England

[Mattyblue]

It doesn’t ‘even out’ though as qualifying groups were much tougher. Yes, an odd poor team back in Lineker’s day, but now half the group will be either part timers or very small nations.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Mattyblue

[joey_big_nose]

53 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Lineker scored goals against Turkey.  In those days Turkey were a very poor side. Nowadays alot better like most smaller nations.  The level of football has improved significantly in the last 30 years. So it evens itself out

I think qualifying worked a bit differently 80s and before.  The tiny nations weren't in there and the groups were a lot smaller.

Eg. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)

Malta are in there, but no San Marino, Andorra, Lichtenstein, Gibraltar.

Pre qualification is obviously needed, and I think it's on its way. Nations League will eventually replace qualification imo.

[RoverinYorkshire]

15 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

It is pointless but if there is a preliminary qualifying group San Marino would finish bottom of that too. 

How would that group fit in with the schedule? They'd have to play more matches just to get into a group then more than likely would be the whipping boys all over again. 

The pitch is a mess too. 

Could there not be a competition for the lowest ranked teams, run simultaneously to the WC, where the top 6 (or whatever) then qualify for the qualifiers. Then the worst 6 qualifiers swap places with them? Wouldn't be too different to the Europa League & old intertoto and no extra matches Vs what they would have played anyway.

[roversfan99]

Or integrated into the Nations League?

[speeeeeeedie]

2 hours ago, RoverinYorkshire said:

Could there not be a competition for the lowest ranked teams, run simultaneously to the WC, where the top 6 (or whatever) then qualify for the qualifiers. Then the worst 6 qualifiers swap places with them? Wouldn't be too different to the Europa League & old intertoto and no extra matches Vs what they would have played anyway.

FIFA wouldn't go for anything on at the same time as the World Cup. They want as many eyes as possible, even from nations with 10 people.

I don't think that there is a way to remove the small teams from qualification, but I think that their presence can be limited.

There are 55 teams in UEFA qualifying vying for 13 spots. Next time out start with 18 groups of 3. Each team is seeded and palin one of 3 pots. Rank 54 and 55 have an elimination play in game to get the last spot.

The top 2 from each group goes through to the real group stage - 6 groups of 6 with the top 2 in each group qualifying for the World Cup. I haven't thought about what to do for the 13th berth yet.

Each team would play 4 games in the first phase, that's only 2 international breaks, it could even be done over 2 weeks early summer. Then the groups stage carries on as we currently see it. Teams that make it play 14 qualifiers. Similar to now including friendlies on off weeks.

Or do something similar to what CONCACAF does with the top 5 FIFA ranked teams automatically qualifying for the last stage, and the rest play a round robin prelim stage plus a final knockout round to get one of 3 spots. Numbers would change but the premise would be the same.

 

[The Mighty Chaffinch]

As international football has become more of a squad exercise then I think the retention of the minnow nations is fairly important as it allows teams like England to rotate the team and rest players where appropriate. Southgate changed seven between Albania and San Marino…thirty years ago that would have been unheard of as the ‘best’ available XI usually started every match regardless of the opposition. We’ve rotated the squad in all four matches against Andorra and San Marino and it has given players like Connor Gallagher, Emile Smith-Rowe and Aaron Ramsdale a taste of international football. Plus, being utterly and unashamedly greedy…when you support Rovers, it’s nice to see your national side banging in ten goals and romping through another qualification campaign…definitely not what we see each week at Ewood!!!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I see the England U-21’s lost 3-2 in Georgia. They were losing 3-0 at one point, Ex Rover loaner Harwood-Bellis got on as a sub late in the game.

[roverandout]

Watching bales v Belgium.  Can't believe how bad Belgium are. Take de bruyne hazard lukaku out this team, they're so average.  Compared to when they had their golden generation these new players are levels below that 

[simongarnerisgod]

2 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Watching bales v Belgium.  Can't believe how bad Belgium are. Take de bruyne hazard lukaku out this team, they're so average.  Compared to when they had their golden generation these new players are levels below that 

belgium have already qualified,they are hardly likely to be putting the effort in,the big problem with belgium is their manager,he`s useless!!

[roverandout]

1 minute ago, simongarnerisgod said:

belgium have already qualified,they are hardly likely to be putting the effort in,the big problem with belgium is their manager,he`s useless!!

I agree. He tries to play Brazil 1970 tika tika without Brazil 1970 standard players.  But their level of players is also alot lower than 5 years ago

[roverandout]

Having watched most of the 'big teams' recently.  We have nothing to fear. England have probably been the most impressive side.  Maybe along with France Germany.  Yes the opposition are poor but 15 goals in 2 games with a plethora of players missing, we have great options.  A year can make a big difference but we have some outstanding options.  Maybe up front could be a problem but if mason Greenwood can find his feet plus dcl to come back.  Abraham looks decent.  Perhaps toney at Brentford might offer a different option.  But when u look at our fullback options wide options and especially attacking midfield, there's very few teams that can compete.  Even our keeper options look good now with Pickford ramsdale playing well (Pickford for England mostly). Henderson gets a loan move. Pope at Burnley.  Johnstone will probably get a prem move.  Also think midfield is looking better with Rice been outstanding.  Phillips industrious.  Henderson has still got it. Bellingham looks a star. I'm very positive 

 

Edit forgot about centreback.  Maguire stones as dependable as ever. Tomori ghuei gomez konsa white all look good defenders.  Mings is OK. Coady looks ok

Edited November 16, 2021 by roverandout

[roversfan99]

Nothing can be read into hammering the 2 crap teams of the last week. We with a couple of jitters sailed through a piss poor qualification group, nothing to see here. But absolutely nothing can be learnt from beating San Marino.

 

[roverandout]

Yes but how many top teams sailed through their group? Italy? Portugal? Holland? Spain? It's pretty disingenuous to decry England's achievement when other big nations haven't exactly flown through their groups.  Top scorers in qualifying.  We haven't lost all year. No matter who it's against no one can deny this is a very good England team 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Yes but how many top teams sailed through their group? Italy? Portugal? Holland? Spain? It's pretty disingenuous to decry England's achievement when other big nations haven't exactly flown through their groups.  Top scorers in qualifying.  We haven't lost all year. No matter who it's against no one can deny this is a very good England team 

We’re short of a “ Gazza “ in central midfield. A playmaker who can direct the traffic. With a bit of luck Foden might become that player in time.

[roverandout]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We’re short of a “ Gazza “ in central midfield. A playmaker who can direct the traffic. With a bit of luck Foden might become that player in time.

I agree but I think rice and Phillips suit this England team perfectly.  Having that excellent cover in midfield allows our attacking players the freedom to express themselves.  Also gives great cover to the defenders.  We tried the fantasy team against Hungary and we were overpowered and outnumbered in that game

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, roverandout said:

I agree but I think rice and Phillips suit this England team perfectly.  Having that excellent cover in midfield allows our attacking players the freedom to express themselves.  Also gives great cover to the defenders.  We tried the fantasy team against Hungary and we were overpowered and outnumbered in that game

The lack of a playmaker was badly shown up in the final against Italy.

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Yes but how many top teams sailed through their group? Italy? Portugal? Holland? Spain? It's pretty disingenuous to decry England's achievement when other big nations haven't exactly flown through their groups.  Top scorers in qualifying.  We haven't lost all year. No matter who it's against no one can deny this is a very good England team 

Qualifying is a means to an end, some of those teams had much stronger opposition, Italy have had a bit of post victory complacency and Holland are crap.

We lost the most important game of the year unfortunately. 

Not denying that we have some very good players and albeit with a favourable draw, came so close to winning a tournament but like I said, nothing can be learnt really from smashing teams full of players that went back to their day jobs today. Nothing.

[roverandout]

5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The lack of a playmaker was badly shown up in the final against Italy.

I wouldn’t call Verratti or jorginho playmaker, they're very good at retaining possession.  Playing it simple.  That's all we need that type of player. If Harry Winks or Loftus-Cheek can regain some form they could be an answer.  Brazil won the 94 World Cup with dunga in midfield 

[roversfan99]

Neither Loftus Cheek or Winks will ever come close to dominating anything near the biggest of games. Neither are particularly good, especially Winks.

There is something in the methodology of building around our own strengths and minimising our weaknesses, which perhaps leads to a more pragmatic midfield. Bellingham is the obvious break through star although not a typical playmaker himself.

[roverandout]

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Neither Loftus Cheek or Winks will ever come close to dominating anything near the biggest of games. Neither are particularly good, especially Winks.

There is something in the methodology of building around our own strengths and minimising our weaknesses, which perhaps leads to a more pragmatic midfield. Bellingham is the obvious break through star although not a typical playmaker himself.

Winks always did a good job for England when he played. He retained possession.  Loftus-Cheek was excellent at Chelsea before his injury.  He scored quite alot of goals for them on the Europa League run

[Mattyblue]

12 hours ago, The Mighty Chaffinch said:

As international football has become more of a squad exercise then I think the retention of the minnow nations is fairly important as it allows teams like England to rotate the team and rest players where appropriate. Southgate changed seven between Albania and San Marino…thirty years ago that would have been unheard of as the ‘best’ available XI usually started every match regardless of the opposition. We’ve rotated the squad in all four matches against Andorra and San Marino and it has given players like Connor Gallagher, Emile Smith-Rowe and Aaron Ramsdale a taste of international football. Plus, being utterly and unashamedly greedy…when you support Rovers, it’s nice to see your national side banging in ten goals and romping through another qualification campaign…definitely not what we see each week at Ewood!!!

Yeah I’m sure the FA are happy enough, get to rotate, blood new players, promote U21s, the likes of Kane can improve his goal tally etc etc.

But surely UEFA are the ones that need to look at the farcical amount of part time sides playing elite professional players in these groups… England had four matches against actual amateur teams! FOUR! Yet they are allowing more, Gibraltar being a recent inclusion.

Of course, they should get to play international football, but there is surely some mechanism for it to be done via a pre-qualifying system and/or the Nations League and stop these ridiculous mismatches.

[roverandout]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Yeah I’m sure the FA are happy enough, get to rotate, blood new players, promote U21s, the likes of Kane can improve his goal tally etc etc.

But surely UEFA are the ones that need to look at the farcical amount of part time sides playing elite professional players in these groups… England had four matches against actual amateur teams! FOUR! Yet they are allowing more, Gibraltar being a recent inclusion.

Of course, they should get to play international football, but there is surely some mechanism for it to be done via a pre-qualifying system and/or the Nations League and stop these ridiculous mismatches.

Shame Scotland weren't in our group.  We could have had 6

[LeftWinger]

12 hours ago, roverandout said:

Loftus-Cheek was excellent at Chelsea before his injury.  He scored quite alot of goals for them on the Europa League run

75% of those goals came in one game against a Belarusian side.

In fact, he scored 20% of his entire careers goals in that game.

[oldjamfan1]

2 hours ago, roverandout said:

Shame Scotland weren't in our group.  We could have had 6

I think that joke would have worked better 12 months ago mate but they aren’t doing too badly at the minute and of course held us to a 0-0 not that long ago 😂

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I think that joke would have worked better 12 months ago mate but they aren’t doing too badly at the minute and of course held us to a 0-0 not that long ago 😂

Shows you what a difference a good coach can make. How many of the Scots players would get into the England squad never mind the team.