Summer transfer window 2021.

[JohnGo]

19 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Well first off I'm criticising a whole strategy not just one transfer. As in the over reliance on loans all over the park. And the fact it's been going on for years - some of which when we have had a very decent transfer budget. For example had we got Bauer rather than Tosin (my go to example) we wouldn't be in as much as a mess. So it's a strategy for years that has set us back. Continuing with it is not going to help. Indeed even last summer the Ayala debacle shows there was some money there but we spent it poorly. 

Anyhow onto viable alternatives. Firstly if Armstrong is sold then some of those fees could be reinvested into the defence. A novel concept I acknowledge but we could be looking to spend some of that money on defence. Defenders are coming after all. 

Secondly there is the free transfer market. I haven't had a look but to say there wouldn't be a decent centre back in there would be very surprising. And we certainly should have money for a centre half on a free, just from Mulgrew's exit alone. But when you factor in the rest of the dross that has gone we have enough for a good wage for a free transfer. And had we not kept Johnson that would have been even more. 

Thirdly we could with good scouting minimize the risk of signing a lower league player. You say it's a risk we shouldn't take but with proper scouting that risk is alleviated. That's the point of good scouting, lowering the risks. What makes this a bit ironic is that you are talking about gambling on not proved in the championship yet are championing Carter who equally wouldn't be proven and Warton who has limited experience at this level. It seems a bit double standards on this point. 

Finally if we do go down the loan route I would prefer someone with a loan to buy option. That way if it works we can benefit from the learning curve in later seasons. With a sell on clause and another year to get the budget for it the likelihood of being able to afford the transfer. 

So there's a few different options!

So you’re alternative is to sell the second best forward in the league to build a team based on Mowbrays super scounting system. I’d sooner build the team around Armstrong.

[gumboots]

The issue is, whatever we sell Armstrong for will disappear into a black hole somewhere. It will NOT be invested in the defence. Weve seen it all before.

[1864roverite]

There are footballers in the lower leagues who might excel at a club like ours if they are given sufficient chances likewise the likes of Carter, Wharton and Magliore.

 

Midfield wise we need a leader and a creator, someone in the mould of a Sherwood type player. Barry Bannan fits that criteria but whether we could tempt in is another matter.

Such a player allows Johnson to be the defensive midfielder alongside Travis leaving space for a wide player who can play off both feet. Chapman has to be able to take his chances if he stays.

Central defence needs a player like TBH, I would take him back on loan in a shot. Looks good alongside Lenihan and the more experience and games he plays he just gets better. We just need to full backs who won’t constantly get caught out of position to work alongside a compact back 4.

We have, as other point out, the makings of a good squad, it just needs putting together and it’s there the problems lies, Mowbray appears incapable of putting these jigsaw pieces together to complete the picture.

[rigger]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I read everything. Its Mowbray who wouldnt buy a centre half. We had the money in the first season or second season when we promoted whether its Konsa who was Charlton at the time or Egan at Brentford or Cooper at Millwall. Instead when for Rodwell. 

But I cant think of many hard as nails centre backs in the Championship anyway

Johngo never said that you didn't read everything. What he said was that you don't take-in, what you read.

[Sparks Rover]

17 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Central defence needs a player like TBH, I would take him back on loan in a shot. Looks good alongside Lenihan and the more experience and games he plays he just gets better.

I don't care if he gets better.  He can start on the bench and if Carter/Magliore/Wharton are.not cutting it then he comes in.....but citeh won't have that.....what's the point in any of it...🤷‍♂️ 

[Blue blood]

2 hours ago, JohnGo said:

So you’re alternative is to sell the second best forward in the league to build a team based on Mowbrays super scounting system. I’d sooner build the team around Armstrong.

Sigh. 

You asked me what the alternative to the City lad was. I offered you a number of options, one alternative being to sell our best player and reinvest the money across the squad. 

There were a few other alternatives which didn't require this which I also suggested which you have ignored.l, including free agents and loans to buy. You could also finance a signing by selling another player instead of Armstrong (albeit for less cash.) 

I've offered numerous reasonable ways of improving the defence, which if you don't just pick bits from the response you will see. 

[Blue blood]

4 hours ago, JohnGo said:

Please go back over the thread. I didn’t say we did. I was responding to the quote. You skim over the thread without taking in what is written.

 

3 hours ago, JohnGo said:

We’ll clear up your response as it looked like I’d suggested this was our option. I’m happy to debate, but not misrepresented.

 

32 minutes ago, rigger said:

Johngo never said that you didn't read everything. What he said was that you don't take-in, what you read.

Chaddy will have missed fair chunks of the debate as I am on ignore. 

(I assume for criticising the government rather than TMs transfer policy but I digress...)

[JacknOry]

9 hours ago, TruRover said:

In relation to the debate about what system we should play next season. I would argue that 3511 (Sheffield Uniteds formation of past few seasons) would get the best out of our current players. With the assumption that Armstrong will leave, and that everyone is fit, other than Wharton and Dack, we could have a line up looking like:

GK: Kaminski

CB: Nymabe

CB: Lenihan 

CB: Carter (Wharton)

RM: JRC

CDM: Travis  

CM:Buckley

CM: Rothwell

LM: Pickering

CF: Dolan/Chapman (Dack)

ST: Brereton/Gally

I think defensively it leaves us in good shape. A physical back 3 who are good in the air and not avoid of pace (nymabe is rapid and Wharton and lenihan are no slouches as CBs go). In travis they would have one of the best anchor mans in the division shielding them and two wide players who have shown (In terms of Pickering what has been gathered from reviews and reports on him) that they have the energy to get up and down the touch line constantly, an important trait in this system to support both the defence and attack. In fact I think it would be the role which could get the best out of them both, particularly JRC who I really rate as a player. Both have the ability to put the ball in the box with real quality, giving us a real threat from wide areas.
 

In central midfield, we would have Buckley and Rothwell to the left and right of Travis. Between those two we should have the ability to not only keep hold of the ball, but to play through the lines and open up defences. With Travis anchoring, both players would have a bit more freedom to roam and get on the ball. If we needed abit more defensively solidarity then you could always replace one for Johnson or davenport and have two out of the 3 anchoring.

A big worry amongst this forum is seemingly goals, as without Arma we may seem to struggle. However I don’t see this as such an issue as some do. In Bradley Dack we have a player who is capable of getting 20 a season quite easily if fit. And this formation, with him playing just off a focal striker would suit him to a tee. I really think we need to build our team around him if we are to have any hopes next season. Yes I know it probably won’t be until 2022 until we see him fit again, however I’d argue that the role off the striker would play to the strengths of Dolan and Chapman aswell. Neither players imo has the pace or aggression to play out wide, however both have the ability to take it past a few players and open the game up. The most dangerous place to that from is in this role, just off the striker where they have to play in tight spaces and don’t need to rely on pace to get past a quick full back.  
 

Finally we come to the big money strikers. Neither have impressed me enough here, but I still hold hopes for both of them. Brereton in particular I think can have a big role for us. At times this past season he has been unplayable, worked his socks off, held the ball up, and showed a knack for being able to carry it up the pitch. All attributes essential to this role. His finishing needs work no doubt, I don’t believe he will ever be a natural one, but confidence could do him wonders. On the other hand we have Gally. A player I believe is a bit of a donkey. Yet he has played nearly all of the past 2 seasons out wide and due to that I feel that I and others have judged him too harshly. Once again he is strong, decently quick and at times shown to be a decent finishing, especially from crosses, from inside the box, something he is not able to do from the wings. Once again I reckon this role would get the best out of them, especially with a link man playing off them. 
 

I would argue than a new CB and CM and wide man( preferably with genuine pace) would make us a stronger outfit, but I do reckon the line up I have recommended could do damage in the league next season. Ofc, this is all irrelevant under TM, as we will go nowhere with him in charge, but if we were to bring a 3 at the back specialist as manager *ahem Wilder ahem* then I would genuinely back us for the play offs. 

 

 

 

Sorry, but you need to break that up a bit. Didn't even read as it a wall of text.

I probably agree though.

[Tom]

9 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

We haven’t ‘significantly improved’ then, as we are talking about a first team not a development squad.

And saying so is just daft (though I’m sure there is bundles of similar stuff going to Pune from the analysts at Brockhall with TM/SW seals of approval, so it’s obviously luddites like me, who gauge improvement of a football team by points and wins, that have it wrong)

But what xG and other metrics do prove is if there was a bit more ‘dew on the grass’………..

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, rigger said:

Actually I think our squad is suited to 4-4-2. The players just need playing in the correct positions. As for other teams I couldn't give a shit what systems they play, as it has no effect whatsoever on the Rovers results.

We have to agree to disagree

Those teams show how to get promoted from this league though good recruitment, players sign fit the tactics and formation 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, rigger said:

Actually I think our squad is suited to 4-4-2. The players just need playing in the correct positions. As for other teams I couldn't give a shit what systems they play, as it has no effect whatsoever on the Rovers results.

I just can't see it. With a 4-4-2 you need wide men who can deliver. We don't have that at all

[47er]

25 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I just can't see it. With a 4-4-2 you need wide men who can deliver. We don't have that at all

So fix it Tony.

[tomphil]

To fix something you first have to recognize it's broken and that is not one of this managers strong points.

 

[Ulrich]

33 minutes ago, tomphil said:

To fix something you first have to recognize it's broken and that is not one of this managers strong points.

 

I'm willing to wager in his head he believes that if everyone did exactly what he asks, we'd have won the league, FA cup and League cup, such is his delusion. It's never his fault he is omnipotent, all hail the Messiah Tony 'jesus' Mowbray.

[LeftWinger]

18 hours ago, TruRover said:

GK: Kaminski

CB: Nymabe

CB: Lenihan 

CB: Carter (Wharton)

RM: JRC

CDM: Travis  

CM:Buckley

CM: Rothwell

LM: Pickering

CF: Dolan/Chapman (Dack)

ST: Brereton/Gally

If we line up with that team next season with Mowbray in charge, we'll get relegated.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, LeftWinger said:

If we line up with that team next season with Mowbray in charge, we'll get relegated.

Mowbray had a young team at Cov I think which started like a house on fire and was doing well up to Christmas then fell apart in the 2nd half of the season. Season after he got sacked after not winning any of the fist ten games. Here's hoping for the sacking part...

[rigger]

9 hours ago, JoeH said:

I just can't see it. With a 4-4-2 you need wide men who can deliver. We don't have that at all

JRC, Dolan and Chapman.

[chaddyrovers]

24 minutes ago, rigger said:

JRC, Dolan and Chapman.

Chapman wont be staying at Rovers next season?

Edited May 25, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[Blue blood]

The more I think about it the biggest problem is TM has no idea of his best team and formation. Before anything else this is a crucial step to knowing what is needed. Without it we've been holed below the waterline before we begin. 

How can we know what players we need when we don't know the formation? How can we know what skills are missing if we don't know the team? There's been so much chopping and changing that different players suit different formations, and either way some large gaps appear. 

Just a few examples - Gally would probably benefit from 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 with him playing central. The former in particular would I think allow his limited strengths to shine. Bereton however only looks vaguely useful in a 4-3-3. So one of them because of the formation is going to be a dead weight. Or another example who are the main midfield three or two for example? If it's a 3 with Travis and Rothwell then we need someone who has a more defensive mindset. If it's more of the likes of Johnson then someone more mobile is needed. On Rothwell TM has talked about him playing in the number 10 role. If that's the system who else is going to play there when he is injured/rested as that role is pivotal to the success. If it's Rothwell in a midfield 3 then the cover would be a totally different kind of player. 

I could go on and on. Basically since we have no idea of the team or system then recruitment is going to struggle before we even begin. For us to not know our best 11, or majority of, or even the formation after 4 years of TM makes an utter mockery of the journey we are allegedly on. 

[Sparks Rover]

27 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Chapman wont be staying at Rovers next season?

You make a statement with a question mark at the end.....?

[DE.]

20 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

The more I think about it the biggest problem is TM has no idea of his best team and formation. Before anything else this is a crucial step to knowing what is needed. Without it we've been holed below the waterline before we begin. 

How can we know what players we need when we don't know the formation? How can we know what skills are missing if we don't know the team? There's been so much chopping and changing that different players suit different formations, and either way some large gaps appear. 

Just a few examples - Gally would probably benefit from 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 with him playing central. The former in particular would I think allow his limited strengths to shine. Bereton however only looks vaguely useful in a 4-3-3. So one of them because of the formation is going to be a dead weight. Or another example who are the main midfield three or two for example? If it's a 3 with Travis and Rothwell then we need someone who has a more defensive mindset. If it's more of the likes of Johnson then someone more mobile is needed. On Rothwell TM has talked about him playing in the number 10 role. If that's the system who else is going to play there when he is injured/rested as that role is pivotal to the success. If it's Rothwell in a midfield 3 then the cover would be a totally different kind of player. 

I could go on and on. Basically since we have no idea of the team or system then recruitment is going to struggle before we even begin. For us to not know our best 11, or majority of, or even the formation after 4 years of TM makes an utter mockery of the journey we are allegedly on. 

I thought Mowbray had some idea of what he wanted at the beginning of the season, when we started off with our counter-attacking 4-3-3. Problem is it only worked against poor teams that didn't realise they needed to defend against us (and keep 11 men on the pitch). The better teams still beat us, and when the poorer teams realised we couldn't break down a solid defence our goose was basically cooked for this season as Tony had no Plan B. Instead he just resorted to a messy, possession-based smorgasbord of our past, stodgy tactics which made the first month of the season seem like some kind of collective hallucination. 

[Mattyblue]

8 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

You make a statement with a question mark at the end.....?

It’s his new posting style, I’ve noticed. Our very own Cicero.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Mattyblue

[Blue blood]

20 minutes ago, DE. said:

I thought Mowbray had some idea of what he wanted at the beginning of the season, when we started off with our counter-attacking 4-3-3. Problem is it only worked against poor teams that didn't realise they needed to defend against us (and keep 11 men on the pitch). The better teams still beat us, and when the poorer teams realised we couldn't break down a solid defence our goose was basically cooked for this season as Tony had no Plan B. Instead he just resorted to a messy, possession-based smorgasbord of our past, stodgy tactics which made the first month of the season seem like some kind of collective hallucination. 

Yeah that's a fair summary of the season, although it still lands us in the place of not knowing our best team or system! 

It's ironic that when we did have a plan it was a terrible one. But I do wonder if the lack of a plan is hurting us even more than having s bad one that can be amended and improved upon?

As it is at least we would know what we are trying to do and what we are recruiting towards. As it is the current uncertain mess has us utterly adrift when it comes to recruitment. 

It's also worth noting that even with this plan TM has never recruited to a plan and just brought random players. 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Mowbray had a young team at Cov I think which started like a house on fire and was doing well up to Christmas then fell apart in the 2nd half of the season. Season after he got sacked after not winning any of the fist ten games. Here's hoping for the sacking part...

I was reading some dialogue between Rovers & Cov fans not long ago.  Aside from anything to do with training ground sell offs the stuff they were saying about the football & recruitment side of it was almost identical.

Now a season or two ago the similarity with his time at Boro were strikingly relevant. 

Him and his goonies are turning us from a Boro into a Coventry bit by bit. I am 100% dead set in certainty than if we continue to follow their 'journey' we will be relegated again within the next 2 years.

Why alarm bells aren't ringing loud and clear by now across all our fanbase and local media i don't know.  

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by tomphil

[Guest]

Rankin-Costello I'll give as a wide midfielder. Dolan and Chapman aren't players you'd use in a 4-4-2 and get success out of. Chapman's success at Shrewsbury came in behind the striker and neither him or Dolan are going to be putting crosses into the box all game for me.