Championship 21/22

[chaddyrovers]

42 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Why would Venkys start suddenly taking an interest and grow a backbone after 10 games? And that would mean that we start awfully making survival an uphill task.

Do you know that they don't take an interest now? without any of us knowing what their motives are and why they continue to finance the club. 

Is it Venkys now or Just Balaji that's the main interest in Rovers? 

22 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I hope I’m wrong but I ‘d be very surprised if Wharton is ready for first team football in September.

That's what Wharton was saying 4 days to the Rovers website.

 Wharton: I'm in a good place | rovers.co.uk

 

[K-Hod]

6 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'd be here all day doing nothing else if that were true. 🤷‍♂️🙄

 

Doesn’t feel a million miles away from that tbh. If he bothers you that much, put him on ignore, maybe?

[JHRover]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

why do we need more 4 or 5 signings. We have good young players coming through like JRC, Carter, Pike, Dolan so play them and used them. This is perfect opportunity to play them and let them cement the place in the starting 11/match day squad. 

why the hell do we need 6 centre backs and wasting more money with signings we don't need. 

Wharton will be back in September and We have Carter so use him in the match day squad. Maybe 1 signing at best. But I would rather play Wharton and Carter then just make a signing for the sake of it. 

In January both were out long term and then we need 2 signings then. Not the case now. 

Hardly a problem cos you need a back up player there for your first choice left back Pickering

so you would sign a replacement even if he isn't sold. I wouldn't be signing a striker unless we sold Armstrong. We have Gallagher, Brereton, McBride and Vale. 

why not? McBride has performed well enough for the under 23's so why not use in the first team otherwise we might aswell get rid of the under 23's and the academy then if you aren't going to them after perform well enough in games. 

whats the point in re-signing him if we are going to use him. I wasn't in favour of re-signing him in the 1st place

any many of these free agents who you wanted to sign here and have the quality we want and need? can you name them and who they did sign for? 

very different issue and something I was angry about from day one and posted on here that I was against the restructing of the training ground/academy tranaing ground plus signing Rev's letter about it. Did you forget my stance on that? 

A lot to respond to but here goes.

I've already explained why we need more than 4-5 signings. We've lost around 15 from last season. 

We need a minimum of 4 CBs to call upon. One of them has barely featured because he's a crock (Ayala) and it would be suicide to plan on the basis he is going to remain fit. Wharton is out until AT LEAST September with a serious injury. It goes without saying I want him back and fully recovered asap but that is taking a chance - he might have a setback, he might not get back to where he was. Too many IFs and Buts with that sort of injury - same goes for Dack. 

We've lost 2 in HB and Branthwaite and also Williams and Mulgrew who were experienced options. So we need 2 to come in. 

It isn't wasting money if having depth to the squad saves us from relegation. That's called being sensible and pre-empting inevitable injuries. I honestly think some people would sooner we never spent any money again and saved on transfer fees and wages - but you'll never get promoted or succeed by scrimping and saving and cutting corners.

It isn't 'making a signing for the sake of it'. CB is a key position. Arguably the most important. You need solid, reliable consistent players there and you should then build from a stable and effective defensive unit. You don't just throw in a couple of youngsters in the hope they do alright, you don't cut corners by trying to fill the positions with loanees for a few months.

The situation with Wharton was the same in January as it is now - he isn't fit and isn't going to be for some time. By September (earliest all being well) the course for the season will be set. A poor start and you can get stuck down there. Carter wasn't out long term. He was loaned out to Burton because Mowbray had no intention of using him here. 

You take a very black and white view with the U23s. Of course a player can play well for the U23s and not be ready to play in the Championship. Scoring goals in the Championship is a different game to scoring goals in the U23 league. I'm not saying McBride is or isn't good enough, I am saying there's scant evidence to suggest he will bang in goals in the Championship. If your logic was correct then we would never need to sign anyone ever again as we could just dip into the academy to find our first team players.

I would say both McBride and Vale need to prove they can do the business in competitive football before we gamble our status on it. 

Minimum £7 million for getting relegated - are you willing to gamble that?

We shouldn't have re-signed Chapman. I don't know what they are playing at but something doesn't sit right with it. I suspect there's minimal cost to the club in doing it and they think they can eke a few goals out of him and sell him for a few quid. Quite clear Mowbray's not a fan.

[Blue blood]

6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

No wonder you aren't interested cos you would keep players who need to leave and replace them. 

We only need 4/5 signings this summer and no more. left side wide player, centre midfielder, back up left back and centre back depending on Ayala fitness issues. 

The Current Squad. 

GK- Kaminski, Pears, Stergiakis, Eastham

RB- Nyambe, Pike

CB, Lenihan, Ayala, Carter, Wharton, possible new signjng

LB - Pickering, back up left back

CM- Travis, Buckley, Davenport, Johnson, Rothwell, new DM signing

RW- JRC, Dolan

LW- New signing, Chapman

ST- Armstrong(or his replacement), Gallagher, Brereton, Vale, McBride

So do we need any more than 4 or 5 signings?

. 

Absolutely. Only 4 or 5 signings needed assuming... 

1) none of our injury prone players are out long term or get injured at the same time. 

2) every youth player makes the step up to championship level and rapidly.

3) Bereton and Gally start performing on a more regular basis. 

4) The current youngsters with a bit of championship experience all progress as expected. 

Put simply, this is not going to happen. Pure fantasy. This squad would struggle even if the four or five players we bring in are world beaters. Oh, that's another thing, we are assuming all the signings will work out. 

Can see this happening though. It's not hope for the best plan for the worst at Ewood, it's plan for the best and ignore the worst even when it's bleeding obvious. 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Blue blood

[arbitro]

https://www.skysports.com

Sky have announced their live tv coverage for August. Unsurprisingly we don't feature but I noticed two fixtures, Swansea v Sheffield United and Sheffield United v Birmingham kick off at 8 pm on Saturday evenings. After all the weird kick off times during BCD games I wonder if Sky will sneakily try to make this a regular slot.

[chaddyrovers]

19 hours ago, JHRover said:

I've already explained why we need more than 4-5 signings. We've lost around 15 from last season. 

apart from Eliiott and THB who else are we going to miss? and would you have given any of them new contracts really when they offered too little to the first team all last season? 

So which of these would you have kept? 

Mulgrew? Williams? Bennett? Evans? Bell? Holtby? Branthwaite? Trybull? Dwoning? Lyons?

19 hours ago, JHRover said:

We need a minimum of 4 CBs to call upon. One of them has barely featured because he's a crock (Ayala) and it would be suicide to plan on the basis he is going to remain fit. Wharton is out until AT LEAST September with a serious injury. It goes without saying I want him back and fully recovered asap but that is taking a chance - he might have a setback, he might not get back to where he was. Too many IFs and Buts with that sort of injury - same goes for Dack. 

We've lost 2 in HB and Branthwaite and also Williams and Mulgrew who were experienced options. So we need 2 to come in. 

It isn't wasting money if having depth to the squad saves us from relegation. That's called being sensible and pre-empting inevitable injuries. I honestly think some people would sooner we never spent any money again and saved on transfer fees and wages - but you'll never get promoted or succeed by scrimping and saving and cutting corners.

It isn't 'making a signing for the sake of it'. CB is a key position. Arguably the most important. You need solid, reliable consistent players there and you should then build from a stable and effective defensive unit. You don't just throw in a couple of youngsters in the hope they do alright, you don't cut corners by trying to fill the positions with loanees for a few months.

We need one but not 2 centre back signings. We have 4 centre backs now in Ayala, Lenihan, Wharton and Carter. Carter proved his ability at Burton and he impressed there. Similar to Wharton the season before. So I for bring one centre back in. Ayala is training and hopefully he will be less injury prone but unsure he was. Wharton is back in training today and targeting a September comeback. 

19 hours ago, JHRover said:

You take a very black and white view with the U23s. Of course a player can play well for the U23s and not be ready to play in the Championship. Scoring goals in the Championship is a different game to scoring goals in the U23 league. I'm not saying McBride is or isn't good enough, I am saying there's scant evidence to suggest he will bang in goals in the Championship. If your logic was correct then we would never need to sign anyone ever again as we could just dip into the academy to find our first team players.

I would say both McBride and Vale need to prove they can do the business in competitive football before we gamble our status on it. 

Minimum £7 million for getting relegated - are you willing to gamble that?

Yes I would use both within the first team squad espically when we we have Armstrong, Gallagher and Brereton has our first 3 strikers. So is it much of a gamble to use one of them as 4th choice really? 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

apart from Eliiott and THB who else are we going to miss? and would you have given any of them new contracts really when they offered too little to the first team all last season? 

So which of these would you have kept? 

Mulgrew? Williams? Bennett? Evans? Bell? Holtby? Branthwaite? Trybull? Dwoning? Lyons?

We need one but not 2 centre back signings. We have 4 centre backs now in Ayala, Lenihan, Wharton and Carter. Carter proved his ability at Burton and he impressed there. Similar to Wharton the season before. So I for bring one centre back in. Ayala is training and hopefully he will be less injury prone but unsure he was. Wharton is back in training today and targeting a September comeback. 

Yes I would use both within the first team squad espically when we we have Armstrong, Gallagher and Brereton has our first 3 strikers. So is it much of a gamble to use one of them as 4th choice really? 

What’s the latest on Butterworth ? But for injuries he’d have been knocking on the door by now.

[roversfan99]

You can't lose so many players and not replace at least most of them with players who have at least played senior football.

Lots of assumptions too as pointed out elsewhere, Ayala is suddenly going to avoid injury and a clutch of graduates are all going to settle straight into the first team squad and be up to it. Even players like Davenport and Buckley have yet to fully establish themselves.

Should the out of contract players have been retained? No. Will it be too difficult/expensive to replace them? No. But can we get away with just not replacing most of them at all or even bothering to try to? Definitely not.

There is a galling lack of experience in our squad too, besides Johnson who is not really up to it anymore and Ayala who can't string two games together. We need some experience but even when it is clarified as to when and under what restrictions we can sign players under, the noises from our incompetent manager last season suggested that it would be mainly loans. More untested kids to add to the inexperience.

[Blue blood]

16 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You can't lose so many players and not replace at least most of them with players who have at least played senior football.

Lots of assumptions too as pointed out elsewhere, Ayala is suddenly going to avoid injury and a clutch of graduates are all going to settle straight into the first team squad and be up to it. Even players like Davenport and Buckley have yet to fully establish themselves.

Should the out of contract players have been retained? No. Will it be too difficult/expensive to replace them? No. But can we get away with just not replacing most of them at all or even bothering to try to? Definitely not.

There is a galling lack of experience in our squad too, besides Johnson who is not really up to it anymore and Ayala who can't string two games together. We need some experience but even when it is clarified as to when and under what restrictions we can sign players under, the noises from our incompetent manager last season suggested that it would be mainly loans. More untested kids to add to the inexperience.

Great post. 

What gets me with fans and the manager who have this position is that it observably cannot work. 

Ignoring the basic premise that if it were that easy to just chuck in a load of youngsters then every team would do it. And they don't for a reason, all the other assumptions are observably untrue as well. 

Injuries. We have seen how much our centre backs get injured. Fans and managers have witnessed how much time it takes for players to get up to speed after serious injuries. Why are we suddenly not going to have these injuries? Why are suddenly our serious injuries going to buck the recovery time needed? 

Or look at experience. We have seen how well JRC, Buckley and Chapman have done. And whilst there is a debate as to how well they have done, none would say they have performed strongly. Promising, imo yea, but consistent to be relied upon players? That's asking a lot and doesn't seem to line up with where they are with their progress. 

Or all the untested players coming in. If you have supported a football team for any length of time you know that not every youth player makes it. That's a fact. So why suddenly do all of ours beat the odds and make it? Then there's the development argument - look at the time it's taken some of our players to progress. Young players very often take time to develop. And yet suddenly it's as if that process is to be ignored/sped up. Why? How? 

Then there's relying on Bereton and Gally for goals. Haven't people seen the stinkers they have had or how the manager has mismanaged them? Why is that going to change?

Am all for a bit of optimism but let's not ignore reality. Sadly the manager and some fans seem to be doing this. 

[SuperBrfc]

I'm not comfortable at the thought of throwing the kids in and just hoping for the best. It's a massive step up from U23's to Championship football. It's easy to say we've got Pike, Carter etc so we don't need to sign a, b, c. Yet the reality is football doesn't always work like that. If it did, why has Klopp signed Konate when he already has Nat Phillips and Rhys Williams at the club? Or why should Pep be looking for a striker when he's got Delap he can bring into the squad? That's what some of our fans are doing when it comes to Carter, McBride, Vale etc. Relying on these kids isn't going to take us where we want to go. They might have potential, but right now, are they good enough to get us towards the top 6?

Mowbray messed up by not giving minutes to Pike, McBride etc in the dead rubbers towards the end of last season. They would have got a feel for senior football and we would have had some idea of how they might cope with it. In our situation, we desperately need experienced players to come in, particularly in defence and the centre of midfield.

Our defence right now is a massive concern. Ayala unable to stay fit, Wharton out injured (though he looked good before his injury) and Carter. It might sound harsh, but my personal view is that Carter isn't good enough for Rovers. He is levels below Harwood-Bellis and not the answer to our defensive issues. Yes, he had a decent loan spell at Burton, but to now count him as one of four centre backs we can rely upon next season? Not for me.

The way Mowbray has already come out and said "young team, needs time to develop" suggests we are going to be relying more on the youngsters next season and it doesn't fill me with much confidence, to be honest.

[rigger]

3 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

I'm not comfortable at the thought of throwing the kids in and just hoping for the best. It's a massive step up from U23's to Championship football. It's easy to say we've got Pike, Carter etc so we don't need to sign a, b, c. Yet the reality is football doesn't always work like that. If it did, why has Klopp signed Konate when he already has Nat Phillips and Rhys Williams at the club? Or why should Pep be looking for a striker when he's got Delap he can bring into the squad? That's what some of our fans are doing when it comes to Carter, McBride, Vale etc. Relying on these kids isn't going to take us where we want to go. They might have potential, but right now, are they good enough to get us towards the top 6?

Mowbray messed up by not giving minutes to Pike, McBride etc in the dead rubbers towards the end of last season. They would have got a feel for senior football and we would have had some idea of how they might cope with it. In our situation, we desperately need experienced players to come in, particularly in defence and the centre of midfield.

Our defence right now is a massive concern. Ayala unable to stay fit, Wharton out injured (though he looked good before his injury) and Carter. It might sound harsh, but my personal view is that Carter isn't good enough for Rovers. He is levels below Harwood-Bellis and not the answer to our defensive issues. Yes, he had a decent loan spell at Burton, but to now count him as one of four centre backs we can rely upon next season? Not for me.

The way Mowbray has already come out and said "young team, needs time to develop" suggests we are going to be relying more on the youngsters next season and it doesn't fill me with much confidence, to be honest.

To me it is not a question of, if we can or cannot rely, on some of our youngsters. It is more a fact, that we may well have to rely on some youngsters to cover

[chaddyrovers]

On 05/07/2021 at 17:50, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What’s the latest on Butterworth ? But for injuries he’d have been knocking on the door by now.

Training with the first team currently, Looks sharp and during in the Video Clips Rovers has posted of the Training camp in Stirling. 

I have posted them in the pre season thread and will post the last 2 days worth shortly

[roversfan99]

Neil Etheridge (Birmingham goalkeeper) is in hospital with covid. I saw that Ipswich had issues with friendlies due to Covid and also on here the rumour that our game v Gateshead was cancelled due to Covid. I wonder how many games will be cancelled this season due to isolation/positive tests and if the players have been vaccinated yet?

[JHRover]

I've been running through things in my mind and to be perfectly honest I'm struggling to find these 3 or 4 sides worse than us who we can be confident of finishing above at this moment in time.

Middlesbrough - play off challengers under Warnock

Hull - unknown entity. Bit of a basket case but momentum from promotion.

Huddersfield - poor last season yet still in and around us. Have recruited heavily and to me have a stronger squad on paper.

Barnsley - top 6 last season

Sheff Utd - PL last season, parachute excuse and have appointed a top manager

Forest - poor last season but with a full summer under Hughton expect that to change quickly.

Derby - bit unknown. Inexperienced manager and poor last season, problems off the pitch yet still a reasonable looking squad of players.

Stoke - decent looking squad and expect them to be solid under O'Neill

West Brom - parachute excuse and have appointed a good manager

Birmingham - expect them to improve under Bowyer - always seem to do enough to at least survive

Coventry - may struggle but returning home to the Ricoh which will probably deliver a bounce and seem to have done some reasonable recruitment.

Peterborough - may struggle but a solidly run club with good recruitment and a plan to improve and grow

Luton - outdid us last season

Reading - outdid us last season and nearly made the play-offs

Bristol City - expect to be a different beast altogether with Pearson putting his stamp on them

Bournemouth - still a very strong looking squad with investment going in 

Cardiff - McCarthy made a mockery of Mowbray with his performance last season and expect similar this

Swansea - top 6 last two seasons

QPR - outdid us last season and improved over the last couple of years under Warburton.

Fulham - parachute excuse, good squad and good manager just appointed.

Millwall - solid, organised, well run and outdid us last season under a decent manager.

Preston - very much an unknown under their new manager. Could end up going horribly wrong for them, I expect them to struggle, but they have a knack of finishing above us so can't really be confident of that changing

Blackpool - upward momentum, unity, will be a big step up but they are all pulling together with a clued up owner.

So yeah, other than perhaps the 3 promoted clubs (hoping they find the step up too much) and maybe hoping that someone like PNE struggle under a rookie manager I'm stuck. 

[Sparks Rover]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I've been running through things in my mind and to be perfectly honest I'm struggling to find these 3 or 4 sides worse than us who we can be confident of finishing above at this moment in time.

Middlesbrough - play off challengers under Warnock

Hull - unknown entity. Bit of a basket case but momentum from promotion.

Huddersfield - poor last season yet still in and around us. Have recruited heavily and to me have a stronger squad on paper.

Barnsley - top 6 last season

Sheff Utd - PL last season, parachute excuse and have appointed a top manager

Forest - poor last season but with a full summer under Hughton expect that to change quickly.

Derby - bit unknown. Inexperienced manager and poor last season, problems off the pitch yet still a reasonable looking squad of players.

Stoke - decent looking squad and expect them to be solid under O'Neill

West Brom - parachute excuse and have appointed a good manager

Birmingham - expect them to improve under Bowyer - always seem to do enough to at least survive

Coventry - may struggle but returning home to the Ricoh which will probably deliver a bounce and seem to have done some reasonable recruitment.

Peterborough - may struggle but a solidly run club with good recruitment and a plan to improve and grow

Luton - outdid us last season

Reading - outdid us last season and nearly made the play-offs

Bristol City - expect to be a different beast altogether with Pearson putting his stamp on them

Bournemouth - still a very strong looking squad with investment going in 

Cardiff - McCarthy made a mockery of Mowbray with his performance last season and expect similar this

Swansea - top 6 last two seasons

QPR - outdid us last season and improved over the last couple of years under Warburton.

Fulham - parachute excuse, good squad and good manager just appointed.

Millwall - solid, organised, well run and outdid us last season under a decent manager.

Preston - very much an unknown under their new manager. Could end up going horribly wrong for them, I expect them to struggle, but they have a knack of finishing above us so can't really be confident of that changing

Blackpool - upward momentum, unity, will be a big step up but they are all pulling together with a clued up owner.

So yeah, other than perhaps the 3 promoted clubs (hoping they find the step up too much) and maybe hoping that someone like PNE struggle under a rookie manager I'm stuck. 

I'm with you on this.  The ones you point out as being weak I'm not having.

Nobbers have made decent signings and are making more.  They'll do OK with a good start 

Hull have a decent manager and some money

Pool - as you say momentum and a coach with contacts and a plan

I'm worried, but chadddy thinks top 6 ....🤷‍♂️

 

[unsall]

14 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm with you on this.  The ones you point out as being weak I'm not having.

Nobbers have made decent signings and are making more.  They'll do OK with a good start 

Hull have a decent manager and some money

Pool - as you say momentum and a coach with contacts and a plan

I'm worried, but chadddy thinks top 6 ....🤷‍♂️

 

So basically every club will finish above Rovers, think I’ll wait till window shuts and see where we are, just need a bit of experience to mix with the young ‘uns , and a bit of luck with injuries ….

[JHRover]

2 minutes ago, unsall said:

So basically every club will finish above Rovers, think I’ll wait till window shuts and see where we are, just need a bit of experience to mix with the young ‘uns , and a bit of luck with injuries ….

We can go only off where we are now and our view of things at the present. Yes things might change with signings and luck, but those are only possibles. 

As it stands, for the reasons above, I think we will be in deep deep trouble.

[Sparks Rover]

8 minutes ago, unsall said:

So basically every club will finish above Rovers, 

Never said that.  Its just the so called weaker teams are getting stronger or trying to, we are struggling for a team.

[roversfan99]

There is a lot of rubbish in this league. Sadly, the formula of a squad lacking its prolific goalscorer and main creator, with the same incompetent manager and with an increased dependant on too many untested kids isnt a positive one.

Edited July 14, 2021 by roversfan99

[unsall]

7 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Never said that.  Its just the so called weaker teams are getting stronger or trying to, we are struggling for a team.

Not in as many words, but JHRover did except for 3/4 clubs to which you thought they would do ok, so it seemed to you every other club were stronger than Rovers.

You could both be right, but we do have a strong young squad, just obviously too small and a lack of experienced players, really hoping we add 4/5 decent players in the next 3 weeks..

[Sparks Rover]

4 minutes ago, unsall said:

.

You could both be right, but we do have a strong young squad, 

We don't.  Who is young and strong here? All this emphasis on the academy kids, most aren't ready or never will be.  If we dont buy 4 or 5 men we are going to be down the bottom

[unsall]

8 hours ago, JHRover said:

We can go only off where we are now and our view of things at the present. Yes things might change with signings and luck, but those are only possibles. 

As it stands, for the reasons above, I think we will be in deep deep trouble.

Yes, but you know Rovers always do their transfer business very late, 4/5 decent experienced players in will make a big difference.

The Armstrong situation is crucial, lose him and don’t replace him with someone decent and we will certainly struggle to score, pace is what we need, and obviously a bit of skill, exactly like Armstrong, not easy to find, certainly not another Gallagher type.

[Sparks Rover]

3 minutes ago, unsall said:

Yes, but you know Rovers always do their transfer business very late, 4/5 decent experienced players in will make a big difference.

Season starts in 2 weeks.

[unsall]

3 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

We don't.  Who is young and strong here? All this emphasis on the academy kids, most aren't ready or never will be.  If we dont buy 4 or 5 men we are going to be down the bottom

Didn’t say the academy kids, although there is some good talent there,I meant the ones already in the squad, they are young strong and very decent players, just need a few older wiser heads without going down the Murphy route.

[unsall]

1 minute ago, Sparks Rover said:

Season starts in 2 weeks.

Just over 3 weeks.