Season Tickets (inc. Renewal Poll)

[Hannoverover]

Health and freedom debate aside, I was assuming that more fans would be willing to attend with the passports than would be lost due to them?  I'm assuming a certain % of the population will still want to join in but be cautious too.

It would be a mess if Ewood had to close again over winter.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Hannoverover

[Stuart]

On 25/07/2021 at 19:22, Hannoverover said:

Health and freedom debate aside, I was assuming that more fans would be willing to attend with the passports than would be lost due to them?  I'm assuming a certain % of the population will still want to join in but be cautious too.

It would be a mess if Ewood had to close again over winter.

That’s a real strawman. (Also, I can’t believe your previous post - it’s “only” a QR code - you really need to read up on your history).

Don’t introduce passports at all. Which fans are going to refuse to attend if they aren’t? You are advocating relegating unvaccinated people to second class citizens and you seem to just see them as an expendable minority.

Children won’t have them. Why does an 18yo need a jab (and evidence of such) and their 17yo mate doesn’t? Is the latter less of a risk?

Your arguments are built on sand considering even with a jab and a passport you can still carry and pass on the virus.

If I don’t have a vaccine it doesn’t make any difference to you - as long as you’ve had yours.

I really worry about the direction of the world under Gen Z.

[K-Hod]

On 25/07/2021 at 19:34, Stuart said:

That’s a real strawman. (Also, I can’t believe your previous post - it’s “only” a QR code - you really need to read up on your history).

Don’t introduce passports at all. Which fans are going to refuse to attend if they aren’t? You are advocating relegating unvaccinated people to second class citizens and you seem to just see them as an expendable minority.

Children won’t have them. Why does an 18yo need a jab (and evidence of such) and their 17yo mate doesn’t? Is the latter less of a risk?

Your arguments are built on sand considering even with a jab and a passport you can still carry and pass on the virus.

If I don’t have a vaccine it doesn’t make any difference to you - as long as you’ve had yours.

I really worry about the direction of the world under Gen Z.

Couldn’t the vaccinated person still be a carrier and pass it on to the unvaccinated person, though? Therefore potentially causing the associated problems?

[Stuart]

On 25/07/2021 at 19:37, K-Hod said:

Couldn’t the vaccinated person still be a carrier and pass it on to the unvaccinated person, though? Therefore potentially causing the associated problems?

That’s precisely my point. Vaccinated or not it makes no difference. Hence passports are pointless from a health perspective.

At this point everyone likely to become ill (barring vulnerable outliers) has been offered at least one vaccine. If they have chosen not to have one then it is their right and their choice.

As you point out, if a vaccinated person can carry and pass on the virus, why should they be allowed to go to a football match or to a night club or to a cinema, and an unvaccinated person (through choice) not be allowed to. Effectively becoming an outcast.

[K-Hod]

On 25/07/2021 at 19:48, Stuart said:

That’s precisely my point. Vaccinated or not it makes no difference. Hence passports are pointless from a health perspective.

At this point everyone likely to become ill (barring vulnerable outliers) has been offered at least one vaccine. If they have chosen not to have one then it is their right and their choice.

As you point out, if a vaccinated person can carry and pass on the virus, why should they be allowed to go to a football match or to a night club or to a cinema, and an unvaccinated person (through choice) not be allowed to. Effectively becoming an outcast.

Apologies if I wasn’t clear enough, but I’m sure anyone that has been vaccinated would rather catch Covid, than someone that hasn’t. I imagine their experience wouldn’t be as bad, owing to the protection the vaccine would provide.

That’s what I was driving at.

[Hannoverover]

On 25/07/2021 at 20:34, Stuart said:

That’s a real strawman. (Also, I can’t believe your previous post - it’s “only” a QR code - you really need to read up on your history).

Don’t introduce passports at all. Which fans are going to refuse to attend if they aren’t? You are advocating relegating unvaccinated people to second class citizens and you seem to just see them as an expendable minority.

Children won’t have them. Why does an 18yo need a jab (and evidence of such) and their 17yo mate doesn’t? Is the latter less of a risk?

Your arguments are built on sand considering even with a jab and a passport you can still carry and pass on the virus.

If I don’t have a vaccine it doesn’t make any difference to you - as long as you’ve had yours.

I really worry about the direction of the world under Gen Z.

I'm English (not that it makes a difference), but yes like with all technology it needs carefully regulating by an independent body.

The idea is that by grouping vaccinated people together, if/when one is infected, this person has has a lower chance of passing it on to their neighbour and their neighbour has a lower chance of becoming infected and subsequently passing it on through their community.

 

I've just read that the plan is to only allow vaccinated people into stadiums. I disagree with this and I would also allow recently tested people in too. This would allow people who don't want to be vaccinated for whatever reason the chance to attend.

[rigger]

On 25/07/2021 at 17:31, Hannoverover said:

you are 100% correct, it shouldn't, but in an ongoing pandemic it's probably the best way to have maximum attendances. Ability to take part is dependent on being either not infected or vaccinated. I agree with the slippery slope and in theory a flu pandemic (last one was 1918) could Iin theory lead to similar actions- although hopefully not!

The current vaccines are working brilliantly against the current variants. I think you are 66% less likely to become infected and roughly the same in infecting someone else. 

True, however if everyone is vaccinated (or approx 90% of society with SARS-CoV-2) then the chain will be broken. I agree vaccination should be a personal choice.

 

Scientifically it makes sense, it's just what each society and country wants to do.

Why doesn't everyone take some personal responsability. Get the vaccine, get a passport, go to whatever events you want.

[Stuart]

On 25/07/2021 at 19:50, K-Hod said:

Apologies if I wasn’t clear enough, but I’m sure anyone that has been vaccinated would rather catch Covid, than someone that hasn’t. I imagine their experience wouldn’t be as bad, owing to the protection the vaccine would provide.

That’s what I was driving at.

So they have a choice to have the vaccine or stay away from venues. If they choose not to have one or to go out unvaccinated then that’s up to them. However they should NOT be excluded from society - which is what vaccine passports will do.

[rigger]

On 25/07/2021 at 20:12, Stuart said:

So they have a choice to have the vaccine or stay away from venues. If they choose not to have one or to go out unvaccinated then that’s up to them. However they should NOT be excluded from society - which is what vaccine passports will do.

That theory should apply to people who want to drink and drive.

[Stuart]

On 25/07/2021 at 20:11, rigger said:

Why doesn't everyone take some personal responsability. Get the vaccine, get a passport, go to whatever events you want.

That isn’t “personal responsibility”.

That’s “just fucking do are you’re told”.

Personal responsibility is accepting that “if you get ill because you’ve not been vaccinated, don’t expect any sympathy”. That’s an entirely reasonable response.

Now that the unvaccinated are in the minority the NHS won’t be overwhelmed so let’s just all crack on.

[Stuart]

On 25/07/2021 at 20:16, rigger said:

That theory should apply to people who want to drink and drive.

Stupid example.

The equivalent response to that would be stop anyone who drinks alcohol from owning a car and having daily breathalysers before anyone gets behind the wheel.

[rigger]

On 25/07/2021 at 20:17, Stuart said:

That isn’t “personal responsibility”.

That’s “just fucking do are you’re told”.

Personal responsibility is accepting that “if you get ill because you’ve not been vaccinated, don’t expect any sympathy”. That’s an entirely reasonable response.

Now that the unvaccinated are in the minority the NHS won’t be overwhelmed so let’s just all crack on.

Or being part of a society

[rigger]

On 25/07/2021 at 20:19, Stuart said:

Stupid example.

The equivalent response to that would be stop anyone who drinks alcohol from owning a car and having daily breathalysers before anyone gets behind the wheel.

If that stopped deaths would that be a bad thing

[Darrenbot]

On 25/07/2021 at 20:19, Stuart said:

Stupid example.

The equivalent response to that would be stop anyone who drinks alcohol from owning a car and having daily breathalysers before anyone gets behind the wheel.

 

On 25/07/2021 at 20:17, Stuart said:

That isn’t “personal responsibility”.

That’s “just fucking do are you’re told”.

Personal responsibility is accepting that “if you get ill because you’ve not been vaccinated, don’t expect any sympathy”. That’s an entirely reasonable response.

Now that the unvaccinated are in the minority the NHS won’t be overwhelmed so let’s just all crack on.

The NHS wont be overwhelmed you say,tell that to people who are having cancer treatments and operations delayed because the NHS has to deal with covid patients.

[Stuart]

On 25/07/2021 at 20:20, rigger said:

If that stopped deaths would that be a bad thing

So you don’t believe in personal responsibility after all?

The idea that we should prevent anyone who ever drinks alcohol from owning a car is absurd.

But in any case, your whole emotive analogy is off - maybe deliberately so.

Read back through my posts and you’ll see why.

[Wheelton Blue]

Getting the vaccine not only reduces the chances of you getting infected, it also reduces the likelihood of you infecting someone else.

I call that personal responsibility.

These liberal 'I'll do what I want types' can go ahead and do what they want, we live in a democratic society after all. But don't come anywhere near me or my at-risk family, thanks all the same.

[rigger]

On 25/07/2021 at 20:51, Stuart said:

So you don’t believe in personal responsibility after all?

The idea that we should prevent anyone who ever drinks alcohol from owning a car is absurd.

But in any case, your whole emotive analogy is off - maybe deliberately so.

Read back through my posts and you’ll see why.

I can't be arsed

[tomphil]

Unsurprisingly i was one of the ones who would say similar to above. Get vaccinated and stop moaning or take your chances but don't expect special treatment and spoil things for everyone else.

My other half didn't want it so she got my response and similar from others. That was 9 weeks ago and she hasn't worked since and spent 10 days in hospital on a drip and having anti blood clotting injections etc.

So there is good reason to consider if you want it or not. Forcing the issue isn't the way forwards just let people decide for themselves and don't punish, exclude or penalize anybody.

 

[Stuart]

On 25/07/2021 at 21:37, tomphil said:

Unsurprisingly i was one of the ones who would say similar to above. Get vaccinated and stop moaning or take your chances but don't expect special treatment and spoil things for everyone else.

My other half didn't want it so she got my response and similar from others. That was 9 weeks ago and she hasn't worked since and spent 10 days in hospital on a drip and having anti blood clotting injections etc.

So there is good reason to consider if you want it or not. Forcing the issue isn't the way forwards just let people decide for themselves and don't punish, exclude or penalize anybody.

 

Shit, man. Hope your missus is ok.

[tomphil]

On 25/07/2021 at 21:53, Stuart said:

Shit, man. Hope your missus is ok.

Cheers, she's better than she was but 50% off being back to normal its been a strange experience. She can't have the second dose as the reaction was so severe so she will have to have some kind of certificate or exemption if these hard line passport plans go through on all sorts.

She doesn't go to football or nightclubbing so that's not a problem. What we don't need though is people falling through the cracks through no fault of their own.

[RevidgeBlue]

On 25/07/2021 at 20:11, rigger said:

Why doesn't everyone take some personal responsability. Get the vaccine, get a passport, go to whatever events you want.

If you have the vaccine then you're protected (in theory).

So then why is it any skin off your nose or anyone else who's double jabbed whether or not anyone else has the vaccine or not?

The missus and myself didn't really want the jabs but decided to have them because we didn't want any jobsworths telling us we couldn't go in a Pub or restaurant or (predictably now) a football match.

We got Covid anyway, the missus who'd had two jabs was quite a bit worse than myself who'd had one jab at that point. So we feel it's an absolute waste of time from an immunisation standpoint.

Having or not having the vaccine should be entirely a matter of personal choice and no-one should be looked down upon or excluded from Society because of it.

Anyhow - back to season ticket sales hopefully.

[Dreams of 1995]

On 25/07/2021 at 19:34, Stuart said:

That’s a real strawman. (Also, I can’t believe your previous post - it’s “only” a QR code - you really need to read up on your history).

Don’t introduce passports at all. Which fans are going to refuse to attend if they aren’t? You are advocating relegating unvaccinated people to second class citizens and you seem to just see them as an expendable minority.

Children won’t have them. Why does an 18yo need a jab (and evidence of such) and their 17yo mate doesn’t? Is the latter less of a risk?

Your arguments are built on sand considering even with a jab and a passport you can still carry and pass on the virus.

If I don’t have a vaccine it doesn’t make any difference to you - as long as you’ve had yours.

I really worry about the direction of the world under Gen Z.

What does generation have to do with this debate? 😄 The people making these decisions aren’t “Gen Z” - not that it makes a difference 

I don’t think the vaccine passports will happen. It seems too intrusive. 
 

 

[CheshireRover]

On 25/07/2021 at 20:20, rigger said:

If that stopped deaths would that be a bad thing

You can’t stop death, it is a natural part of life, and as the world evolves, causes of death are changing. 

In no way am I saying that drink driving is acceptable, it’s abhorrent, especially when alcohol free lager and gin exist and taste the same, however your point just leads to more open ended options.
 

We can stop deaths from many different things by locking ourselves away for eternity, but what’s the point? I’d rather a shorter life lived, than live until the age of 100 and be bored senseless for the next 75 years. I’m not sure too many would argue against that.

Many scientists & politicians have God complexes, which has resulted in them all wanting to be the ones who change the course of humanity for longer lives, but they completely disregard all other factors involved in living a life, and focus purely on your body having oxygen and blood coursing through your veins.

Sorry for the rant, and not a dig at you, just been building up a while clearly!

[Stuart]

On 25/07/2021 at 21:04, Wheelton Blue said:

Getting the vaccine not only reduces the chances of you getting infected, it also reduces the likelihood of you infecting someone else.

I call that personal responsibility.

These liberal 'I'll do what I want types' can go ahead and do what they want, we live in a democratic society after all. But don't come anywhere near me or my at-risk family, thanks all the same.

Sources please, including the percentage reductions.

Also, you are right, we do live in a democratic society, where people have rights. These are being taken away so as to enforce the governments will onto the people they serve. A will that seems to change every five minutes. Vaccine passports were discussed in March in parliament, and all of the reasons against them remain valid.

Meanwhile, the long term effects of the vaccine are unknown. Everyone who has it is taking a personal risk. The younger you are, the greater that risk is. For these young people the risks may even be greater than the virus itself. We don’t know. This vaccine won’t be fully FDA approved for at least 6 months while data is gathered to ensure safety. Until then how can this be mandated? Blackmailing young people on this basis, and telling them they can’t have a social life, and even higher education, is immoral. Let’s have the safety confirmed and then it’s a different discussion.

This is a very emotive topic but we need to remain objective and be really clear about what is being asked of people and why. Right now the perceived benefits are not factual but based on a climate of fear and a government without an exit strategy who are backed into a corner, and are extorting young people into taking risks which could affect them later in life.

Lest we forget, Thalidomide was once believed to be completely safe…

[Wheelton Blue]

On 26/07/2021 at 12:15, Stuart said:

Sources please, including the percentage reductions.

 

Try the World Health Organisation, for starters.