Summer transfer window 2021.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Ulrich said:

I can image as long as he likes you and you do what he asks he treats you well, but that's not what a manager is there to do. I completely agree that a large number of our players need a manager that pushes them, makes them graft etc etc and TM clearly doesn't as you say. People often don't like being told to do more, work harder and so having a laxadaisy gaffer probably suits the modern player.

I'm now quite concerned thinking about AA signing a new deal, as one thing I noticed from the players salaries was certain ones are over paid.  IE the ones he likes and has signed, given his love for AA and his goals, I wonder what sort of salary TM would offer him? I can't remember Dacks (my phone always changes his name to sacks lol) but it must be pretty high for us these days and AA has generated more interest than Dack. Would TM offer him 25-30k to sign, decimating our budget in the process? Course the Muppet would, but can we actually afford that in relation to other areas of the team? Bennett 10k etc etc, his buddies get looked after for sure. I am convinced TM is going to royally shaft us this summer and we will suffer badly for his incompetence.

I hope I am wrong.

As far as i reckon they just know they aren't going to get the money bid they want for him. Taking into account Newcastles whopping 40% so the only other option is to try and tempt him to sign another contract.

According to the local paper when he signed he was put on c15k pwk and they had to give him 4 years, to balance out he was dropping from 20 grand at Newcastle. So it'll have to be a whopping wage to get him on another contract. He'll probably want a less than massive get out clause as well.

These lot paid Rhodes about 40k per week by the end of his time here and they didn't end up making a huge profit on his fee either. Now we might have to sell another good player in order to put that towards a new AA deal.

It's a fook up really having to potentially do that when you consider the amount Mowbray has wasted. Especially in recent times on ones who've contributed fack all,  Downing springs to mind. Then a fee for Pears etc, i'm very uneasy with all this old pals stuff again.

It is NOT in the best interests of the club imo.

[Torgeir]

18 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

I personally am completely against the Taylor Hardwood Bellis, why are we openly offering to produce someone else's player it's absolutely pathetic.

THB isn't going to help us get promoted or stay up.

Let's play our own academy players and develop them than develop some pathetic clubs youth academy.

 

Harsh. He's a really good prospect trying to make a name for himself, and always gave it his all when he played for us. I'd gladly have him back, and only in an ideal world we would produce all the talent ourselves.

[tomphil]

I'd have THB back in a heartbeat to be honest as he should be better equipped now having got games under his belt last season.

I get the issue of wanting to play our own first but we are still light on quality in that area. Get Wharton fit and get him competing for a place again with THB and take it from there. Signing a decent CB with some champ experience would be preferable but highly unlikely. Given the finances and it's proved beyond this managers capabilities anyway.

If we had a pool of good CH's it would only mean they end up getting rotated anyway. We've seen it before and it's piss boilingly stupid when you are trying to create a solid consistent back line.

Good defenders should be able to cope with all shapes and sizes/styles of opposition.  That's how good players are made and what does it say to the player when the manager drops him for different opposition ?

Hardly a confidence builder or any good for their development.

Edited May 23, 2021 by tomphil

[Fraserkirky]

A 4-4-2 with us battering balls at Brereton and Gallagher is one school of thought.

[Bigdoggsteel]

24 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

A 4-4-2 with us battering balls at Brereton and Gallagher is one school of thought.

I would be amazed if Pep Mowbray played 4-4-2 

[47er]

If we play 4-4-2,( and personally I wish we would--at least everyone knows what they are meant to do in that set-up) we need a tall striker who can knock it down for Armstrong to pounce and who can score 10-15 goals himself.

We also need genuine wide players not made-up ones.

That means admitting we've wasted £12M on 2 players who don't fit and spending a fair amount on a new striker so its not going to happen.

[JohnGo]

7 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

I personally am completely against the Taylor Hardwood Bellis, why are we openly offering to produce someone else's player it's absolutely pathetic.

THB isn't going to help us get promoted or stay up.

Let's play our own academy players and develop them than develop some pathetic clubs youth academy.

 

He’s a class act. If we want promotion why not take him. The academy boys will have to step up to the mark and displace him. No one’s given a easy ride.

[JacknOry]

48 minutes ago, JohnGo said:

He’s a class act. If we want promotion why not take him. The academy boys will have to step up to the mark and displace him. No one’s given a easy ride.

If you want promotion, you get in a manager able to deliver it. Doesn't matter who we loan in, we aint getting promotion under this guy. 

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

I personally am completely against the Taylor Hardwood Bellis, why are we openly offering to produce someone else's player it's absolutely pathetic.

THB isn't going to help us get promoted or stay up.

Let's play our own academy players and develop them than develop some pathetic clubs youth academy.

 

Harwood-Bellis performed very well last season for us and can't believe you wouldn't want him. We have Ayala who is injury prone and will probably not be available for most of the season. You could well end up with THB and Carter in defence next season if Lenihan gets injury. Why not get him back on a loan until January when Wharton should be back. 

I was in favour of Mowbray playing Pike, McBride, Burns, Whitehall in some of the last few games last season. 

Next season we will have Nyambe, Lenihan, Wharton, Carter, JRC, Buckley, Travis, Pike and probably McBride all part of the 1st team squad. Thats will be 9 players from academy/Under 23's in our first team squad. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Next season we will have Nyambe, Lenihan, Carter, JRC, Buckley, Travis, Pike and probably McBride all part of the 1st team squad. 

League 1 here we come...🙄

[K-Hod]

11 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

I personally am completely against the Taylor Hardwood Bellis, why are we openly offering to produce someone else's player it's absolutely pathetic.

THB isn't going to help us get promoted or stay up.

Let's play our own academy players and develop them than develop some pathetic clubs youth academy.

 

Why would you be completely against us signing (even short term) a player that would improve our starting eleven?

[davulsukur]

Scott Wharton signs a new contract to 2024:

 

[chaddyrovers]

13 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Scott Wharton signs a new contract to 2024:

 

Excellent news and delighted we have secure another player who came through our academy to a new contract 

[Blue blood]

2 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Why would you be completely against us signing (even short term) a player that would improve our starting eleven?

I think it is the short term-ism that's maybe being objected to. As in its just deferring a problem for another year. We've seen it in goal and defence over the years. 

IF they are the final pieces of the puzzle that's fair enough, get them in. But often we use them as sticking plasters over gaping wounds to defer a problem. 

We've had 3 years of shoddy left backs, for example. just imagine if we had signed one (I know we have now, but 2 or 3 seasons too late.) Or instead of Tosin, Bauer. There'd be continuity and we wouldn't be facing the same problems and deferring issues for later. The amount of signings needed each year wouldn't be overwhelming. It's a terrible way to go. 

So yeah I can see some frustration at our current loan policy. Although am not against, indeed actively for, them filling in the final pieces of the jigsaw. For us however they make up half the picture and that is a problem. 

[rigger]

14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Who would be in midfield 4 and the 2 up front? 

Does it include Buckley? Why not play Buckley as number 10 in 4-2-3-1? 

Not against playing 4-4-2 but we need a left foot left winger and good defensive midfield partner for Travis to make it work for me? 

I'm wasn't expecting answers today btw

I would play Travis and Rothwell as the two central midfielders ( Buckley and Johnson as back-ups ). JRC as right winger, ( Dolan as back-up ). Chapman as left winger (we need a back-up ). As for playing the more complicated system, Lets get  a grip of the simple systems first. The more complicated the system, the more excuses players have for mistakes.

[Ulrich]

14 hours ago, tomphil said:

As far as i reckon they just know they aren't going to get the money bid they want for him. Taking into account Newcastles whopping 40% so the only other option is to try and tempt him to sign another contract.

According to the local paper when he signed he was put on c15k pwk and they had to give him 4 years, to balance out he was dropping from 20 grand at Newcastle. So it'll have to be a whopping wage to get him on another contract. He'll probably want a less than massive get out clause as well.

These lot paid Rhodes about 40k per week by the end of his time here and they didn't end up making a huge profit on his fee either. Now we might have to sell another good player in order to put that towards a new AA deal.

It's a fook up really having to potentially do that when you consider the amount Mowbray has wasted. Especially in recent times on ones who've contributed fack all,  Downing springs to mind. Then a fee for Pears etc, i'm very uneasy with all this old pals stuff again.

It is NOT in the best interests of the club imo.

I concur with your thoughts, TM has ballsed matters up with the money he has been given. I am still perplexed at 5m for a right winger/full back in Gally. I don't think anything has been in Rovers best interests since they arrived and quite frankly wish they would just piss off.

[47er]

2 hours ago, davulsukur said:

Scott Wharton signs a new contract to 2024:

 

Good lad.

[briansol]

33 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

I think it is the short term-ism that's maybe being objected to. As in its just deferring a problem for another year. We've seen it in goal and defence over the years. 

IF they are the final pieces of the puzzle that's fair enough, get them in. But often we use them as sticking plasters over gaping wounds to defer a problem. 

We've had 3 years of shoddy left backs, for example. just imagine if we had signed one (I know we have now, but 2 or 3 seasons too late.) Or instead of Tosin, Bauer. There'd be continuity and we wouldn't be facing the same problems and deferring issues for later. The amount of signings needed each year wouldn't be overwhelming. It's a terrible way to go. 

So yeah I can see some frustration at our current loan policy. Although am not against, indeed actively for, them filling in the final pieces of the jigsaw. For us however they make up half the picture and that is a problem. 

I think most agree with the preference of permanent players. Think loans has been a stop-gap in some cases after failing to acquire players permanently. 

The last two seasons we have seen very little money spent or recieved on player trading. In interviews it has been pointed out that has been difficult to match wage demands even when we have had a bid accepted. 

Realisticly I think we have to look at either lower league or foreign players (from less expensive leagues). That demands good scouting and is risky.

The Brentford model looks good, but even they buy a lot of duds. However that has been offset buy very high quality players they have sold on which has kept financing their trading. Still they haven't reached PL yet.

Ipswich made huge bet on League One players the year after we went up. Spent a lot of money buying players like Joe Nolan and failed massively ending in relegation are still in League One. 

This summer is interesting because the large clear-out could open space for more academy players. Nyambe, Travis, Lenihan, Wharton, Rankin-Costello and Buckley makes a good core already. Carter should be able to included in the squad after his successful loan as well. For the next batch, I unfortunatly think it's a season too soon for most of them.

They would benefit from a loan in League One/Two first. Learning on the job in the Championship is a tough task, and could destroy their confidence. The gap from U23 to Championship is massive and I don't think many of them are ready. Naturally since most them came from U18, and had their first year in U23. Pike is the obvious one which I'm confident could do a job, however he is not better than Nyambe or Rankin-Costello. 

Butterworth and Vale is the more senior ones, who already has been involved and could kick-on. McBride has something about him, but is a behind those two and should have a loan first.

 

 

 

 

[Herbie6590]

A lot of (unpaid) work has gone into this, well worth a read IMO.

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/65654151/blackburn-rovers-season-analysis-recruitment-2021

 

[Mattyblue]

He and his contributors certainly have put the graft in, and fair play to anybody that is still engaged enough with this shell of a club to put something like that together...

but on his actual views, isn’t he the bloke that said the other week  ‘by every measure we’ve significantly improved this season’?

Edited May 24, 2021 by Mattyblue

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

I would play Travis and Rothwell as the two central midfielders ( Buckley and Johnson as back-ups ). JRC as right winger, ( Dolan as back-up ). Chapman as left winger (we need a back-up ). As for playing the more complicated system, Lets get  a grip of the simple systems first. The more complicated the system, the more excuses players have for mistakes.

I don't see Rothwell and Chapman being here next season. Chapman's contract isn't going to be extend and Rothwell will be sold whilst we can get some money for him. 

I don't see us playing 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 formations any more complicated than 4-4-2 which most of this squad haven't played in before under Mowbray. 

I would say if Armstrong is staying then we need transfer wise a back up left back, Centre back, 2 centre midfielders, 1 winger and possible a striker. 

[Fraserkirky]

25 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

He and his contributors certainly have put the graft in, and fair play to anybody that is still engaged enough with this shell of a club to put something like that together...

but on his actual views, isn’t he the bloke that said the other week  ‘by every measure we’ve significantly improved this season’?

Yeah he is, and if you read the document the data shows that. 

Its doesnt really mean anything of course, but by every measure(Apart from League Table)

[TruRover]

In relation to the debate about what system we should play next season. I would argue that 3511 (Sheffield Uniteds formation of past few seasons) would get the best out of our current players. With the assumption that Armstrong will leave, and that everyone is fit, other than Wharton and Dack, we could have a line up looking like:

GK: Kaminski

CB: Nymabe

CB: Lenihan 

CB: Carter (Wharton)

RM: JRC

CDM: Travis  

CM:Buckley

CM: Rothwell

LM: Pickering

CF: Dolan/Chapman (Dack)

ST: Brereton/Gally

I think defensively it leaves us in good shape. A physical back 3 who are good in the air and not avoid of pace (nymabe is rapid and Wharton and lenihan are no slouches as CBs go). In travis they would have one of the best anchor mans in the division shielding them and two wide players who have shown (In terms of Pickering what has been gathered from reviews and reports on him) that they have the energy to get up and down the touch line constantly, an important trait in this system to support both the defence and attack. In fact I think it would be the role which could get the best out of them both, particularly JRC who I really rate as a player. Both have the ability to put the ball in the box with real quality, giving us a real threat from wide areas.
 

In central midfield, we would have Buckley and Rothwell to the left and right of Travis. Between those two we should have the ability to not only keep hold of the ball, but to play through the lines and open up defences. With Travis anchoring, both players would have a bit more freedom to roam and get on the ball. If we needed abit more defensively solidarity then you could always replace one for Johnson or davenport and have two out of the 3 anchoring.

A big worry amongst this forum is seemingly goals, as without Arma we may seem to struggle. However I don’t see this as such an issue as some do. In Bradley Dack we have a player who is capable of getting 20 a season quite easily if fit. And this formation, with him playing just off a focal striker would suit him to a tee. I really think we need to build our team around him if we are to have any hopes next season. Yes I know it probably won’t be until 2022 until we see him fit again, however I’d argue that the role off the striker would play to the strengths of Dolan and Chapman aswell. Neither players imo has the pace or aggression to play out wide, however both have the ability to take it past a few players and open the game up. The most dangerous place to that from is in this role, just off the striker where they have to play in tight spaces and don’t need to rely on pace to get past a quick full back.  
 

Finally we come to the big money strikers. Neither have impressed me enough here, but I still hold hopes for both of them. Brereton in particular I think can have a big role for us. At times this past season he has been unplayable, worked his socks off, held the ball up, and showed a knack for being able to carry it up the pitch. All attributes essential to this role. His finishing needs work no doubt, I don’t believe he will ever be a natural one, but confidence could do him wonders. On the other hand we have Gally. A player I believe is a bit of a donkey. Yet he has played nearly all of the past 2 seasons out wide and due to that I feel that I and others have judged him too harshly. Once again he is strong, decently quick and at times shown to be a decent finishing, especially from crosses, from inside the box, something he is not able to do from the wings. Once again I reckon this role would get the best out of them, especially with a link man playing off them. 
 

I would argue than a new CB and CM and wide man( preferably with genuine pace) would make us a stronger outfit, but I do reckon the line up I have recommended could do damage in the league next season. Ofc, this is all irrelevant under TM, as we will go nowhere with him in charge, but if we were to bring a 3 at the back specialist as manager *ahem Wilder ahem* then I would genuinely back us for the play offs. 

 

 

 

[Mattyblue]

26 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

Yeah he is, and if you read the document the data shows that. 

Its doesnt really mean anything of course, but by every measure(Apart from League Table)

We haven’t ‘significantly improved’ then, as we are talking about a first team not a development squad.

And saying so is just daft (though I’m sure there is bundles of similar stuff going to Pune from the analysts at Brockhall with TM/SW seals of approval, so it’s obviously luddites like me, who gauge improvement of a football team by points and wins, that have it wrong)

Edited May 24, 2021 by Mattyblue

[JohnGo]

2 hours ago, Blue blood said:

I think it is the short term-ism that's maybe being objected to. As in its just deferring a problem for another year. We've seen it in goal and defence over the years. 

IF they are the final pieces of the puzzle that's fair enough, get them in. But often we use them as sticking plasters over gaping wounds to defer a problem. 

We've had 3 years of shoddy left backs, for example. just imagine if we had signed one (I know we have now, but 2 or 3 seasons too late.) Or instead of Tosin, Bauer. There'd be continuity and we wouldn't be facing the same problems and deferring issues for later. The amount of signings needed each year wouldn't be overwhelming. It's a terrible way to go. 

So yeah I can see some frustration at our current loan policy. Although am not against, indeed actively for, them filling in the final pieces of the jigsaw. For us however they make up half the picture and that is a problem. 

It would enable Scott Wharton time to get up to speed and not be rushed back plus Ayala only needs to look at a ball and he’s injured. If we can find another good centre back this window great if not Harwood Bellis gives them another 12 months to sort out the problem by which time Carter if he is loaned out to a Championship side would be ready to step in.