Summer transfer window 2021.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Anything in it?

Well Coventry are keeping really quiet about whether he hit the apps needed to force the obligation from Coventry to buy. But if his contract is up I really don't understand. So he can come on a free to us, but Coventry owe them a fee even though his deal is up? Then you have the whole compensation conversation because of his age if he does leave and join somebody after his contract ends.

Weird scenario

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, JoeH said:

Well Coventry are keeping really quiet about whether he hit the apps needed to force the obligation from Coventry to buy. But if his contract is up I really don't understand. So he can come on a free to us, but Coventry owe them a fee even though his deal is up? Then you have the whole compensation conversation because of his age if he does leave and join somebody after his contract ends.

Weird scenario

From reading up on this the agreement between Arsenal and Cov there was an option to buy for £750k if number of appearances were met, and certain other criteria such as fitness were met. Robins has said it was more of an 'obligation' to buy once those criteria were met so callumrovers was probably right in his post that Cov were reluctant to play him as it would trigger the obligation to buy. He seems to have injury problems and appears to have not been amazing at Cov so maybe they don't want to spend £750k on him.

If he's now out of contract they may try to get him on a free. It's also possible that the original obligation had a deadline that had to be met so perhaps Cov will only move for him on a free when that deadline passes, basically so they don't have to pay the £750k.

You didn't answer if Rovers have an interest? 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[Admiral Nelsen]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'd be off to Rangers if I were him.  Champions League football and I bet Gerrard would take him on loan.  He needs a step up from Benno, Bucko and Gally

 

Agree that there's quite a lot of sense in that move, especially if they have full crowds next season. If I were Liverpool I'd want him to start getting used to producing under the kind of pressure he'd face at Anfield - so either Rangers or a team expecting promotion would bring that in different ways.

 

I actually think he played with a perfectly decent squad last year, just one which badly unperformed. I also disagree quite a bit with your assessment of Buckley too, but you're alrighty fighting that one on a few fronts so I'll leave it there!

[Admiral Nelsen]

1 hour ago, Oldgregg86 said:

A lot of comments remind me of what people said about Tom cairney. A lot of the managers mismanagement reminds me of how cairney was shunted around and never developed when it was clear to see the talent he had .Another gem I was sad to see leave . If rothwell leaves and for example went to Barnsley . He could be the next player been touted for the prem. Another reason I consistently say I have no idea who plays where, what our best 11 is and what ability the players actually have. Until we get proper management and coaches in place it will forever be. I hope rothwell stays. He is well worth a place In the squad on the ability he has shown already. He might be average, he could be the next cairney. Sadly we will never know until he does leave

 

Quite a lot in this I think. Having said that, I don't remember too much frustration with Cairney's performances per se, more that he wasn't used properly. 

 

Trouble with inconsistent players is that whereas sometimes it just takes the right environment to set them straight, sometimes players will just remain inconsistent. Hard to say which sort Rothwell is, although I'd definitely keep him if he's open to signing a new deal. Wonderful player to watch, and his end product is improving, which is easy to miss with the team as a whole underperforming. 

[davulsukur]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

My argument was that he doesn't know how to use them really.  Look at where we finished?  But you can support Mowbray if you like, I want him gone and replaced with a better manager.

On Dolan.  The jury is definitely out. And the other one.JRC.  You can't say they are established championship players,

Jury is deffo still out on Dolan (and JRC too really).

Problem with Dolan is, he burst onto the scene and was electric in those first couple of games. Steps overs, tricks, pace etc. Gave us something totally different. Problem is, I think he was quickly worked out by the defenders in the league after that. So his performances dropped. 

He went missing for a while but came back with less step overs but was a bit more productive.

Next season, hopefully he continues to improve but at the moment, the jury is out for me.

[simongarnerisgod]

9 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Jury is deffo still out on Dolan (and JRC too really).

Problem with Dolan is, he burst onto the scene and was electric in those first couple of games. Steps overs, tricks, pace etc. Gave us something totally different. Problem is, I think he was quickly worked out by the defenders in the league after that. So his performances dropped. 

He went missing for a while but came back with less step overs but was a bit more productive.

Next season, hopefully he continues to improve but at the moment, the jury is out for me.

he won`t improve while mowbray is here,neither will rothwell,jrc,nyambe or anyone else who needs guidance and encouragement from their manager,ironically the only one who did get better towards the end of the season was buckley,then he got dropped for the final games,that tells you everything about the turnip we have in charge,he`s a useless cretin who`s picking up his wages while not doing his job

[Oldgregg86]

38 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

Quite a lot in this I think. Having said that, I don't remember too much frustration with Cairney's performances per se, more that he wasn't used properly. 

 

Trouble with inconsistent players is that whereas sometimes it just takes the right environment to set them straight, sometimes players will just remain inconsistent. Hard to say which sort Rothwell is, although I'd definitely keep him if he's open to signing a new deal. Wonderful player to watch, and his end product is improving, which is easy to miss with the team as a whole underperforming. 

Yeah can’t disagree with any of that. I think more from hope than expectation he will develop in to a quality player but he is good enough for our squad an highly doubt we could replace him with better . 

[bluebruce]

36 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Jury is deffo still out on Dolan (and JRC too really).

Problem with Dolan is, he burst onto the scene and was electric in those first couple of games. Steps overs, tricks, pace etc. Gave us something totally different. Problem is, I think he was quickly worked out by the defenders in the league after that. So his performances dropped. 

He went missing for a while but came back with less step overs but was a bit more productive.

Next season, hopefully he continues to improve but at the moment, the jury is out for me.

I'm always confused by this reading of what happened with Dolan early doors. The problem wasn't anything to do with Dolan, the problem was Mowbray brought in an even younger lad that we didn't own and played him instead, terrified to have them both playing at the same time on opposite flanks. That was what killed Dolan's momentum, hampered his confidence, and I more than suspect during his time out he was discouraged from playing with quite as freedom. You keep going with players who have built up momentum, especially very young ones. All sorts can happen to their mindset when you don't.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I'm always confused by this reading of what happened with Dolan early doors. The problem wasn't anything to do with Dolan, the problem was Mowbray brought in an even younger lad that we didn't own and played him instead, terrified to have them both playing at the same time on opposite flanks. That was what killed Dolan's momentum, hampered his confidence, and I more than suspect during his time out he was discouraged from playing with quite as freedom. You keep going with players who have built up momentum, especially very young ones. All sorts can happen to their mindset when you don't.

This is true, but it must be caveated with the fact Elliott had more end product 

He should have played them together more, but that would be far too exciting. More of a Evans and Smallwood man , that's what Mowbray sees value in 

[Sparks Rover]

44 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I'm always confused by this reading of what happened with Dolan early doors. The problem wasn't anything to do with Dolan, the problem was Mowbray brought in an even younger lad that we didn't own and played him instead, terrified to have them both playing at the same time on opposite flanks. That was what killed Dolan's momentum, hampered his confidence, and I more than suspect during his time out he was discouraged from playing with quite as freedom. You keep going with players who have built up momentum, especially very young ones. All sorts can happen to their mindset when you don't.

Would Mowbray look at it as one of them released by Alex Neil so we.took a punt, the other is hyped as one of the next best England players....

[tomphil]

54 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

This is true, but it must be caveated with the fact Elliott had more end product 

He should have played them together more, but that would be far too exciting. More of a Evans and Smallwood man , that's what Mowbray sees value in 

Any squad in this division containing Armstrong, Elliot, Dack, Rothwell, Dolan, Travis and yes even Gallagher should be causing problems weekly.

And you know what, they do when he lets them have a go. Sadly the boring old fart would rather doze in the dugout whilst his team goes sideways and backwards on the Park. 

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by tomphil

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, JBiz said:

Dolan, Elliott, JRC, Arma...

Imagine a junior football coach viewing our squad as completely “un-skilful..!”

Worrying..

Agreed there. Dolan, Dack, JRC, Armstrong, Buckley, Rothwell, Brereton all have plenty of skill to proved that opinion is wrong

5 hours ago, neophox said:

Think Rothwell will sign a new contract... Holtby´s gone and Dack injured. He is the player for the 10th role. Behind the strikers.

 

Do we play with a 10 in Mowbray 4-3-3- formation?

5 hours ago, neophox said:

Armstrong, Gallagher

Brereton, Rothwell, Rankin-Costello

Travis

Pickering, Ayala, Lenihan, Nyambe

Kaminski

This is the team with the fit players we have at the moment that would start a game for me.

 

 

Very strange formation and for me we still need a good defensive midfield in front of the back 4 allowing Travis to play his natural game

4 hours ago, JoeH said:

Just not true.

QPR (H) he started, we won.
Rotherham (H) he started, we won.
Brentford (A) he did 52 minutes on the field, we drew.
Millwall (A) he started, we won.
Swansea (H) he started, we drew.
Norwich (A) he started, we drew.
Birmingham (H) he started, we won.

Well done on those stats and proving in wrong. Maybe with them we should be starting him more and develop his obvious talent into a key player in the future

[Sparks Rover]

5 hours ago, JoeH said:

Just not true.

QPR (H) he started, we won.
Rotherham (H) he started, we won.
Brentford (A) he did 52 minutes on the field, we drew.
Millwall (A) he started, we won.
Swansea (H) he started, we drew.
Norwich (A) he started, we drew.
Birmingham (H) he started, we won.

Hold on Joe.

QPR Home - On Bench not starting

Rotherham Home - started was subbed and we scored 2 in last.10 mins when he went off

Brentford  - presuming he didn't start or you'd have said

Swansea Home - another draw 

Norwich - We drew

Brum - easiest game of the season when brum were on the beach after securing their survival (yes they are one of the leagues worst teams)

Sorry mate, you've massaged the figures again. Let's not that get in the way though eh?  I thought you were a details man

2 starts where we have won. 🙄 both against bottom 4 teams.  

You won't convince me mate I've seen him with my own eyes...

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Sparks Rover

[yeti-dog]

Blimey Sparks - talk about a dog with a bone when you were the one who made a clearly bogus comment initially about us losing when Buckley starts

Your last post then basically just reaffirms Joe's post was correct other than him not starting against QPR although I'd suggest the fact he came on after 5 minutes is almost as good as starting?

Time to move on maybe before you dig the hole any deeper...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

Hold on Joe.

QPR Home - On Bench not starting

Rotherham Home - started was subbed and we scored 2 in last.10 mins when he went off

Brentford  - presuming he didn't start or you'd have said

Swansea Home - another draw 

Norwich - We drew

Brum - easiest game of the season when brum were on the beach after securing their survival (yes they are one of the leagues worst teams)

Sorry mate, you've massaged the figures again. Let's not that get in the way though eh?  I thought you were a details man

2 starts where we have won. 🙄 both against bottom 4 teams.  

You won't convince me mate I've seen him with my own eyes...

 

I just went off games where he had 45+ minutes attributed to him. One of them I knew he hadn’t started which was Brentford, as I stated. I couldn’t find data on starts. No massaging, just an honest error.

Edited June 5, 2021 by JoeH

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

Hold on Joe.

QPR Home - On Bench not starting

Rotherham Home - started was subbed and we scored 2 in last.10 mins when he went off

Brentford  - presuming he didn't start or you'd have said

Swansea Home - another draw 

Norwich - We drew

Brum - easiest game of the season when brum were on the beach after securing their survival (yes they are one of the leagues worst teams)

Sorry mate, you've massaged the figures again. Let's not that get in the way though eh?  I thought you were a details man

2 starts where we have won. 🙄 both against bottom 4 teams.  

You won't convince me mate I've seen him with my own eyes...

 

I didn’t know that. All that crap about massaging the stats over 5 minutes of a game? Crikey. “We always lose when Buckley starts” was the original claim like you say. Total nonsense!

[joey_big_nose]

12 hours ago, neophox said:

Think Rothwell will sign a new contract... Holtby´s gone and Dack injured. He is the player for the 10th role. Behind the strikers.

 

Yes - if its about money I am sure we would eventually come to an arrangement. Keeping Rothwell on a higher wage is going to be cheaper than buying someone new (unless Rothwell's asking for mad money, which is possible I suppose).  

I guess the issue may be Rothwell just fancies playing for a different manager. Then I can't really see what we can do about that. He will have offers.

[AndyW]

Don't want to add more fuel to the fire necessarily and not trying to fool Sparks' eyes, if you think Buckley isn't up to it, that's fine.

But Buckley is statistically a net positive to the side. Still a small sample in terms of minutes but to say we lose every time he starts is a bit far.

I genuinely do rate him FWIW. I see the same physical flaws as we all do but technically I think he has it. Jason Wilcox also name-checked him in our interview as Rovers' best youth product. So that'll do for me too.

 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

15 hours ago, davulsukur said:

Jury is deffo still out on Dolan (and JRC too really).

Problem with Dolan is, he burst onto the scene and was electric in those first couple of games. Steps overs, tricks, pace etc. Gave us something totally different. Problem is, I think he was quickly worked out by the defenders in the league after that. So his performances dropped. 

He went missing for a while but came back with less step overs but was a bit more productive.

Next season, hopefully he continues to improve but at the moment, the jury is out for me.

Dolan's performances dropped after the death of a close friend. Around this time he was left out of the team for compassionate reasons. This coincided with signing Elliott - which didn't help his path back into the team.

If nothing else  - I like his constant running off the ball - he showed when playing as a striker (when Armstrong was injured) how this helps the team as a whole. Hopefully he will continue to progress this season.

Edited June 6, 2021 by DavidMailsTightPerm

[Sparks Rover]

7 hours ago, AndyW said:

Don't want to add more fuel to the fire necessarily and not trying to fool Sparks' eyes, if you think Buckley isn't up to it, that's fine.

But Buckley is statistically a net positive to the side. Still a small sample in terms of minutes but to say we lose every time he starts is a bit far.

I genuinely do rate him FWIW. I see the same physical flaws as we all do but technically I think he has it. Jason Wilcox also name-checked him in our interview as Rovers' best youth product. So that'll do for me too.

 

Says something when Del is more valuable to the team and he's not played all.season...net positive? 😆 load of tosh that table mate.

Armstrong is well below most of the squad according to that....🤷‍♂️

Edited June 6, 2021 by Sparks Rover

[tomphil]

17 hours ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

Quite a lot in this I think. Having said that, I don't remember too much frustration with Cairney's performances per se, more that he wasn't used properly. 

 

Trouble with inconsistent players is that whereas sometimes it just takes the right environment to set them straight, sometimes players will just remain inconsistent. Hard to say which sort Rothwell is, although I'd definitely keep him if he's open to signing a new deal. Wonderful player to watch, and his end product is improving, which is easy to miss with the team as a whole underperforming. 

Cairney often got moaned at for being languid and lazy but the lad just wasn't a winger. It was another classic case of a manager trying to shoehorn people in and look after his favs.  Also hiding behind the 'development' line as in trying to get him to do different stuff.

That's the problem here and same under this manager, it rarely benefits the actual team. Cairney looked miles more busy in the middle yet he was still the same languid player. Just way more involved and comfortable and as a result it was better for the team. King was another one and Marshall looked far more comfortable when he finally landed as a right wing back.

Sadly we don't seem to employ managers or coaches with the right kind of nous. Bowyer was inexperienced, scared of his own shadow and Jason Lowe was his love child.

Mowbray is just on a permanent mix and match hiding behind 'development', just doing enough and keeping everyone happy.  Until the owners actually have a real desire to push on and employ the right staff we'll be stuck in this paralysis. 

[USABlue]

On 03/06/2021 at 08:39, Stuart said:

Let me save you all the worry. He’ll be sold for ‘undisclosed’.

11 or 12 mill is what we will sell him for with some big money on performance related add ons which will, of course, be unfulfilled.

[USABlue]

On 03/06/2021 at 06:35, Leonard Venkhater said:

It would be a great signing...but...he seems to be linked with several other clubs....

Even if we got him Mowbray would destroy him.

[47er]

13 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Mowbray is just on a permanent mix and match hiding behind 'development', just doing enough and keeping everyone happy.  

You think so? Season ticket sales will tell you if that's true.

[USABlue]

On 04/06/2021 at 09:06, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

On paper, this one should have been the easiest one to get done. Even so, a relief to see one of them get over the line.

So we have the crock signed up, well done.  Buggar me.