Football Terminology

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Claytons Left Boot said:

Football clubs always used to be referred to in a plural sense rather than in a singular one.

- Blackburn Rovers ARE situated in Lancashire

- THEY are one of the oldest clubs in the league

- WE are the most successful town club in England

Not sure if it’s because of foreign players or managers who, in their own language, refer to clubs as is/it etc. but a recent trend has been for increasing instances of references to clubs in the singular.

- Blackburn Rovers IS situated in Lancashire

- It is one of the oldest clubs in the league

- It is the most successful town club in England

I notice these things 🙂 

People seem to forget that football clubs are still clubs and not just a company.

Fans/people are bloody important!!

[Mattyblue]

According to Paul Hirst in the Sunday Times, City lost because Gundogan was the ‘sole pivot’.

You idiot, Pep!

Edited May 30, 2021 by Mattyblue

[Blue blood]

On 28/05/2021 at 10:34, tomphil said:

Isn't this type of thing just going along with this crazy time in the world in general.  Just inventing things to push new narratives because they want to move away from the old ones ?

Don't know how to though because basically you cant as it's still the same ! 

So a bit like re-writing history just to suit the attempted reset they just alter a few things because this era allows that. Then it quickly becomes fact and things couldn't exist as they are without it. Some think football was invented in 1992, future generations will think it was invented in 2021.

I think this hits the nail on the head. 

For years they have criticised defensive tactics, two banks of four, defending deep. Now when this sort of stuff is more in fashion they have backed themselves into a corner. They can't champion what they criticised and so new terminology needs to be invented. 

[tomphil]

17 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

I think this hits the nail on the head. 

For years they have criticised defensive tactics, two banks of four, defending deep. Now when this sort of stuff is more in fashion they have backed themselves into a corner. They can't champion what they criticised and so new terminology needs to be invented. 

Exactly what it is, a new narrative for the same stuff thats been happening for decades. 

How long before these draws start getting decided on possession stats or something ?  Mind you you'd be forgiven for thinking we are ahead of the curve on that one.

[Mattyblue]

Declan Rice ‘looks established as the first choice midfield pivot’ according to today’s Times.

So ‘defensive’ or ‘holding’ midfielder are expunged from the coaching badges course now, I take it? 

Will keep consultants at St George’s Park in work, I suppose.
 

 

[roversfan99]

Another one I have seen lately is "vertical passing."

[bazza]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Another one I have seen lately is "vertical passing."

Colin Hendry was good at that.

[Ianrally]

On 28/05/2021 at 19:47, jim mk2 said:

 

I notice them too

Funnily enough, the Times style guide says football clubs are always singular and teams plural, which I've always adhered to

Had a "robust" conversation with a US friend recently who insisted it was the other way round

Why would you waste your breath explaining English to a US citizen? They don’t speak English nor can they spell English words. 
Mind you some of our top pundits can’t speak grammatical English either. “They done well” or “The boy done well”

Give me strength!!

[bazza]

On 28/05/2021 at 19:44, jim mk2 said:

 

They look like Americanisms to me .......... to be resisted at all costs

 

For sure, Buddy.

[rigger]

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Another one I have seen lately is "vertical passing."

John MacNamee could vertical pass a centre forward

Edited June 3, 2021 by rigger

[jim mk2]

26 minutes ago, rigger said:

John MacNamee could vertical pass a center forward

....or even a centre forward

[riverholmes]

I don't know if I mind the terminology too much. I suppose some of it is influence from abroad, where, in some places, tactical analysis and strategy is taken very seriously. Part, is probably the application of science and data analysis into football and combine that with the sheer volume of football analysis we have now.

I see some improvement in pundit analysis from the days of Alan Hansen and Alan Shearer earning lucrative sums for reclining in their chair and repeating the words, "passion, strength, desire, determination" and/or "absolute disgrace - no passion, no strength, no desire, no determination" and other abstract nouns ad nauseum, without any meaningful analysis.

Punditry is still, often, a game of platitudes and tautology, but, it does seem that they try a little more these days. I think the breakthrough of female pundits will force the closed shop to up their game and, perhaps, fan channels too. Inclusion of football journalists in punditry is positive, in my opinion too, as they sometimes offer a different perspective. All in all, however, part of me does see the absurdity of men sitting around and getting paid lucratively for analysing what is a game. But we all have our follies...

What I find problematic is the lack of fundamental criticism of the game by pundits - analysis of the economic inequality and the exploitation of fans and so on. I think that should be in every discussion. No serious discussion of Chelsea's Champions League success should pass without reference to the fact that that club's leaders literally sought a takeover of the European professional game. Thomas Tuchel, now being revered, hinted his acquiescence by saying that he wanted to compete in the best tournament/competition, whatever that might be, when asked about the Super League. 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by riverholmes

[roversfan99]

"Ball recyclers" and "verticality" added to the phrasebook of unnecessary nonsense.

[AllRoverAsia]

Verticality is the wrong word to use for hoofball.

It may be appropriate to cocks at a pinch and if lying down but I doubt even the Spanish can play football whilst shagging.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

"Ball recyclers" and "verticality" added to the phrasebook of unnecessary nonsense.

I suppose it could be seen as unnecessary. You go into the training ground and listen to the managers and the coaches talk though and a lot of the words being thrown around this thread will be heard there. I agree though - I don't think this kind of jargon over-usage in the wider world of football is particularly needed.

[roversfan99]

34 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I suppose it could be seen as unnecessary. You go into the training ground and listen to the managers and the coaches talk though and a lot of the words being thrown around this thread will be heard there. I agree though - I don't think this kind of jargon over-usage in the wider world of football is particularly needed.

We could speculate as to what is said on the training ground but in the main amongst supporters, this sort of nonsense tends to be used to try and appear more knowledgeable. Agree with your last sentence for sure, jargon indeed.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

this sort of nonsense tends to be used to try and appear more knowledgeable

By supporters and perhaps pundits, I think I agree. But when these terms are used within clubs I think they're using them to try and keep up with European football lingo more than anything - I don't think it's too harmful.

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, JoeH said:

By supporters and perhaps pundits, I think I agree. But when these terms are used within clubs I think they're using them to try and keep up with European football lingo more than anything - I don't think it's too harmful.

I suspect that at least some of them are created by the aforementioned pundits and supporters and never used within the game.

[LDRover]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

"Ball recyclers" and "verticality" added to the phrasebook of unnecessary nonsense.

Stopped taking him seriously after reading him say Spain need Adama Traore as an option. Christ.

[roversfan99]

Just now, LDRover said:

Stopped taking him seriously after reading him say Spain need Adama Traore as an option. Christ.

He is very much an amateur "journalist" who tries to cover the whole of the football league with clearly a very limited knowledge of individual clubs, as I suppose it is difficult not to have if you are trying to be an expert on 72 clubs, so he covers that up with the sort of terminology littered within this thread to seem like he knows what he is talking about.

Caused a stir the other week when he dismissed Armstrong and said that we should sell him for 10m and reinvest, unaware that he clearly could fetch more of a fee and that a big chunk will go to Newcastle.

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I suspect that at least some of them are created by the aforementioned pundits and supporters and never used within the game.

Probably yes

[Dave S]

Recycle the ball - Soccer Coach Weekly

I hope this link works.

I always thought ball recycling was an old rugby term.

Simply win the ball back and pass it along the back line. Lose it win it back and repeat.

Here we have soccer coaching with 'servers'

[Mattyblue]

‘Progressive carries’ … Harlequins sniffing around Rice, I take it?

 

[James No.22]

Surprised that 'expected threat' (xT) has not been brought up. It supposedly measures 'how a player increases the chance of scoring a goal, through passing or carrying the ball'.

https://www.news9live.com/sports/football/new-parameter-to-measure-goal-scoring-threat-expected-threat-xt-62110.html

 It's a shockingly bad statistic when you see some of the top names on the following list - average to bad players players like Odegaard, Fred and Ceballos.

The statistic is so bad that the two different sources above have different lists for the 2020-21 Premier League season. If I'm missing something obvious, please tell me...

Edited August 26, 2021 by James No.22

[windymiller7]

5 hours ago, James No.22 said:

Surprised that 'expected threat' (xT) has not been brought up. It supposedly measures 'how a player increases the chance of scoring a goal, through passing or carrying the ball'.

https://www.news9live.com/sports/football/new-parameter-to-measure-goal-scoring-threat-expected-threat-xt-62110.html

 It's a shockingly bad statistic when you see some of the top names on the following list - average to bad players players like Odegaard, Fred and Ceballos.

The statistic is so bad that the two different sources above have different lists for the 2020-21 Premier League season. If I'm missing something obvious, please tell me...

Dear God! Who dreams these up?

So based on the above, Jordan Henderson, Curtis Jones & Thiago all increase a team's chance of scoring a goal more than Jack Grealish? 🤯

Someone should let Pep know, he could've bought all 3 of them and still had change from £100m! 😂

Edited August 26, 2021 by windymiller7