Championship 21/22

[JHRover]

7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Apart from the 2 loans of Elliott and THB we won't miss any of them. 

Would you have kept any of the out of contract players then and why? I'm pleased we let the lot go and we can rebuild through a few signings and playing more of up and coming players like JRC, Dolan, Carter, etc. 

And if Nyambe, Rothwell and Armstrong won't sign new contracts then I would sell them and buy replacements. Here are one suggestion for each position. 

Right back. Dion Sanderson. Impressed me at Cardiff during his loan spell there. 

Centre midfielder. Joe Powell.  

Striker. Cauley Woodrow from Barnsley. Been impressed by him for the past 2 seasons. 

I think you are missing the point I was trying to make.

I'm not interested in how good or bad those leaving are or were. I'm interested in the fact that we are facing huge obstacles in recruiting new players ahead of the new season, and how that challenge could have been reduced by not relying so much on loans (that now need replacing) or not allowing so many players to be out of contract all at once. 

The fact remains that those senior squad members have left the club, and will therefore need replacing. 

To replace that number of players is a tricky question at the best of times. To do it in a pandemic, with Brexit, with no money from the owners, clueless management, and then to top it all off the extra hurdle of League embargo or restrictions makes it extremely difficult.

The Club knew all the above was happening, so if it is the case that we are embargoed or heavily restricted on what we can do then I think the question that needs asking it why this has happened. We'd have been better keeping some of those out of contract (admittedly many of them not particularly good) than having a mass exodus that we can't overcome.

Where do you think the money is coming from to persuade Barnsley to sell one of their best players? 

[Bigdoggsteel]

54 minutes ago, TheRoversReturn said:

Suppose if they're including loan players then it's getting close to that number.

Elliot + Harwood Bellis + Douglas + Branthwhaite + Bell + Holtby + Downing + Evans + Bennett = 9. 

EDIT - Forgot Trybull, there's your ten. 

Ok ,so saying 10 is spin. As he said we "allowed 10 to depart" 

 @JHRover are you suggesting we should have locked Elliott and THB up in the basement of Brockhall and not allowed them to leave? Pretty sure that's kidnapping. 

[JHRover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ok ,so saying 10 is spin. As he said we "allowed 10 to depart" 

 @JHRover are you suggesting we should have locked Elliott and THB up in the basement of Brockhall and not allowed them to leave? Pretty sure that's kidnapping. 

No not quite that extreme. Through the course of last season we knew they were on loan and knew two very important elements of the side - creatively and defensively - were temporary patch ups with high likelihood both would need replacing - in addition to several others - this summer whilst still dealing with all the other issues at present.

If we'd have signed two players instead last summer - on 3 or 4 year deals - we wouldn't need to sign anyone to replace them this summer, so any restrictions imposed by the League would be of much less impact. Or we would get a hefty transfer fee to reinvest/offset to achieve compliance.

Armstrong should be the silver bullet for FFP - we should be getting £20 million+ which should smash FFP out of the park for the forseeable. Sadly more poor planning means we will be forced to sell him for much less which will have minimal impact on FFP accounts.

I see the Telegraph are starting with the suggestion that Armstrong hasn't signed a contract offer from Rovers.

Anyone actually believe there's a suitable offer on the table for him to stay?

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I'm not interested in how good or bad those leaving are or were. I'm interested in the fact that we are facing huge obstacles in recruiting new players ahead of the new season, and how that challenge could have been reduced by not relying so much on loans (that now need replacing) or not allowing so many players to be out of contract all at once. 

The fact remains that those senior squad members have left the club, and will therefore need replacing. 

No wonder you aren't interested cos you would keep players who need to leave and replace them. 

We only need 4/5 signings this summer and no more. left side wide player, centre midfielder, back up left back and centre back depending on Ayala fitness issues. 

The Current Squad. 

GK- Kaminski, Pears, Stergiakis, Eastham

RB- Nyambe, Pike

CB, Lenihan, Ayala, Carter, Wharton, possible new signjng

LB - Pickering, back up left back

CM- Travis, Buckley, Davenport, Johnson, Rothwell, new DM signing

RW- JRC, Dolan

LW- New signing, Chapman

ST- Armstrong(or his replacement), Gallagher, Brereton, Vale, McBride

So do we need any more than 4 or 5 signings?

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Where do you think the money is coming from to persuade Barnsley to sell one of their best players? 

Did I not just say we have sell Armstrong if he won't sign a new contract and use that money for replacement. I named who I would be targeting. 

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

We'd have been better keeping some of those out of contract (admittedly many of them not particularly good) than having a mass exodus that we can't overcome.

I disagree with that. Why keep Bennett or Evans when we need to move on from them. No point keeping them at all. apart from waste money on wages. 

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I see the Telegraph are starting with the suggestion that Armstrong hasn't signed a contract offer from Rovers.

Anyone actually believe there's a suitable offer on the table for him to stay?

Why do constant believe we haven't JH? any story from anyone is another conspiracy theory from you. 

[Ewood Ace]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

No wonder you aren't interested cos you would keep players who need to leave and replace them. 

We only need 4/5 signings this summer and no more. left side wide player, centre midfielder, back up left back and centre back depending on Ayala fitness issues. 

The Current Squad. 

GK- Kaminski, Pears, Stergiakis, Eastham

RB- Nyambe, Pike

CB, Lenihan, Ayala, Carter, Wharton, possible new signjng

LB - Pickering, back up left back

CM- Travis, Buckley, Davenport, Johnson, Rothwell, new DM signing

RW- JRC, Dolan

LW- New signing, Chapman

ST- Armstrong(or his replacement), Gallagher, Brereton, Vale, McBride

Goodness me that looks a very weak squad destined for nothing better than a relegation battle. Just to get to around where we finished last season I'd say we need at least 8 players.

[JHRover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

No wonder you aren't interested cos you would keep players who need to leave and replace them. 

We only need 4/5 signings this summer and no more. left side wide player, centre midfielder, back up left back and centre back depending on Ayala fitness issues. 

The Current Squad. 

GK- Kaminski, Pears, Stergiakis, Eastham

RB- Nyambe, Pike

CB, Lenihan, Ayala, Carter, Wharton, possible new signjng

LB - Pickering, back up left back

CM- Travis, Buckley, Davenport, Johnson, Rothwell, new DM signing

RW- JRC, Dolan

LW- New signing, Chapman

ST- Armstrong(or his replacement), Gallagher, Brereton, Vale, McBride

So do we need any more than 4 or 5 signings?

Did I not just say we have sell Armstrong if he won't sign a new contract and use that money for replacement. I named who I would be targeting. 

I disagree with that. Why keep Bennett or Evans when we need to move on from them. No point keeping them at all. apart from waste money on wages. 

We need more than 4-5, but it is looking like even that is going to be a struggle.

We need 2x CB. Wharton and Ayala can't be relied on at this stage which is why we signed two loans in January for that position. LB is a problem now. 

Armstrong replacement. Depth to the squad. 

Chapman being used/relied on with his history here? You must be joking.

Vale and McBride? Why? Because you genuinely think they are ready to perform in the Championship or because they've done alright for the u23s?

It could be done using the free agent market but we aren't even adept at that - rival clubs busy signing people whilst nothing happening at Rovers. 

If I'm supposed to believe/accept that the reason for this is because the EFL are picking on us and taking ages to trawl through our accounts whilst the likes of Millwall and Luton have got themselves sorted I'm afraid not.

 

[JHRover]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why do constant believe we haven't JH? any story from anyone is another conspiracy theory from you. 

It's not a conspiracy theory to say I don't believe them. 

Do you think the stuff about the training ground was another conspiracy theory or that the club were lying on that one?

[Bigdoggsteel]

31 minutes ago, JHRover said:

No not quite that extreme. Through the course of last season we knew they were on loan and knew two very important elements of the side - creatively and defensively - were temporary patch ups with high likelihood both would need replacing - in addition to several others - this summer whilst still dealing with all the other issues at present.

If we'd have signed two players instead last summer - on 3 or 4 year deals - we wouldn't need to sign anyone to replace them this summer, so any restrictions imposed by the League would be of much less impact. Or we would get a hefty transfer fee to reinvest/offset to achieve compliance.

Armstrong should be the silver bullet for FFP - we should be getting £20 million+ which should smash FFP out of the park for the forseeable. Sadly more poor planning means we will be forced to sell him for much less which will have minimal impact on FFP accounts.

I see the Telegraph are starting with the suggestion that Armstrong hasn't signed a contract offer from Rovers.

Anyone actually believe there's a suitable offer on the table for him to stay?

Ah there is an offer, just not what he will get elsewhere. 

Yes ideally we should have signed two players on permanent deals last summer who were better than Elliott and THB, but we don't have the requisite scouting network to even dream of doing that. We got Ayala, who is decent, but has issues. That's where we are at, unfortunately. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[chaddyrovers]

11 minutes ago, JHRover said:

We need more than 4-5, but it is looking like even that is going to be a struggle.

why do we need more 4 or 5 signings. We have good young players coming through like JRC, Carter, Pike, Dolan so play them and used them. This is perfect opportunity to play them and let them cement the place in the starting 11/match day squad. 

14 minutes ago, JHRover said:

We need 2x CB. Wharton and Ayala can't be relied on at this stage which is why we signed two loans in January for that position.

why the hell do we need 6 centre backs and wasting more money with signings we don't need. 

Wharton will be back in September and We have Carter so use him in the match day squad. Maybe 1 signing at best. But I would rather play Wharton and Carter then just make a signing for the sake of it. 

In January both were out long term and then we need 2 signings then. Not the case now. 

18 minutes ago, JHRover said:

LB is a problem now. 

Hardly a problem cos you need a back up player there for your first choice left back Pickering

19 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Armstrong replacement. Depth to the squad. 

so you would sign a replacement even if he isn't sold. I wouldn't be signing a striker unless we sold Armstrong. We have Gallagher, Brereton, McBride and Vale. 

20 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Vale and McBride? Why? Because you genuinely think they are ready to perform in the Championship or because they've done alright for the u23s?

why not? McBride has performed well enough for the under 23's so why not use in the first team otherwise we might aswell get rid of the under 23's and the academy then if you aren't going to them after perform well enough in games. 

24 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Chapman being used/relied on with his history here? You must be joking.

whats the point in re-signing him if we are going to use him. I wasn't in favour of re-signing him in the 1st place

25 minutes ago, JHRover said:

It could be done using the free agent market but we aren't even adept at that - rival clubs busy signing people whilst nothing happening at Rovers. 

any many of these free agents who you wanted to sign here and have the quality we want and need? can you name them and who they did sign for? 

25 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Do you think the stuff about the training ground was another conspiracy theory or that the club were lying on that one?

very different issue and something I was angry about from day one and posted on here that I was against the restructing of the training ground/academy tranaing ground plus signing Rev's letter about it. Did you forget my stance on that? 

[roversfan99]

That squad with Mowbray and 4 of 5 extras (especially if we downgrade on Armstrong) would not be one to be optimistic about.

[Ewood Ace]

44 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

so you would sign a replacement even if he isn't sold. I wouldn't be signing a striker unless we sold Armstrong. We have Gallagher, Brereton, McBride and Vale. 

Vale could barely get a game for Rochdale who were relegated from League 1 last season and McBride has never played above Scottish League 2. As for Brereton and Gallagher I'd have thought that it was patently obvious by now after 3 and 2 seasons respectively that the manager does not view them as strikers.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Ewood Ace

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

That squad with Mowbray and 4 of 5 extras (especially if we downgrade on Armstrong) would not be one to be optimistic about.

For me, There is players to be optimistic about like JRC, Dolan, Buckley, Travis, Pickering to watch and perform in a Blue and White shirt. 

Getting rid of the deadwood and bringing in young players is a good way to go. 

Don't want to see Armstrong go but its very likely he goes and we need to bring in a good replacement whether its Woodrow or Yates or Healey or someone like Idah from Norwich if we get him as part of Armstrong transfer for example. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

35 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

why do we need more 4 or 5 signings. We have good young players coming through like JRC, Carter, Pike, Dolan so play them and used them. This is perfect opportunity to play them and let them cement the place in the starting 11/match day squad. 

why the hell do we need 6 centre backs and wasting more money with signings we don't need. 

Wharton will be back in September and We have Carter so use him in the match day squad. Maybe 1 signing at best. But I would rather play Wharton and Carter then just make a signing for the sake of it. 

In January both were out long term and then we need 2 signings then. Not the case now. 

Hardly a problem cos you need a back up player there for your first choice left back Pickering

so you would sign a replacement even if he isn't sold. I wouldn't be signing a striker unless we sold Armstrong. We have Gallagher, Brereton, McBride and Vale. 

why not? McBride has performed well enough for the under 23's so why not use in the first team otherwise we might aswell get rid of the under 23's and the academy then if you aren't going to them after perform well enough in games. 

whats the point in re-signing him if we are going to use him. I wasn't in favour of re-signing him in the 1st place

any many of these free agents who you wanted to sign here and have the quality we want and need? can you name them and who they did sign for? 

very different issue and something I was angry about from day one and posted on here that I was against the restructing of the training ground/academy tranaing ground plus signing Rev's letter about it. Did you forget my stance on that? 

Some reasonable points about where we are at, but I don't see how a combination of relying on the players mentioned ,many of whom are unknown at this level and Mowbray still being here as manager makes you think we have a realistic chance of making the play offs.

With Mowbray as manager we would need to spend £100 million to go up. He has said this himslef. Remember you said that Mowbray said having a head of recruitment in place isn't important at this point of the summer? So why don't you take what he says about needing £100 million as being the truth? I mean he is the manager. Nobody knows the squad better than him. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

23 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

For me, There is players to be optimistic about like JRC, Dolan, Buckley, Travis, Pickering to watch and perform in a Blue and White shirt. 

Getting rid of the deadwood and bringing in young players is a good way to go. 

Don't want to see Armstrong go but its very likely he goes and we need to bring in a good replacement whether its Woodrow or Yates or Healey or someone like Idah from Norwich if we get him as part of Armstrong transfer for example. 

Idah and £15 million could work. If we didn't owe Newcastle 40%. I wonder how it works if just swapped players? How does it affect his sell on for Newcastle

Edited July 4, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[roversfan99]

Idah has only ever scored 3 goals at his tender age. Big risk replacing such a prolific goalscorer with an untested kid.

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Idah has only ever scored 3 goals at his tender age. Big risk replacing such a prolific goalscorer with an untested kid.

More to a player than just looking at how many goals he has scored, as you know. He's a very good all round forward and only 20. 

Anyway, logically we should be replacing Armstrong with one of the strikers we signed for £5 and £7 million. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[chaddyrovers]

15 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Some reasonable points about where we are at, but I don't see how a combination of relying on the players mentioned ,many of whom are unknown at this level and Mowbray still being here as manager makes you think we have a realistic chance of making the play offs.

Players playing without fear and past experiences of past failure to kick on and get top 6. Looking at the current squad without any signings, my starting team for the 1st game I would play this 

                     Kaminski

Nyambe Lenihan Ayala Pickering

            Travis new DM signing

JRC            Buckley          Brereton

                  Armstrong

Like I keep saying I would like Mowbray replacing and I don't know how much clearer I can be. But Balaji has decide to stick with him so we start the season with him but if we start badly in the first 10 games I can see him being replace

21 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

With Mowbray as manager we would need to spend £100 million to go up. He has said this himslef.

Like I said yesterday about this comment. He is talking out of his arse and needs to talking BS like this. Clear enough?

20 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Idah and £15 million could work. If we didn't owe Newcastle 40%. I wonder how it works if just swapped players? How does it affect his sell on for Newcastle

This is just example of how we could involve a player within any deal for Armstrong

If Norwich offer 12 million plus Idah. Newcastle would be entitled to 40% of any profit above the 3 mil we paid. So they would get 40% of 9 million which is 3.6 million leaving us 8.4 million from the deal. 

I will just say this to be clear this is just an example 

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Idah has only ever scored 3 goals at his tender age. Big risk replacing such a prolific goalscorer with an untested kid.

Idah has scored 3 goals in the championship and 3 goals in the FA cup. so thats 6 goals in 32 games which 17 games were in championship, 3 in the FA Cup and 12 in the PL. 

You werent certain that Armstrong would produce the goals as a striker when he was moved there from the wing. I suggested it and I am delighted with the amount of goals Armstrong has scored for my club. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Players playing without fear and past experiences of past failure to kick on and get top 6. Looking at the current squad without any signings, my starting team for the 1st game I would play this 

                     Kaminski

Nyambe Lenihan Ayala Pickering

            Travis new DM signing

JRC            Buckley          Brereton

                  Armstrong

Like I keep saying I would like Mowbray replacing and I don't know how much clearer I can be. But Balaji has decide to stick with him so we start the season with him but if we start badly in the first 10 games I can see him being replace

Like I said yesterday about this comment. He is talking out of his arse and needs to talking BS like this. Clear enough?

This is just example of how we could involve a player within any deal for Armstrong

If Norwich offer 12 million plus Idah. Newcastle would be entitled to 40% of any profit above the 3 mil we paid. So they would get 40% of 9 million which is 3.6 million leaving us 8.4 million from the deal. 

I will just say this to be clear this is just an example 

Idah has scored 3 goals in the championship and 3 goals in the FA cup. so thats 6 goals in 32 games which 17 games were in championship, 3 in the FA Cup and 12 in the PL. 

You werent certain that Armstrong would produce the goals as a striker when he was moved there from the wing. I suggested it and I am delighted with the amount of goals Armstrong has scored for my club. 

So you're hoping things just click into place basically? Even under a manager you don't want. This is perhaps why people don't really find what you're saying that clear, even though you keep saying it's clear. I would advise you not to be surprised if things don't just click into place. 

Mowbray being sacked after as few as 10 games is possibly the best thing that could happen and would give us an outside chance of doing something. The thing is they will ONLY sack him if we are doing so badly that it will be too late. I'm sure you recall they didn't sack him after 2 wins in 17 last season, so would they sack him after 0 wins in 10? Maybe, maybe not. They seem hellbent on him at least finishing out his contract. 

That's good to know that it's profit. We should really just try and swap him for 2-3 decent players so imo. If he is to leave. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[roversfan99]

Why would Venkys start suddenly taking an interest and grow a backbone after 10 games? And that would mean that we start awfully making survival an uphill task.

I think if Armstrong stays then his goals will keep us up, although we would receive no fee when he leaves on a free.

For me, the equation is same manager and poorer squad equalling a lower finish. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Obviously I hope you are right @chaddyroversand things do just miraculously click into place 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

why do we need more 4 or 5 signings. We have good young players coming through like JRC, Carter, Pike, Dolan so play them and used them. This is perfect opportunity to play them and let them cement the place in the starting 11/match day squad. 

why the hell do we need 6 centre backs and wasting more money with signings we don't need. 

Wharton will be back in September and We have Carter so use him in the match day squad. Maybe 1 signing at best. But I would rather play Wharton and Carter then just make a signing for the sake of it. 

In January both were out long term and then we need 2 signings then. Not the case now. 

Hardly a problem cos you need a back up player there for your first choice left back Pickering

so you would sign a replacement even if he isn't sold. I wouldn't be signing a striker unless we sold Armstrong. We have Gallagher, Brereton, McBride and Vale. 

why not? McBride has performed well enough for the under 23's so why not use in the first team otherwise we might aswell get rid of the under 23's and the academy then if you aren't going to them after perform well enough in games. 

whats the point in re-signing him if we are going to use him. I wasn't in favour of re-signing him in the 1st place

any many of these free agents who you wanted to sign here and have the quality we want and need? can you name them and who they did sign for? 

very different issue and something I was angry about from day one and posted on here that I was against the restructing of the training ground/academy tranaing ground plus signing Rev's letter about it. Did you forget my stance on that? 

I hope I’m wrong but I ‘d be very surprised if Wharton is ready for first team football in September.

[Sparks Rover]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why do constant believe we haven't JH? any story from anyone is another conspiracy theory from you. 

But any newspaper story you find first about a new signing is proudly displayed by you even if it's bullshit.

Same old double standards 

[K-Hod]

4 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

But any newspaper story you find first about a new signing is proudly displayed by you even if it's bullshit.

Same old double standards 

And it’s the same old from you too, replying to every single post the lad makes….

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, K-Hod said:

And it’s the same old from you too, replying to every single post the lad makes….

I'd be here all day doing nothing else if that were true. 🤷‍♂️🙄