Summer transfer window 2021.

[USABlue]

On 04/06/2021 at 09:20, JoeH said:

You can now move JRC up to 2024. Still incredibly worrying the lack of players in our green square there. Grant Bradley Dack would be in there in a season without long-term injury, and perhaps Lewis Travis too - but only just. 

Not sure Travis would be keen to sign on if Mowbrsy still here.  Mowbray has set this lad backwards and shit all over him, another Nyambe.  Trav will be off first chance he gets and will go on to big things.

[USABlue]

21 hours ago, JoeH said:

Interesting to see the German 2nd division defender story has legs. Harvey Elliott rumours circulating also.

 

 

Harvey will be hurt by this, his love of Liverpool was shining through toward the end if the season.  He'll be gutted they don't hold on to him.  I think he had it in his head he had done enough to be involved with the scouser's first team squad.

[tomphil]

20 minutes ago, 47er said:

You think so? Season ticket sales will tell you if that's true.

Everyone inside the club, that's how he seems to see his priorities.

His hiding place will be far more exposed this coming season. Possible restrictions though could still gloss over the crowd issues.

[USABlue]

18 hours ago, bluebruce said:

hampered his confidence, and I more than suspect during his time out he was discouraged from playing with quite as freedom. You keep going with players who have built up momentum, especially very young ones. All sorts can happen to their mindset when you don't.

This, as well as Rothwell, Trav, Holtby and Nyambe all hurt by Mowbrays disdain for being exciting and forward thinking.  I can't stand Mowbray's way.  It looks like he will still be here for the start of the season causing me to be less interested in Rovers than I have been at any other time in my 50+ year career of watching us.

Edited June 6, 2021 by USABlue

[USABlue]

8 hours ago, AndyW said:

Don't want to add more fuel to the fire necessarily and not trying to fool Sparks' eyes, if you think Buckley isn't up to it, that's fine.

But Buckley is statistically a net positive to the side. Still a small sample in terms of minutes but to say we lose every time he starts is a bit far.

I genuinely do rate him FWIW. I see the same physical flaws as we all do but technically I think he has it. Jason Wilcox also name-checked him in our interview as Rovers' best youth product. So that'll do for me too.

 

I just don't know if I can trust a table of stats that has Amari Bell joint second top.

[Sparks Rover]

21 minutes ago, USABlue said:

Harvey will be hurt by this, his love of Liverpool was shining through toward the end if the season.  He'll be gutted they don't hold on to him.  I think he had it in his head he had done enough to be involved with the scouser's first team squad.

Nowhere near ready.  He should literally be dominating games for us if he's going to be in with a chance of getting in their match day squad.  If Oxlade Chamberlain never gets a game I'd gladly have him.here instead of HE.

I don't think he will progress to that level anyway.  

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, USABlue said:

I just don't know if I can trust a table of stats that has Amari Bell joint second top.

Crazy table.  Imagine posting that as credible evidence.

[USABlue]

Apologies for my plethora of posts, I just bave not been on in a while due to Mowbrayitis.  A debilitating condition which causes complete apathy in one's once beloved football team.  I am told the infection will continue, the only cure is Mowbray being replaced.

[TruRover]

I think a major thing to consider with young players is that they need regular games for them to really show their value. Wharton is a perfect example of this, when he first broke into the team last season he looked shaky and unconvincing, within a couple of games of playing consistently he looked like our best defender. For me Buckley hasn’t had that 5-6 game spell where he’s in the team every week, and if he did I have no doubt he would prove his doubters wrong. 
 

For me, there is no doubt he has tons of ability. The only thing that could stop him becoming a crucial player for us is Mowbray who has habit of mishandling players (Nyambe).

[Ewood Ace]

9 hours ago, AndyW said:

Don't want to add more fuel to the fire necessarily and not trying to fool Sparks' eyes, if you think Buckley isn't up to it, that's fine.

But Buckley is statistically a net positive to the side. Still a small sample in terms of minutes but to say we lose every time he starts is a bit far.

I genuinely do rate him FWIW. I see the same physical flaws as we all do but technically I think he has it. Jason Wilcox also name-checked him in our interview as Rovers' best youth product. So that'll do for me too.

 

Lies, damned lies and statistics. This is the problem when you pay more attention to a spreadsheet than what actually happens on the pitch. The biggest 'net positive' to our side has been Adam Armstrong without him we would be preparing for a new season in League 1 yet if you were to believe this spreadsheet he's been one of the least 'positive' players for the side.

As for Buckley he is too lightweight, he's nearly 22 but to watch him on the pitch you'd think he was still a schoolboy. There's a lot of players like Buckley down in the non League pyramid who have come from good academies are very comfortable on the ball given time and space but when the physical side of the game is needed tend to struggle to make an impact. I wouldn't be at all surprised if non-league is where Buckley ends up, I really struggle to see him having a successful career anywhere above League 2. 

[Sparks Rover]

26 minutes ago, TruRover said:

For me Buckley hasn’t had that 5-6 game spell where he’s in the team every week,

Trouble is, whenever he has played, from the beginning or off the bench, nobody will have said.."ooh, that lads got to play again he really took his opportunity.."

He dawdles about casually, is easy to knock off the ball, never seen him head the ball....OK, he plays a nice pass every now and again, but so do the ok players on Soccer Aid...

I thought Butterworth did that in a game a couple of seasons ago and he got injured...God knows what happened to him...looked miles ahead of Buckley.

[Angry_Pirate]

1 hour ago, USABlue said:

Even if we got him Mowbray would destroy him.

100%.

People say "look at how he coached Dack and Armstrong though".

Dack was L1 player of the year (at a rubbish Gillingham) before Mowbray got him and always looked a strong player.

Armstong, came from a PL academy, and yeah he flopped at Bolton (who were rock bottom btw) and you can argue if you choose to (though lightning pace helps... and you can't coach pace).

What you can't argue:

Go online and watch the following two Ewood matches:

Travis in the WBA 2-0 and Rothwell in the Derby 1-0.

Both players were getting one of their first starts for the club (after MONTHS of fans wanting it), both players were electric, energetic and easy MOTM. That form continued for a period of time too.

Now look at how both play after 2 years of additional Mowbray/Venus/Lowe. Chalk and cheese.

Mowbray and his team are detrimental to player development. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Angry_Pirate

[Sparks Rover]

2 minutes ago, Angry_Pirate said:

100%.

People say "look at how he coached Dack and Armstrong though".

Dack was L1 player of the year (at a rubbish Gillingham) before Mowbray got him and always looked a strong player.

Armstong, came from a PL academy, and yeah he flopped at Bolton (who were rock bottom btw) and you can argue if you choose to (though lightning pace helps... and you can't coach pace).

What you can't argue:

Go online and watch the following two Ewood matches:

Travis in the WBA 2-0 and Rothwell in the Derby 1-0.

Both players were getting one of their first starts for the club (after MONTHS of fans wanting it), both players were electric, energetic and easy MOTM. Now look at how both play after 2 years of additional Mowbray/Venus/Lowe. Chalk and cheese.

Mowbray and his team are detrimental to player development. 

Bravo 👏👏

[Ulrich]

2 hours ago, USABlue said:

Apologies for my plethora of posts, I just bave not been on in a while due to Mowbrayitis.  A debilitating condition which causes complete apathy in one's once beloved football team.  I am told the infection will continue, the only cure is Mowbray being replaced.

It's called Venkymitosis, death through detachment of the heart 💓.  

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, TruRover said:

I think a major thing to consider with young players is that they need regular games for them to really show their value. Wharton is a perfect example of this, when he first broke into the team last season he looked shaky and unconvincing, within a couple of games of playing consistently he looked like our best defender. For me Buckley hasn’t had that 5-6 game spell where he’s in the team every week, and if he did I have no doubt he would prove his doubters wrong. 
 

For me, there is no doubt he has tons of ability. The only thing that could stop him becoming a crucial player for us is Mowbray who has habit of mishandling players (Nyambe).

Putting them in then whipping them out according to opposition does them no favours that's for sure. If you are going to be a good player you need to play against all opposition. It goes against the development tagline thrown around here when he does that.

How can they develop only being chucked in against certain teams ?  They need to play in spells if they can cope with it. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Lies, damned lies and statistics. This is the problem when you pay more attention to a spreadsheet than what actually happens on the pitch. The biggest 'net positive' to our side has been Adam Armstrong without him we would be preparing for a new season in League 1 yet if you were to believe this spreadsheet he's been one of the least 'positive' players for the side.

As for Buckley he is too lightweight, he's nearly 22 but to watch him on the pitch you'd think he was still a schoolboy. There's a lot of players like Buckley down in the non League pyramid who have come from good academies are very comfortable on the ball given time and space but when the physical side of the game is needed tend to struggle to make an impact. I wouldn't be at all surprised if non-league is where Buckley ends up, I really struggle to see him having a successful career anywhere above League 2. 

Simple question for both yourself and @Sparks Rover. What do you think Andy W’s table shows/is a calculation of?

If you don’t know the answer, I find your vigorous response to the table a little odd.

[rigger]

I like tables. I like chairs more. 

[briansol]

I wonder how far Rovers scouting reach. Here in Norway, there haven't been many over the last decade I would suggested for Rovers, but here is one if anybody from Rovers are reading:

Sivert Mannsverk of Sogndal (Second tier). Made captain last season at only 18 and won player of the year for the whole league. Powerhouse midfielder who dominates the midfield physically with excellent passing range. Destined for greater things and within our budget.

Likely career path is being picked up by one of the bigger clubs in Norway (Molde, Rosenborg) and sold on in couple of year for millions of pounds.

 

 

[Ewood Ace]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Simple question for both yourself and @Sparks Rover. What do you think Andy W’s table shows/is a calculation of?

If you don’t know the answer, I find your vigorous response to the table a little odd.

To quote the person who posted the table it is a table of players' "net positive to the side". And to me a table of who has had a 'net positive to the side' which has Adam Armstrong towards the bottom end is quite frankly laughable, without him we would have been relegated yet if you were to believe that table you would think that the likes of Bell, Williams, Chapman, Davenport, Downing, Brereton, Wharton, Buckley etc outperformed him.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Ewood Ace

[rigger]

10 minutes ago, briansol said:

I wonder how far Rovers scouting reach. Here in Norway, there haven't been many over the last decade I would suggested for Rovers, but here is one if anybody from Rovers are reading:

Sivert Mannsverk of Sogndal (Second tier). Made captain last season at only 18 and won player of the year for the whole league. Powerhouse midfielder who dominates the midfield physically with excellent passing range. Destined for greater things and within our budget.

Likely career path is being picked up by one of the bigger clubs in Norway (Molde, Rosenborg) and sold on in couple of year for millions of pounds.

 

 

From those clips a lot of his game is sliding tackles. in England at the moment most of those will be given as fouls.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Simple question for both yourself and @Sparks Rover. What do you think Andy W’s table shows/is a calculation of?

If you don’t know the answer, I find your vigorous response to the table a little odd.

Explain it Joe, so we can understand how Buckley is more important to us than Armstrong ......we are obviously missing something. 

Cheers 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Sparks Rover

[AllRoverAsia]

6 hours ago, USABlue said:

Apologies for my plethora of posts, I just bave not been on in a while due to Mowbrayitis.  A debilitating condition which causes complete apathy in one's once beloved football team.  I am told the infection will continue, the only cure is Mowbray being replaced.

I have a severe form of it and trying not to post as it forces the use of profanities.

I see mention of a 'Table' in others posts which I did see and, as I have no shame - it made no fucking sense to me, so if some clever sod wants to enlighten please do so and stop your pissing contest.

Edited June 6, 2021 by AllRoverAsia

[AndyW]

Apologies to all, this is my fault for plonking a table down without explaining it's meaning.

It's not my table, it's direct from fbref which uses Statsbomb data. The argument was around whether we won with Buckley in the team. All that table is showing is that we have a positive goal difference in the time that he has played. 

Whilst JB has been on the pitch we have scored 15 and conceded 10 in 2020/21. But, as the table shows, the vast majority of our players have a net positive (because we had a positive goal difference across the season). JBs ratio is 10th best in the squad. 

That table DOESN'T SHOW how good players are. It doesn't show Armstrong is poor for the team whilst JRC is brilliant.

Sometimes people do infer that, but I can't have it. As has been said before, football is a chaotic, low-margin game with 22 players on the pitch. To suggest that the presence of one player makes a telling difference is (for the most part) debatable. Even a player as influential as Dack or Travis. This was one of the problems with Mowbray's arguments last year about them making coming back and making a huge difference.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

To quote the person who posted the table it is a table of players' "net positive to the side". And to me a table of who has had a 'net positive to the side' which has Adam Armstrong towards the bottom end is quite frankly laughable, without him we would have been relegated yet if you were to believe that table you would think that the likes of Bell, Williams, Chapman, Davenport, Downing, Brereton, Wharton, Buckley etc outperformed him.

Could you answer the question?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

Explain it Joe, so we can understand how Buckley is more important to us than Armstrong ......we are obviously missing something. 

Cheers 

At least this response admits that you aren't actually aware as to what this table shows. How can you be against something if you don't know what it is?