Summer? Less than the extension cost us I’d wager.

For a very slight bit of balance, Edun looks to have a good pedigree and attitude and is a good age. Smart move strengthening a position we were light in for minimal outlay on a long term deal. The sort of deals we need to be making in the current climate.

Anyway, pressure is on Gallagher and Brereton to step up now. Although god only knows where they or anyone else will line up going forward.

 

To be fair, if we didn't have the 4 loanees, we would struggle to name a full squad in the next game.

Magloire is nowhere near good enough and should have been let go permanently, we have been caught short in defence in recent years numerous times so we did need a centre back, especially with Ayala made of glass and Wharton not back anytime soon. If anything, that is good use of the loan market potentially.

I do have a frustration over loaning both Khadra and Poveda. I have reservations about Dolan and like one or two others, too much reliance on him would be counter productive because at this stage, I feel like he is not up to the standard required. Dolan would not make the match day squad of a Premier League club, and not everything is about long term. Buckley was really good on the opening day and has been really ineffective since, if the choice is solely rely on Buckley or bring in another player to compete with him, it has to be the latter, although at that point you are just bringing in loanees to make the numbers up based on budgetary reasons which never bodes well.

I would agree that we haven't been pro-active enough in loaning out our own prospects. Ones like Butterworth will be needed on the fringes due to our inability to bring forwards in, but ones like McBride, Cirino, Pike, Garrett, Vale etc seem miles off and won't play either way.

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

You have a short memory. We have a solid defence for the first time since I don't know when, probably when Duffy was here and playing well. Was that with Hanley? Nyambe is a solid right back, who hopefully will push on this season and improve his offensive game. We have 2 young left backs, who importantly are our own players. Lenihan and Ayala possibly the best CB pairing since we were relegated. A very good and reliable keeper. Our Achilles heel has been out defence for years. 

Plenty of talent and potential in midfield, hopefully they push on. 

Issues upfront and inexcusable we didn't sign a CF, but we have some exciting looking wingers for the first time in ages and it's now or never for Gallagher as a CF. He scored goals for us there before in a dreadful team. 

Add in the much lauded youth players we have and I wouldn't say the squad is worth panicking about. Obviously the contract situation is worth worrying about. 

Too much of it is unknown potential and assumptions at this stage for me personally not to consider it as a rather poor squad. 

I don't doubt that we have had some terrible squads over the years. You talk about the team that Gallagher scored goals in, that side had far more going forward than this current one does, notably with Graham and also Conway who was having some what of an Indian summer, as well as Emnes who even as a very frustrating player had more of a track record than Poveda/Khadra/Butterworth, and then we had Joao and Marshall for half a season each. We also had some experience in there.

I agree that our defence is the strongest point at the moment, the key part of it is a second away from an injury and even with the 2 at the back heading everything away, we have yet to keep a clean sheet.

Would you say that any of our players are worth 5m or over?

[JBiz]

47 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I mean, it doesn't. We've already shown enough this season to be confident that we can stay up.

The board is being a little bit dramatic at the moment (not surprising).

I'm disappointed that we haven't done better, but don't think that signing a striker/forward was an absolute necessity. I hope that this means that Gallagher and Brereton will be used in more central roles and that the wingers that we have and have brought in will give us more creativity and pace in wide positions. 

I actually think our squad has decent balance and will look fairly strong when we get our injured players back. I think there's every chance that we are in the top half when January comes around and that might put us in a position to splash out a bit on a player that we really need.

I agree

Throw a few contract renewals and I think we’re in a far better position than many other think.

[MarkBRFC]

21 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You have a short memory. We have a solid defence for the first time since I don't know when, probably when Duffy was here and playing well. Was that with Hanley? Nyambe is a solid right back, who hopefully will push on this season and improve his offensive game. We have 2 young left backs, who importantly are our own players. Lenihan and Ayala possibly the best CB pairing since we were relegated. A very good and reliable keeper. Our Achilles heel has been out defence for years. 

Plenty of talent and potential in midfield, hopefully they push on. 

Issues upfront and inexcusable we didn't sign a CF, but we have some exciting looking wingers for the first time in ages and it's now or never for Gallagher as a CF. He scored goals for us there before in a dreadful team. 

Add in the much lauded youth players we have and I wouldn't say the squad is worth panicking about. Obviously the contract situation is worth worrying about. 

We haven't kept a clean sheet yet.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

1 hour ago, Vilesinner said:

Personally I can't wait to see Butterworth and some of our other U23s given a chance. With the limitations I didn't have much faith in Tony bringing in a decent striker.

Butterworth is the one that excites me the most - his cameos from the bench have been quite promising - somewhat backing up the high opinion of backroom staff.

 

[G Somerset Rover]

10 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I agree

Throw a few contract renewals and I think we’re in a far better position than many other think.

Why would those 4 sign new deals here? They'd be crazy to, unless we suddenly offer them better terms than the competition. Which we won't.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Too much of it is unknown potential and assumptions at this stage for me personally not to consider it as a rather poor squad. 

 

I think the problem Rovers have - is we don't have the finances to buy a sure thing - so even if we had purchased a striker, it would have been one that didn't come with a guarantee of goals, or guarantee to stay fit.

So these youngsters we have brought in on loan - will either fly (aka Elliot) or bomb (Branthwaite) - but to be fair recent loans have been fairly good.

[Irish_Rover]

I felt we definitely needed a forward to replace Armstrong as I just can't see Gallagher or Brereton matching his 30 goal tally. They have started the season well and hopefully the loans that have come in means they will be used up top as opposed to the wings, but frankly who knows with the muppet in charge. Don't think any of us can rule out Poveda starting as the false 9 with our starting strikers back out on the wings, as utterly preposterous as it sounds!

Now that we haven't brought in that forward, I would hope they go on an absolute splurge of contracts. They have the 15/18mil whatever it is, throw the extra bit at Rothwell and Nyambe to convince them to sign. Get longer contracts for Brereton, Kaminski and Lenihan. Tie them down so we aren't in the same position as we were with Armstrong and praying for someone to take him off our hands before he leaves on a free.

Its mind-numbingly simple and you think it would be the first thing they would look at, but again logic and common sense just seems to be totally out the window with the shower in charge. Oh for a competent CEO that at least would actually see the benefit of retaining your assets!

Edited September 1, 2021 by Irish_Rover