Championship 21/22

[Mattyblue]

There’s not much between any of us, however, for me, AFCB have that extra bit of quality that will see more 3 points like Saturday ground out.

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Mattyblue

[47er]

13 hours ago, only2garners said:

QPR now have 5 points from the last 5 and the only win was against Reading.

Ditto us! 5 points from 5 games and haven't won any of the last 4. 4 sides just out of the 6---Preston, Sheff Utd, Luton and Forest have done much better than we have over the last 5 games.

Essential we turn it around  starting this weekend.

Edited February 16, 2022 by 47er

[rigger]

5 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Fence sitting but to me it honestly depends on how we do in this run. You can't really afford to have too long a period without picking up some wins, so only a point or two extra from the next few games and I think we will have blown it. Scab a win or two in our challenging run and playoffs minimum- going for 5th. Given the next set of games feature a lot of promotion rivals they are the clichéd 6 pointers, so a bad run here becomes even more harmful. So whilst it's a deferral and obviously the picture becomes clearer the further you go on, to me I think these next few games are the make or break ones for the season. 

5 points from the next 3 games, I will be happy. 7 will put pressure on Bournemouth.

Edited February 16, 2022 by rigger

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 hours ago, 47er said:

Ditto us! 5 points from 5 games and haven't won any of the last 4. 4 sides just out of the 6---Preston, Sheff Utd, Luton and Forest have done much better than we have over the last 5 games.

Essential we turn it around  starting this weekend.

And we did much better over the previous 27 games, hence why we are ahead of them. 

[islander200]

Bristol City , Middlesbrough and Stoke and a few others  could be starting next season with points deductions due to FFP. 

https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/bristol-city-think-seven-more-championship-clubs-could-be-deducted-points-for-ffp-breaches-317692?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=FootballJOE&utm_campaign=feed

[Blue blood]

Pretty sure Derby are going to stay up 😟

Peterborough and Reading have a must win game Vs each other and neither can muster the win. A win for either would have put Derby in a bit of trouble but as it is neither can manage it. 

[RoversTilliDie]

On 27/05/2021 at 13:19, Bigdoggsteel said:

Interesting one. Could go either way that. Big change from Wilder to as foreign coach. 

Mowbray out 

There's no easy games in the second half of the season, teams improve for survival or promotion and suss other teams out. I am sure sheff utd will improve with there new manager.

[RoversTilliDie]

On 15/02/2022 at 22:39, only2garners said:

QPR now have 5 points from the last 5 and the only win was against Reading.

We said something similar about bournemouth, they are now 5pts clear of rovers. We shouldn't see what other teams are doing, but concentrate on our own clubs fortunes,

[JHRover]

13 hours ago, islander200 said:

Bristol City , Middlesbrough and Stoke and a few others  could be starting next season with points deductions due to FFP. 

https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/bristol-city-think-seven-more-championship-clubs-could-be-deducted-points-for-ffp-breaches-317692?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=FootballJOE&utm_campaign=feed

We hear this sort of thing around this sort of time every year. Very rarely happens. Only 2 clubs have been docked points due to FFP breaches - Birmingham and Reading. Derby were docked points for administration and like with Sheff Wed also for employing dodgy accounting tactics to try and avoid FFP trouble, not for actually breaching FFP.

People like Coates at Stoke and Gibson at Boro are the darlings of English football. Almost universally liked/respected and just about as reliable and ideal owners as any club could want - local and loaded and in it for the long term. I'd say there's zero prospect of the League wanting or trying to sanction them and even if they tried Gibson has shown he's up for a battle and will take them on.

Bristol City have just lost over £30 million in the last year alone. It is as clear as night follows day that they will be over the 3 year limit that people often refer to. Lets see if they actually get a sanction because I don't think they will. Lansdown is another one like Gibson and Coates - the sort they don't want to upset or antagonise and the sort with the ability to take them on if they try.

[roversfan99]

Obviously as someone who supports a club who would be potentially positively affected by such deductions, I still think it would make a mockery of the league should a series of teams start a season with a points deduction. I remain skeptical too until it happens.

[islander200]

23 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Obviously as someone who supports a club who would be potentially positively affected by such deductions, I still think it would make a mockery of the league should a series of teams start a season with a points deduction. I remain skeptical too until it happens.

If they have overspent then they should be hit with sanctions both points deductions and transfer embargoed wether it makes a mockery of the league or not.

Ffp Is a joke and should be abolished but while it is in place then clubs should be punished for breaking the rules.

[islander200]

52 minutes ago, JHRover said:

We hear this sort of thing around this sort of time every year. Very rarely happens. Only 2 clubs have been docked points due to FFP breaches - Birmingham and Reading. Derby were docked points for administration and like with Sheff Wed also for employing dodgy accounting tactics to try and avoid FFP trouble, not for actually breaching FFP.

People like Coates at Stoke and Gibson at Boro are the darlings of English football. Almost universally liked/respected and just about as reliable and ideal owners as any club could want - local and loaded and in it for the long term. I'd say there's zero prospect of the League wanting or trying to sanction them and even if they tried Gibson has shown he's up for a battle and will take them on.

Bristol City have just lost over £30 million in the last year alone. It is as clear as night follows day that they will be over the 3 year limit that people often refer to. Lets see if they actually get a sanction because I don't think they will. Lansdown is another one like Gibson and Coates - the sort they don't want to upset or antagonise and the sort with the ability to take them on if they try.

If any of those clubs are over the limit they will be sanctioned otherwise every other the club in the league will start ignoring the rules.

If they are using dodgy accounting then surely they were in breach of the rules otherwise no need for any dodgy accounting.

Doesn't matter how respected the owners are, other clubs who kept within the rules will be launching legal proceedings against the EFL .

It's clear the rules are being taken a lot more serious in the last couple of seasons 

Edited February 17, 2022 by islander200

[Bigdoggsteel]

47 minutes ago, JHRover said:

We hear this sort of thing around this sort of time every year. Very rarely happens. Only 2 clubs have been docked points due to FFP breaches - Birmingham and Reading. Derby were docked points for administration and like with Sheff Wed also for employing dodgy accounting tactics to try and avoid FFP trouble, not for actually breaching FFP.

People like Coates at Stoke and Gibson at Boro are the darlings of English football. Almost universally liked/respected and just about as reliable and ideal owners as any club could want - local and loaded and in it for the long term. I'd say there's zero prospect of the League wanting or trying to sanction them and even if they tried Gibson has shown he's up for a battle and will take them on.

Bristol City have just lost over £30 million in the last year alone. It is as clear as night follows day that they will be over the 3 year limit that people often refer to. Lets see if they actually get a sanction because I don't think they will. Lansdown is another one like Gibson and Coates - the sort they don't want to upset or antagonise and the sort with the ability to take them on if they try.

You have been saying clubs don't get punished for a while now, but you can't just not include Derby and Sheffield Wednesday with the other 2, it's all down to FFP and it seems more are coming. 

I know you think rovers just use it as an excuse not to spend,  but it is actually a real thing! 

[roversfan99]

28 minutes ago, islander200 said:

If they have overspent then they should be hit with sanctions both points deductions and transfer embargoed wether it makes a mockery of the league or not.

Ffp Is a joke and should be abolished but while it is in place then clubs should be punished for breaking the rules.

Perhaps, I appreciate the need for accountability and totally understand that side of thing. Mind you, surely the pandemic creates a fair argument that the rules which were obviously created prior become a whole new ball game? But either way, it wouldnt sit right for the competition to be undermined by numerous teams being given points deductions before a ball is kicked based on a framework that isnt flexible to compensate for unforseen circumstances.

[JHRover]

37 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You have been saying clubs don't get punished for a while now, but you can't just not include Derby and Sheffield Wednesday with the other 2, it's all down to FFP and it seems more are coming. 

I know you think rovers just use it as an excuse not to spend,  but it is actually a real thing! 

I can not include Derby and Sheff Wed because their sanctions were for breaking different rules!

You can't spend ages warning against the pitfalls of spending money on players and then use two clubs who were sanctioned for fiddling their accounts and just lump every club that recieves a sanction into the same category. Compare us to Birmingham fine as that is the benchmark. We will only emulate the other two if we do something underhand with our Brockhall sale - like backdate it or grossly inflate its value.

Their sanctions were for using prohibited accountancy tactics to try and assist them in dodging the rules.

I know it is real - my point is that only in very rare cases do overspending clubs actually get sanctioned for doing it and usually those are the clubs run by buffoons. Those clubs guilty of overspending - and it is obvious to everyone that Stoke, Bristol City and Middlesbrough are - have not been punished and I will eat my hat if any of them actually have any points deducted. Reasons being their owners are too astute to allow it and the EFL know this. If they were going to sanction them they would have been able to do so long before now.

Because lets remember that the FFP rules haven't come in during the last year or two - they've been here for 8 years and were in the pipeline long before that. Which makes Rovers inability to cope with them even more bizarre given we were in this division when they were brought in and suffered at the hands of them back in 2015 yet are still unable to get our house in order to comply with them.

Meanwhile titans of the game like Bristol City and Boro have managed to avoid any issues despite spending considerably more than we have over the years.

I'll be amazed if that happens.

[islander200]

40 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Perhaps, I appreciate the need for accountability and totally understand that side of thing. Mind you, surely the pandemic creates a fair argument that the rules which were obviously created prior become a whole new ball game? But either way, it wouldnt sit right for the competition to be undermined by numerous teams being given points deductions before a ball is kicked based on a framework that isnt flexible to compensate for unforseen circumstances.

I agree that it does nothing for the integrity of the league if a number of teams start the season with points deductions but at the same time these clubs have had an unfair advantage on others the past 3 seasons by overspending. 

Like I said not a fan of FFP and think a club owner should be allowed spend what they want but the clubs voted these rules in.

Surely covid is being taken into account when these calculations are made?

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I can not include Derby and Sheff Wed because their sanctions were for breaking different rules!

You can't spend ages warning against the pitfalls of spending money on players and then use two clubs who were sanctioned for fiddling their accounts and just lump every club that recieves a sanction into the same category. Compare us to Birmingham fine as that is the benchmark. We will only emulate the other two if we do something underhand with our Brockhall sale - like backdate it or grossly inflate its value.

Their sanctions were for using prohibited accountancy tactics to try and assist them in dodging the rules.

I know it is real - my point is that only in very rare cases do overspending clubs actually get sanctioned for doing it and usually those are the clubs run by buffoons. Those clubs guilty of overspending - and it is obvious to everyone that Stoke, Bristol City and Middlesbrough are - have not been punished and I will eat my hat if any of them actually have any points deducted. Reasons being their owners are too astute to allow it and the EFL know this. If they were going to sanction them they would have been able to do so long before now.

Because lets remember that the FFP rules haven't come in during the last year or two - they've been here for 8 years and were in the pipeline long before that. Which makes Rovers inability to cope with them even more bizarre given we were in this division when they were brought in and suffered at the hands of them back in 2015 yet are still unable to get our house in order to comply with them.

Meanwhile titans of the game like Bristol City and Boro have managed to avoid any issues despite spending considerably more than we have over the years.

I'll be amazed if that happens.

Why where they fiddling their accounts though?If they weren't overspending then no need to mess around with their accounts surely?

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

I can not include Derby and Sheff Wed because their sanctions were for breaking different rules!

You can't spend ages warning against the pitfalls of spending money on players and then use two clubs who were sanctioned for fiddling their accounts and just lump every club that recieves a sanction into the same category. Compare us to Birmingham fine as that is the benchmark. We will only emulate the other two if we do something underhand with our Brockhall sale - like backdate it or grossly inflate its value.

Their sanctions were for using prohibited accountancy tactics to try and assist them in dodging the rules.

I know it is real - my point is that only in very rare cases do overspending clubs actually get sanctioned for doing it and usually those are the clubs run by buffoons. Those clubs guilty of overspending - and it is obvious to everyone that Stoke, Bristol City and Middlesbrough are - have not been punished and I will eat my hat if any of them actually have any points deducted. Reasons being their owners are too astute to allow it and the EFL know this. If they were going to sanction them they would have been able to do so long before now.

Because lets remember that the FFP rules haven't come in during the last year or two - they've been here for 8 years and were in the pipeline long before that. Which makes Rovers inability to cope with them even more bizarre given we were in this division when they were brought in and suffered at the hands of them back in 2015 yet are still unable to get our house in order to comply with them.

Meanwhile titans of the game like Bristol City and Boro have managed to avoid any issues despite spending considerably more than we have over the years.

I'll be amazed if that happens.

They broke the rules to try and avoid FFP requirements. It's the same thing. 

[JHRover]

45 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

They broke the rules to try and avoid FFP requirements. It's the same thing. 

No it isn't. Employing dodgy accountancy practices with the aim of cheating the system is significantly worse than breaking spending limits but being honest and transparent about it. It is a different offence. One might be accidental, inadvertent or be a few quid over the limit, the other is a brazen attempt to manipulate the system using false information.

The only reason those sanctions were imposed was because of those practices. No points deduction was imposed for the offence of spending too much on players.

If it was the 'same thing' then why didn't those clubs then get separate points deductions for overspending?

The argument on here since day 1 has been that we cannot spend beyond a certain amount on players because if we do we will get a serious sanction, probably points deduction. My point has been that sanctions for such spending are rare and highly unlikely.

Though it is convenient to Waggott and co. because most people don't know what is going on and just see the words FFP and points deduction for Derby and Sheff Wed and immediately assume we would go exactly the same way if we spent anything on players.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, JHRover said:

No it isn't. Employing dodgy accountancy practices with the aim of cheating the system is significantly worse than breaking spending limits but being honest and transparent about it. It is a different offence. One might be accidental, inadvertent or be a few quid over the limit, the other is a brazen attempt to manipulate the system using false information.

The only reason those sanctions were imposed was because of those practices. No points deduction was imposed for the offence of spending too much on players.

If it was the 'same thing' then why didn't those clubs then get separate points deductions for overspending?

The argument on here since day 1 has been that we cannot spend beyond a certain amount on players because if we do we will get a serious sanction, probably points deduction. My point has been that sanctions for such spending are rare and highly unlikely.

Though it is convenient to Waggott and co. because most people don't know what is going on and just see the words FFP and points deduction for Derby and Sheff Wed and immediately assume we would go exactly the same way if we spent anything on players.

 

I think you answer yourself here.

They spent more than FFP allowed and and a club either owns up, or tries to hide it/get away with it

4 clubs who were in our division at the time have had deductions relating to breaches of FFP and/or their actions in relation to FFP 

You really think some some clubs have accidentally spent more than was allowed under the rules? Very badly run if thats the case..... 

I agree it's worse to try and cover it up, but ultimately it goes back to breaking FFP rules/guidelines in the first place 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Bigdoggsteel

[islander200]

On 17/02/2022 at 10:45, JHRover said:

We hear this sort of thing around this sort of time every year. Very rarely happens. Only 2 clubs have been docked points due to FFP breaches - Birmingham and Reading. Derby were docked points for administration and like with Sheff Wed also for employing dodgy accounting tactics to try and avoid FFP trouble, not for actually breaching FFP.

People like Coates at Stoke and Gibson at Boro are the darlings of English football. Almost universally liked/respected and just about as reliable and ideal owners as any club could want - local and loaded and in it for the long term. I'd say there's zero prospect of the League wanting or trying to sanction them and even if they tried Gibson has shown he's up for a battle and will take them on.

Bristol City have just lost over £30 million in the last year alone. It is as clear as night follows day that they will be over the 3 year limit that people often refer to. Lets see if they actually get a sanction because I don't think they will. Lansdown is another one like Gibson and Coates - the sort they don't want to upset or antagonise and the sort with the ability to take them on if they try.

Looks like you were right to be fair with them voting in amendments to FFP last night.The clubs will get away with it

[speeeeeeedie]

Bournemouth v. Forest tonight.

What result would be best for Rovers? 

Bournemouth win and they pull 3 points further away, yet Forest fall further behind? 

Or a Forest win to make it all closer?

[roversfan99]

A draw would be ideal, a Forest win would be the worst case scenario.

[oldjamfan1]

1 minute ago, speeeeeeedie said:

Bournemouth v. Forest tonight.

What result would be best for Rovers? 

Bournemouth win and they pull 3 points further away, yet Forest fall further behind? 

Or a Forest win to make it all closer?

A draw. If we then win we'll have caught 2 points up on both of them this weekend.

[islander200]

Is that game going to go ahead with people being advised not to travel?