Summer transfer window 2021.

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Bennett wouldnt have been om peanuts at all.If you want to believe that Ryan Nyambe wouldnt have been happy with the money Bennett was on ,then thats up to you.

You will have noticed we COULDNT spend the Armstrong money due to ffp.

Like i said he has brought in absolutely loads of players in his time here.Would you have me believe he doesnt speak to the players about their contract situation?

He brought in 12 players last season 

 

I don't think Nyambe would be happy to be tied down to a long term deal on what Bennett was on, no. I'm sure his agent thought the same. I would say Bennett was upper mid level in terms of wages. Didn't he sign an extension around when we went down or were in League 1? 

Exactly, we couldn't spend it, so why are you saying he should have got rid of those who wouldn't sign and replace them like it's football manager on the PC? 

Talking about contracts and being the one who negotiates them is night and day. I do contracts at work. I know this. It's not simple and Mowbray isn't the one who sits down to iron out and finalise them. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[Bigdoggsteel]

10 minutes ago, WIR Second Coming said:

Aye, so who does provide oversight on these contracts, as part of the fiduciary duty required in running a business in the UK (it's a legal requirement ya know)?

Cheston possibly? To be honest I don't know who negotiates and finalises them with players agents, but I know it isn't Mowbray. 

[islander200]

14 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

Exactly, we couldn't spend it, so why are you saying he should have got rid of those who wouldn't sign and replace them like it's football manager on the PC? 

 

Bennett was on a minimum of 10k a week.Nyambe would have been happy with that 2 years ago conidering he is on a reported 4k a week.

We couldnt spend it this summer!I have already said this summer thr budget cut and leaving players get into their last year is amateur.

The previous summer when they had 2 years left is a different story.We brought 12 players in.They should have been sold then if they werent going to be signing new deals.

Isnt it standard practice for clubs to sell players who wont sign new deal

I couldnt care less if you work with contracts or not, its a totally different ball game in football.And as for you football manager comment, ridiculous of course trading could have been done the previous summer 12 players walked in the door!

Edited October 28, 2021 by islander200

[islander200]

14 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Cheston possibly? To be honest I don't know who negotiates and finalises them with players agents, but I know it isn't Mowbray. 

No but the manager gives recommendations on a players worth and Value.Cheston is a number cruncher not a footballing person.

The manager practically runs the club here and has been the case throughout the venky era

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Bennett was on a minimum of 10k a week.Nyambe would have been happy with that 2 years ago conidering he is on a reported 4k a week.

We couldnt spend it this summer!I have already said this summer thr budget cut and leaving players get into their last year is amateur.

The previous summer when they had 2 years left is a different story.We brought 12 players in.They should have been sold then if they werent going to be signing new deals.

Isnt it standard practice for clubs to sell players who wont sign new deal

I couldnt care less if you work with contracts or not, its a totally different ball game in football.And as for you football manager comment, ridiculous of course trading could have been done the previous summer 12 players walked in the door!

You have no clue Nyambe would have been happy with that on a long term deal. He is highly rated in some quarters and I'm sure his agent is telling him that. You also don't know what Bennett was on. Also for all we know he was offered a deal back then and his agent advised against accepting it, as he is continuing to do. Should Mowbray bump the figures up from his own pocket? Stop being silly. Mowbray gets a transfer budget, he doesn't need to work out potential current players contracts from this and do these calculations on his excel spreadsheet. 

We couldn't spend it this summer, which is part of a 3 year cycle, which included the previous 2. There is no guarantee he would have had any money to spend if he sold Nyambe, Lenihan and Rothwell, do you understand this? The team would be considerably weaker and fans would have been in uproar. 

You have actually stopped making sense on this. Mowbray doesn't negotiate contracts. Discussions have been taking place with players about contracts. You seem to think real life is like Football manager. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, islander200 said:

No but the manager gives recommendations on a players worth and Value.Cheston is a number cruncher not a footballing person.

The manager practically runs the club here and has been the case throughout the venky era

Ok, you really don't understand how negotiating player contracts work. I would advise reading up on it more before coming on vocally claiming to know the ins and outs 

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You have no clue Nyambe would have been happy with that on a long term deal. He is highly rated in some quarters and I'm sure his agent is telling him that. You also don't know what Bennett was on. Also for all we know he was offered a deal back then and his agent advised against accepting it, as he is continuing to do. Should Mowbray bump the figures up from his own pocket? Stop being silly. Mowbray gets a transfer budget, he doesn't need to work out potential current players contracts from this and do these calculations on his excel spreadsheet. 

We couldn't spend it this summer, which is part of a 3 year cycle, which included the previous 2. There is no guarantee he would have had any money to spend if he sold Nyambe, Lenihan and Rothwell, do you understand this? The team would be considerably weaker and fans would have been in uproar. 

You have actually stopped making sense on this. Mowbray doesn't negotiate contracts. Discussions have been taking place with players about contracts. You seem to think real life is like Football manager. 

So he spent 2 seasons on 6k less a week than he is currently on and he is happy with that?

How is it football manager thinking to replace players who have no interest in signing new deals?Other clubs sell the player more often than not in similar circumstance.

There is no guarantee he wouldnt have seen any money from those deals?So why was he allowed to bring Kaminski,Pears,The greek,Pickering on permanent deals and use the loan allocations and resign Downing without bringing in any money?

[islander200]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ok, you really don't understand how negotiating player contracts work. I would advise reading up on it more before coming on vocally claiming to know the ins and outs 

What you mean? You think it isnt up to the manager who gets offered a new deal or doesnt?He has no say in it.?

Listen Mowbray as late as last season was talking in the media about his plan...our journey ..you would have me believe at that time he wasnt aware of the contract situation and the players relutance to sign new deals.

He brought 12 players in last summer without selling anyone so your opinion that deals couldnt have been done is horseshit.

Lenihen could have been given Ayalas deal, or Lenihen could have been sold to pay for Ayalas deal.

I agree overall blame lays with the owners but i do not agree that Mowbray is exempt from blame and had no part to play in the positon we find ourselves in regarding the contracts

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, islander200 said:

So he spent 2 seasons on 6k less a week than he is currently on and he is happy with that?

How is it football manager thinking to replace players who have no interest in signing new deals?Other clubs sell the player more often than not in similar circumstance.

There is no guarantee he wouldnt have seen any money from those deals?So why was he allowed to bring Kaminski,Pears,The greek,Pickering on permanent deals and use the loan allocations and resign Downing without bringing in any money?

Would you not be happy on £4,000 a week? I'll even go along with your figures being correct and it still means he would have 2 years left to run on less than he would get if he leaves on a free when his contract is up. Far less when you factor in a sign on fee. 

They were all brought in for frees or low fees. You sell Lenihan, Nyambe and Rothwell, you bring in say £8 million, they might have given him £2 million to reinvest , maybe less. It's not rocket science when it comes to having your best possible team out there from the managers point of view. Sorting out contracts is the role of someone , possibly in the finance department, I don't know how they are set up behind the scenes, but it isn't the manager. He has miniscule to no input on the functional and practical side of sorting contracts with agents. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 minutes ago, islander200 said:

What you mean? You think it isnt up to the manager who gets offered a new deal or doesnt?He has no say in it.?

Listen Mowbray as late as last season was talking in the media about his plan...our journey ..you would have me believe at that time he wasnt aware of the contract situation and the players relutance to sign new deals.

He brought 12 players in last summer without selling anyone so your opinion that deals couldnt have been done is horseshit.

Lenihen could have been given Ayalas deal, or Lenihen could have been sold to pay for Ayalas deal.

I agree overall blame lays with the owners but i do not agree that Mowbray is exempt from blame and had no part to play in the positon we find ourselves in regarding the contracts

 

Yes of course it's up to him who gets new deals. Don't confuse that with negotiating the deals. 

Now you have moved onto whether those 12 signings were good or not. Different issue. You are implying he said not to sign those out of contracts to deals, he's banging on about this for ages. Actually sorting this is above his head and as such the blame lies there. Or maybe the players just don't want to sign no matter what. I don't know and you don't know.  

Do you not see the massive flaw with your Ayala/Lenihan solution? We wouldn't have one of them now. 

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, islander200 said:

What you mean? You think it isnt up to the manager who gets offered a new deal or doesnt?He has no say in it.?

Listen Mowbray as late as last season was talking in the media about his plan...our journey ..you would have me believe at that time he wasnt aware of the contract situation and the players relutance to sign new deals.

He brought 12 players in last summer without selling anyone so your opinion that deals couldnt have been done is horseshit.

Lenihen could have been given Ayalas deal, or Lenihen could have been sold to pay for Ayalas deal.

I agree overall blame lays with the owners but i do not agree that Mowbray is exempt from blame and had no part to play in the positon we find ourselves in regarding the contracts

 

I mean what you said below is incorrect. HR in conjunction with finance sort contracts. Not football people. 

"No but the manager gives recommendations on a players worth and Value. Cheston is a number cruncher not a footballing person."

The manager says he wants X player. The club tries to sort the financials. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[islander200]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Yes of course it's up to him who gets new deals. Don't confuse that with negotiating the deals. 

Now you have moved onto whether those 12 signings were good or not. Different issue. You are implying he said not to sign those out of contracts to deals, he's banging on about this for ages. Actually sorting this is above his head and as such the blame lies there. Or maybe the players just don't want to sign no matter what. I don't know and you don't know.  

 

Agreed i dont know.But when i look at the amount of money wasted and some of the players who did get new deals then yes i do think Mowbray has had his part to play.Iv said numerous times i know its not Mowbray negotiating the deals etc.But like was it the venkys who told Mowbray he had to hand out extensions to players who were no longer part of his plans in the first covid break.

I know you will most likely respond that it was small fry, but how many small fry deals have been done under his watch?Add them all together and its a decent player signed or renewed contract for a valuable player.

Its him who said he had a plan.

And on Nyambe yeah he has potential and i will watch with interest who his next club will be and how much he will be paid.Im willing to bet with you now he will get a deal around the 10k a week mark.

 

[islander200]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I mean what you said below is incorrect. HR in conjunction with finance sort contracts. Not football people. 

"No but the manager gives recommendations on a players worth and Value. Cheston is a number cruncher not a footballing person."

 

Yes they sort the contracts out, they do the deal and see if its Viable but in football the manager of the team recommends which players are kept etc and gives his opinion of how valuable they are to the team.Or are you saying It goes over the managers head and they hsve no say in it at all?

On Nyambe im unconvinced the manager rates him that highly 

In my first reply to you i said i know he doesnt do the negotiations

Edited October 28, 2021 by islander200

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Agreed i dont know.But when i look at the amount of money wasted and some of the players who did get new deals then yes i do think Mowbray has had his part to play.Iv said numerous times i know its not Mowbray negotiating the deals etc.But like was it the venkys who told Mowbray he had to hand out extensions to players who were no longer part of his plans in the first covid break.

I know you will most likely respond that it was small fry, but how many small fry deals have been done under his watch?Add them all together and its a decent player signed or renewed contract for a valuable player.

Its him who said he had a plan.

And on Nyambe yeah he has potential and i will watch with interest who his next club will be and how much he will be paid.Im willing to bet with you now he will get a deal around the 10k a week mark.

 

He will get more than that I'd say. I think Mowbray was operating within the budget he was given, the contract sorting is outside of that and up to someone else. 

We have a wage cap. It's not as simple as Mowbray says don't sign Pears and give the extra money to Lenihan. 

At the end of the day we don't know why they won't sign. Is it just financial, or is it for footballing reasons 

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Yes they sort the contracts out, they do the deal and see if its Viable but in football the manager of the team recommends which players are kept etc and gives his opinion of how valuable they are to the team.Or are you saying It goes over the managers head and they hsve no say in it at all?

On Nyambe im unconvinced the manager rates him that highly 

How valuable Mowbray says they are is irrelevant when we have a wage structure/cap. I'm sure he wants to sign our best players to longer deals, or did anyway when he knew he would be here. Now he is probably less bothered as he might not be here and he has his own next contract to think about. 

It all comes down to deeper issues within the club and how things are done 

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He will get more than that I'd say. I think Mowbray was operating within the budget he was given, the contract sorting is outside of that and up to someone else. 

We have a wage cap. It's not as simple as Mowbray says don't sign Pears and give the extra money to Lenihan. 

At the end of the day we don't know why they won't sign. Is it just financial, or is it for footballing reasons 

Everyone in the league is making cut backs.Il be very surprised if Nyambe gets much more than 10k a week.

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

How valuable Mowbray says they are is irrelevant when we have a wage structure/cap. I'm sure he wants to sign our best players to longer deals, or did anyway when he knew he would be here. Now he is probably less bothered as he might not be here and he has his own next contract to think about. 

It all comes down to deeper issues within the club and how things are done 

Nyambe wouldnt be after money that is higher than our wage ceiling tho.

And two years ago you think there would have been clubs willing to give Rothwell 20k a week?

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Nyambe wouldnt be after money that is higher than our wage ceiling tho.

And two years ago you think there would have been clubs willing to give Rothwell 20k a week?

No, but he must want more than we are offering. I would be very interested to know where the impasse is at with each of the 3 mentioned. 

I don't get the 2nd line, sorry? 

[islander200]

12 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

No, but he must want more than we are offering. I would be very interested to know where the impasse is at with each of the 3 mentioned. 

I don't get the 2nd line, sorry? 

He wouldnt have had the interest he has now 2 years ago and it most likely wouldnt have taken going over our wage ceiling to resign him.

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, islander200 said:

He wouldnt have had the interest he has now 2 years ago and it most likely wouldnt have taken going over our wage ceiling to resign him.

No, but we can't just offer every player a wage at the top of the ceiling. It depends on what they are delivering and Rothwell is inconsistency personified. Although he is getting better I think. As many players do when looking for a new deal..... 

[islander200]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

No, but we can't just offer every player a wage at the top of the ceiling. It depends on what they are delivering and Rothwell is inconsistency personified. Although he is getting better I think. As many players do when looking for a new deal..... 

I agree on that point, he didnt warrant a big deal.

Similar with Lenihen, he could find himself out of the team if Wharton progresses and Ayala stays fit as he hasnt kicked on,stats suggest we get better results with him in the team but as an individual he has been pretty poor imo.

My anger isnt over the fact we havent signed them up but they should have been sold.Something going into recruitment is better than nothing and we would havd seen some of any fees brought in last summer.

We left it too late to do anything about it,at best we will get small fees in january 

Edited October 28, 2021 by islander200

[Sparks Rover]

4 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 He doesn't deal with agents as far as I understand , when it comes to getting down to the contracts proper. 

Yes he does, he sits with players and agents and discusses budget, how much they can offer, cast iron he certainly does.  Him and waggot are the ones in charge, yes the accountant does the button pressing but the contracts and amounts are discussed with player/agent with Mowbray and Maggot...

I know of 2 players in the last 18 months who have confirmed this. One signed, the other didn't.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Sparks Rover

[islander200]

25 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yes he does, he sits with players and agents and discusses budget, how much they can offer, cast iron he certainly does.  Him and waggot are the ones in charge, yes the accountant does the button pressing but the contracts and amounts are discussed with player/agent with Mowbray and Maggot...

I know of 2 players in the last 18 months who have confirmed this. One signed, the other didn't.

Wasting your breath.He wont believe you .

Didnt you know he deals with contracts in his line of work whilst we spend our time playing football manager

[islander200]

33 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yes he does, he sits with players and agents and discusses budget, how much they can offer, cast iron he certainly does.  Him and waggot are the ones in charge, yes the accountant does the button pressing but the contracts and amounts are discussed with player/agent with Mowbray and Maggot...

I know of 2 players in the last 18 months who have confirmed this. One signed, the other didn't.

In fact im sure he has even spoken about this in the media.

One of the many times he spoke of his shock over players and agents demands

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, islander200 said:

Nyambe wouldnt be after money that is higher than our wage ceiling tho.

And two years ago you think there would have been clubs willing to give Rothwell 20k a week?

I would be offering Nyambe a contract around 8 to 10k a week and Rothwell around 12k a week. If they won't accept those terms then we need to sell them in January and bring in the players we need.

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I mean what you said below is incorrect. HR in conjunction with finance sort contracts. Not football people. 

"No but the manager gives recommendations on a players worth and Value. Cheston is a number cruncher not a footballing person."

The manager says he wants X player. The club tries to sort the financials. 

Mowbray has said he doesn't get involved in the players contract terms negotiations but he does speak to the players over their role at the club. 

I believe its Waggott, Venus and Cheston in the contract talks with the player's agent

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 Bennett would have been on peanuts,

He was one of the highest paid players at the club during his time here