East Lancs Cricket Club ??

[sympatheticclaret]

East Lancs now sitting bottom of the 2-tier Lancashire League, after some poor recent seasons ....

Playing without a Professional, what's gone wrong at what used to be one of the strongest Clubs in the League ??

[47er]

On 29/06/2021 at 17:55, sympatheticclaret said:

East Lancs now sitting bottom of the 2-tier Lancashire League, after some poor recent seasons ....

Playing without a Professional, what's gone wrong at what used to be one of the strongest Clubs in the League ??

Well you deserve an answer so I asked a mate of mine who knows more about local cricket than I do and this is what he said:

With regard to East Lancs, it is a tragedy. The historic ground is now situated in an Asian area and local cricket and Muslims just don't mix. It's all to do with alcohol. Normally, after an evening in the nets, the players will retire to the bar and this is how they make much of their money. The Muslim players go straight home, alcohol being banned in their religion. Some property developer wants to buy the ground to build houses but the club is fighting hard to keep it. There is so much history wrapped up in it and of course the Rovers used it for their home games in the days pre 1880 when they only played friendlies. The other week, Greenmount, who Darwen hammered in the Worsley Cup, scored around 320 for none against East Lancs, who could not muster 150 in reply.

 

[oldjamfan1]

I used to work with several East Lancs stalwarts (Ian Haworth was a very good opening bowler for them for many years) and even though I've been in Scotland for almost 30 years, this is all very sad to hear.

Conversely I met the captain of Darwen CC in Glasgow of all places a couple of years ago and they seem to be doing ok?

[Mattyblue]

Following the lead of the Old Blacks, St Mary’s College, Hole it’h Wall. So much heritage in north Blackburn, especially in sport with Blackburn Olympic and Alexandra Meadows going back to the very foundation of association football.

Yet, demographics are destiny.
 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Mattyblue

[Dreams of 1995]

11 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

 

Yet, demographics are destiny.

More than some people care to acknowledge 

I spent many a weekend with my grand parents at East Lancs. Used to love the shortbread cakes they would do in the tea house. Or jam scones. Trying to sneak a game of cricket in on the sides towards the back end of the ground. 
 

One of my better memories in life is being 16 and enjoying one of my first pints with my grandad (on the quiet). Felt a big lad at the time finally being able to enjoy a tipple from the bar that was, as a youngster, always a place I wanted to be 

 

The English culture in some parts of Lancashire has been totally eradicated. This is another in a long list of tragic stories that has happened under the guise of multiculturalism.

[jim mk2]

On 30/06/2021 at 12:59, 47er said:

Well you deserve an answer so I asked a mate of mine who knows more about local cricket than I do and this is what he said:

With regard to East Lancs, it is a tragedy. The historic ground is now situated in an Asian area and local cricket and Muslims just don't mix. It's all to do with alcohol. Normally, after an evening in the nets, the players will retire to the bar and this is how they make much of their money. The Muslim players go straight home, alcohol being banned in their religion. Some property developer wants to buy the ground to build houses but the club is fighting hard to keep it. There is so much history wrapped up in it and of course the Rovers used it for their home games in the days pre 1880 when they only played friendlies. The other week, Greenmount, who Darwen hammered in the Worsley Cup, scored around 320 for none against East Lancs, who could not muster 150 in reply.

 

 

Sorry 47er, this doesn't ring true

I've been involved in club cricket for 50 years plus. A senior club such as East Lancs doesn't fail because it's not taking money over the bar., which will barely pay for the electricity and gas bills The primary source of income will come from sponsorship or, maybe a sugar daddy, probably an ex-player who has made good and wants to put money back into his club. This might explain why East Lancs don't have a pro this season

A senior club like East Lancs will also traditionally have attracted players from a wide area, not just a small part of Blackburn, so the idea that because it is situated in an "Asian" area (are all the pupils at QEGS Asian now too?) it doesn't follow that all the players are now Asian. In fact, looking at the scorecard from the recent game in which East Lancs lost heavily to Bacup, 10 of the 11 surnames appear to be "British", with only one Asian player.

I used to go down the nets at the Meadows as a young lad, and it's sad to hear about the club's decline, but I'd suggest the club is being badly run and needs a shake-up from the top down (rather like Rovers). 

Edited July 1, 2021 by jim mk2

[Mattyblue]

QEGS is probably 75%+ Asian these days, yes. But I digress.

I’d say some of the problem will be lack of walk on crowds or weekend drinkers. Clubs like Darwen, Enfield, Lowerhouse etc attract big crowds for their 20/20 evening games etc. Even historically much smaller clubs like Cherry Tree, Feni have a packed clubhouse night after night. There just isn’t that local demographic in the Dukes Brow/Revidge area anymore that will wander to East Lancs for some beers or to watch a game.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Mattyblue

[47er]

6 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Sorry 47er, this doesn't ring true

I've been involved in club cricket for 50 years plus. A senior club such as East Lancs doesn't fail because it's not taking money over the bar., which will barely pay for the electricity and gas bills The primary source of income will come from sponsorship or, maybe a sugar daddy, probably an ex-player who has made good and wants to put money back into his club. This might explain why East Lancs don't have a pro this season

A senior club like East Lancs will also traditionally have attracted players from a wide area, not just a small part of Blackburn, so the idea that because it is situated in an "Asian" area (are all the pupils at QEGS Asian now too?) it doesn't follow that all the players are now Asian. In fact, looking at the scorecard from the recent game in which East Lancs lost heavily to Bacup, 10 of the 11 surnames appear to be "British", with only one Asian player.

I used to go down the nets at the Meadows as a young lad, and it's sad to hear about the club's decline, but I'd suggest the club is being badly run and needs a shake-up from the top down (rather like Rovers). 

I merely passed on info from a mate, I personally have no idea.

[Roving Mick]

Obvious solution is for Venky's to pull out of Rovers, write off all the debts,  then take over East Lancs.

It would be a return to their first love - Cricket.

They would be welcomed with open arms and it wouldn't cost them anywhere near as much as Rovers.

Can we not find ourselves a good conman?

[jim mk2]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

I merely passed on info from a mate, I personally have no idea.

 Yes, I realise that but his views, like "demographics are destiny", are little more than dogwhistle racism. Like every failing entity,.......business, country or BRFC.....the problems at East Lancs are down to the way the club is being managed. Where the club is situated in the town and the changing nature of the local populace is irrelevant . 

[47er]

13 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 Yes, I realise that but his views, like "demographics are destiny", are little more than dogwhistle racism. Like every failing entity,.......business, country or BRFC.....the problems at East Lancs are down to the way the club is being managed. Where the club is situated in the town and the changing nature of the local populace is irrelevant . 

Actually he hasn't got a racist bone in his body, he's just saying what he thinks is happening, without making any judgement at all.

I think cricket is a great way in which we can all assist integration by the way. I was walking down by Avenham Park a while back with Pakistani youths playing cricket in the street ( boys only sadly) just like we did. I keep waiting for them to be well represented in our county side and for England. Only happens fitfully.

Why?

[Dreams of 1995]

I think it is pie in the sky stuff to say local populace is irrelevant. And demographics being destiny is not dog whistle racism either.

Demographics defines demand. In local areas where there is a high Muslim population it stands to reason pubs, betting agencies, non-Halal butchers etc all are deemed surplus to requirements. Therefore, long standing businesses like those will erode as the demographic changes. They will be replaced by new businesses which cater better for the needs of the new demographic. This goes for gentrifcation too. When younger people move in to an area the whole business ethos of that area changes. Demographics changed the destiny of that postcode / region or whatever.

You only need to look at how the surrounding area of the East Lancs cricket ground has changed in my lifetime alone to see that demand in that area will change. In a club that apparently relied heavily on bar purchases for turnover it is no surprise that, when the crowds dwindle and do not get replaced with likeminded people, that turnover drastically falls.

Compare with the likes of Cherry Tree which has a younger, British population, more likely to drink alcohol, and where the club house is rocking every weekend. They aren't taking new members at the moment - or at least wasn't when I last checked. This is a total turnaround from 15/20 years ago. This is the same for Read, Feni, Darwen etc.

I remember my Grandad telling me East Lancs has had financial difficulties for some time but if that vital bar turnover has been taken away then that only furthers the burden.

It won't solely be down to demographic change but it has definitely had an impact, otherwise he would not have mentioned the reduced bar income.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Dreams of 1995

[jim mk2]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

Actually he hasn't got a racist bone in his body, he's just saying what he thinks is happening, without making any judgement at all.

I think cricket is a great way in which we can all assist integration by the way. I was walking down by Avenham Park a while back with Pakistani youths playing cricket in the street ( boys only sadly) just like we did. I keep waiting for them to be well represented in our county side and for England. Only happens fitfully.

Why?

There's been a few - Rashid (sp?) and Ali of Asian origin have been fixtures in the England teams in various formats for many years. Hameed and Mahood of Lancs have been involved. I expect there to be more as time goes on. They've taken some stick, especially Ali, in racist countries like Australia, where he'd told "he's not English"

As far as East Lancs is concerned, we didn't live in the area but ours and our friends' families, like many others, travelled miles to play and watch matches. Folk came from all over Blackburn to watch East Lancs, not just the Revidge area, so the idea that it depends on players / spectators / bar income from that area isn't true. Many  other Lancashire League clubs have Asians populations in their environs yet still attract reasonable size crowds, though nothing like the numbers of years ago. 

Cherry Tree CC is supposedly in an area with a "younger British population" yet its 1st XI photo shows 3 or 4 obviously Asian lads compared to one in the East Lancs team. How does that work? The idea that Asian players don't stay behind to soclalise after a game is wrong too - they do. And a  club that depends bar income for its financial wellbeing is not a well run cricket club, as East Lancs plainly isn't at present. 

[47er]

Jim---I was one of them. I remember chatting to the then pro Bruce Doolan! I was about 5! We regarded East Lancs as Blackburn's team.

My Dad and I followed East Lancs for away games ---Rishton,Church, Rawtenstall, Colne. The gate doubled or trebled when East Lancs were playing.

Don't make an argument where there isn't one eh?

[Mattyblue]

You want to retract that statement, Jim?

[Dreams of 1995]

6 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Cherry Tree CC is supposedly in an area with a "younger British population" yet its 1st XI photo shows 3 or 4 obviously Asian lads compared to one in the East Lancs team. How does that work? The idea that Asian players don't stay behind to soclalise after a game is wrong too - they do. And a  club that depends bar income for its financial wellbeing is not a well run cricket club, as East Lancs plainly isn't at present. 

Take yourself down to East Lancs on Saturday, and then take yourself down to Cherry Tree

Come back on here and talk about how demographic doesn’t matter 

You are living in the past 

[jim mk2]

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Take yourself down to East Lancs on Saturday, and then take yourself down to Cherry Tree

Come back on here and talk about how demographic doesn’t matter 

You are living in the past 

I have in the recent past and I know both clubs - which is more than you can say

You don't know what you're talking about 

 

[Ewood Ace]

8 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

There's been a few - Rashid (sp?) and Ali of Asian origin have been fixtures in the England teams in various formats for many years. Hameed and Mahood of Lancs have been involved. I expect there to be more as time goes on. They've taken some stick, especially Ali, in racist countries like Australia, where he'd told "he's not English"

As far as East Lancs is concerned, we didn't live in the area but ours and our friends' families, like many others, travelled miles to play and watch matches. Folk came from all over Blackburn to watch East Lancs, not just the Revidge area, so the idea that it depends on players / spectators / bar income from that area isn't true. Many  other Lancashire League clubs have Asians populations in their environs yet still attract reasonable size crowds, though nothing like the numbers of years ago. 

Cherry Tree CC is supposedly in an area with a "younger British population" yet its 1st XI photo shows 3 or 4 obviously Asian lads compared to one in the East Lancs team. How does that work? The idea that Asian players don't stay behind to soclalise after a game is wrong too - they do. And a  club that depends bar income for its financial wellbeing is not a well run cricket club, as East Lancs plainly isn't at present. 

I fail to see how Asian players results in having a bad cricket team, the Bradford League which has a large amount of Asian players is one of if not the strongest domestic league in the country and has been for a long time. Also surely Covid would have had more of an affect on the bar income than having Asian players.

There have been a fair few players of Asian origins play for England. The 4 you mention but also Samit Patel, Ravi Bopara, Min Patel, Vikram Solanki, Zafar Ansari, Ajmal Shazhad, Kabir Ali, Monty Panesar, Nasser Hussian, Usman Afzaal. Cricket's biggest problem today is not the involvement of the British Asian community but of the Black British community which is very underrepresented in the game in this country.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Ewood Ace

[jim mk2]

1 minute ago, Ewood Ace said:

I fail to see how Asian players results in having a bad cricket team, the Bradford League which has a large amount of Asian players is one of if not the strongest domestic league in the country and has been for a long time. Also surely Covid would have had more of an affect on the bar income than having Asian players.

I think you've misunderstood. It's not about results, but the contention that East Lancs as a club has declined because (according to some) it's in an area that is now mainly Asian. The fact the East Lancs 1st XI last weekend had 10 "white" players seems to have passed some people by

[Mattyblue]

Edit

Edited July 2, 2021 by Mattyblue

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

I think you've misunderstood. It's not about results, but the contention that East Lancs as a club has declined because (according to some) it's in an area that is now mainly Asian. 

I was saying that I fail to see how that can be a reason for a clubs decline given that Bradford has a massive Asian community and yet has one of if not the strongest domestic league in the country. It also has a large percentage of players from the Asian community play in it. 

[jim mk2]

6 hours ago, 47er said:

Jim---I was one of them. I remember chatting to the then pro Bruce Doolan! I was about 5! We regarded East Lancs as Blackburn's team.

My Dad and I followed East Lancs for away games ---Rishton,Church, Rawtenstall, Colne. The gate doubled or trebled when East Lancs were playing.

Don't make an argument where there isn't one eh?

That was years ago (presumably). Crowds across the game have dwindled since then. East Lancs as a club has declined since then; clubs come and go (like Rovers). Blaming it on racist dogwhistles such as "demographics are destiny" is plain wrong through

[Mattyblue]

Right had enough now. Second time you’ve said that, please retract it.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Mattyblue

[jim mk2]

1 minute ago, Ewood Ace said:

I was saying that I fail to see how that can be a reason for a clubs decline given that Bradford has a massive Asian community and yet has one of if not the strongest domestic league in the country. It also has a large percentage of players from the Asian community play in it. 

The East Lancs 1st XI is local white (10 out of the 11 last weekend). Maybe they're just not good enough. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

Jim---I was one of them. I remember chatting to the then pro Bruce Doolan! I was about 5! We regarded East Lancs as Blackburn's team.

My Dad and I followed East Lancs for away games ---Rishton,Church, Rawtenstall, Colne. The gate doubled or trebled when East Lancs were playing.

Don't make an argument where there isn't one eh?

I think that was Bruce Dooland. Must be 60 years ago !