England

[Oldgregg86]

3 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Yeah, I think the NL is good. You wouldn't have got a game like that in a friendly. Hungary absolutely ecstatic. Playing 4 games at the end of the season when we have the season starting early due to WC is a bit mad. But it's the same for everyone.

Southgates got a massive problem now. What's his best team? What's his best formation? Basically everything has been rubbish and hasn't worked.

Probably given how poor our defence has been it will be back to 343. And we have 2 games against Italy and Germany to get it right. This will likely be Southgates preferred XI imo.

                            Pickford

         Walker.      Stones.    Maguire

James.     Rice.      Bellingham.     Shaw. 

          Sterling.     Kane.    Mount

Issue is out of that who truly is in form and confident? England are producing a lot of good attacking players but no one really dominant. And defensively we are going backwards.... Hmmm...

 

Don’t disagree to much with that apart from foden absolutely has to start when fit

[Guest]

We haven't got the midfielders to play a 5 at the back. Been like watching Rovers back end of last season these last few games. 

Any team who plays 3 in the middle we'll instantly struggle against, too much space to the side of them.

We have to go to a 433, defensively more exposed which isn't ideal in knockout football, but we need to protect our weakest areas (CM) not expose them. It also, imo, leaves Trent AA at home. Can't be relied upon in a one of game to not let the ball roll across him (see champions league final)

Sancho and Rashford could be key as said above, Sterling couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo and mount IS NOT A FECKING WINGER. Southgate's got a bit of the Mowbray's at the moment. RB's at left back etc.

I also think it showed the importance of Declan Rice, he's not worth 100 million, but he's 3 times the player Kalvin Phillips is.

Anyway, the NL is a good idea, but the timing of it is stupidity. Our lot are back in pre season already, whilst these players are yet to even have a break. An early starting season too is just asking for Harry Kane to tear his hammy in mid October and miss the world cup. It's an absolute farce and turned what should be competitive games into absolute snooze fests and glorified friendlies.

One thing it's shown Southgate is which players are squad players but not starters just yet.

My lineup would be: 

Walker Maguire Tomori Chilwell (when fit)

Rice Bellingham Mount

Saka Kane Foden

Plenty of options from the bench, the problem is I can see that bench being full of other CB's and RB's, (Mings Coady White Trippier James Trent) rather than attackers. Let's not forget that the Euros initial squad he released had FOUR right backs in it.

 

[joey_big_nose]

5 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Don’t disagree to much with that apart from foden absolutely has to start when fit

I've never really been that impressed with him for England. But can say same about Mount, Rashford, Sancho, Grealish. All struggled to really be convincing. Part of our problem.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I’m lost for words with England at the moment. Watching them play is like having teeth pulled. We’ll need a genius manager to get a tune out of those players in the World Cup and Southgate is about as far from a genius as you can get. 
 

“ Private Eye “ will be printing that old cartoon again. The players are filing down the steps from the plane at the airport, the pilot opens the cockpit window and says - “ Shall I leave the engines running lads ? “

[joey_big_nose]

3 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

We haven't got the midfielders to play a 5 at the back. Been like watching Rovers back end of last season these last few games. 

Any team who plays 3 in the middle we'll instantly struggle against, too much space to the side of them.

We have to go to a 433, defensively more exposed which isn't ideal in knockout football, but we need to protect our weakest areas (CM) not expose them. It also, imo, leaves Trent AA at home. Can't be relied upon in a one of game to not let the ball roll across him (see champions league final)

Sancho and Rashford could be key as said above, Sterling couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo and mount IS NOT A FECKING WINGER. Southgate's got a bit of the Mowbray's at the moment. RB's at left back etc.

I also think it showed the importance of Declan Rice, he's not worth 100 million, but he's 3 times the player Kalvin Phillips is.

Anyway, the NL is a good idea, but the timing of it is stupidity. Our lot are back in pre season already, whilst these players are yet to even have a break. An early starting season too is just asking for Harry Kane to tear his hammy in mid October and miss the world cup. It's an absolute farce and turned what should be competitive games into absolute snooze fests and glorified friendlies.

One thing it's shown Southgate is which players are squad players but not starters just yet.

My lineup would be: 

Walker Maguire Tomori Chilwell (when fit)

Rice Bellingham Mount

Saka Kane Foden

Plenty of options from the bench, the problem is I can see that bench being full of other CB's and RB's, (Mings Coady White Trippier James Trent) rather than attackers. Let's not forget that the Euros initial squad he released had FOUR right backs in it.

 

Interesting see how opinions differ. That defence imo would get absolutely eaten alive by Italy and Germany. From a defensive point of view we are much stronger in midfield than defence imo. Rice, Philips, Bellingham, Henderson are all very strong defensive players.

That said I agree offensively in midfield we have a problem as there's no real creative passing quality. I've thought a big issue for us is we lack someone like a higher quality Harry Winks who can pick the right forward passes from around the centre circle. Top teams need someone like that. But since Winks faded away there's not a single midfielder in the England setup who likes to try and pass from deep. Maybe Henderson on a good day. But all our mids are more "box to box". Great if we are playing an end to end game, but if we are up against a defensive setup - as we will be often, like last night- we run out of ideas very quickly.

[roverandout]

42 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Agree with Kane. He seems to have totally changed his game in a way that suits Spurs but not England. England need him to channel Shearer, but instead he prefers being Dennis Bergkamp to Son's Henry. We don't need him messing about in an already congested midfield despite his excellent passing.

Also whats frustrating is three of our outstanding creative talents don't really seem to be kicking on - Grealish, Sancho, Foden. Plus Rashford whose never convinced at international level is going backwards too...

 

U can't say foden isn't kicking on. Last season was his best season.  For England he's never really Been given a chance 

[roverandout]

27 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I've never really been that impressed with him for England. But can say same about Mount, Rashford, Sancho, Grealish. All struggled to really be convincing. Part of our problem.

Mount doesn't deliver for England but as for grealish he makes a huge impact....of the bench. Sancho needs a run in the team but his assists stats for England aren't bad. Foden never gets a run but when he does he looks like the only player with a bit of magic 

[riverholmes]

There is simply too much professional football and it's unfair to put players through it. No Nations League player deserves criticism for a poor performance when they are being mistreated like this by the authorities. The pro game is becoming, as far as I can tell, ever more demanding physically and they are being asked to play more tournaments.

Edited June 15, 2022 by riverholmes

[Mattyblue]

The NL is obviously going to stay, fine, but it should’ve been scrapped this cycle due to the winter World Cup, as crowbarring in four fixtures in ten days in the middle of June does nobody any favours.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Mattyblue

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

42 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Interesting see how opinions differ. That defence imo would get absolutely eaten alive by Italy and Germany. From a defensive point of view we are much stronger in midfield than defence imo. Rice, Philips, Bellingham, Henderson are all very strong defensive players.

That said I agree offensively in midfield we have a problem as there's no real creative passing quality. I've thought a big issue for us is we lack someone like a higher quality Harry Winks who can pick the right forward passes from around the centre circle. Top teams need someone like that. But since Winks faded away there's not a single midfielder in the England setup who likes to try and pass from deep. Maybe Henderson on a good day. But all our mids are more "box to box". Great if we are playing an end to end game, but if we are up against a defensive setup - as we will be often, like last night- we run out of ideas very quickly.

We’re crying out for a Gazza who can run with the ball instead of running after it.

[joey_big_nose]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We’re crying out for a Gazza who can run with the ball instead of running after it.

I'd say weve got a lot of those - Grealish, Sancho, Foden, Bellingham, Sterling all love running with the ball and are good at it. For me it's the passing that's the issue.

[RoverDom]

Forden probably the best of them for end product? 

 

Southgate gets hammered but how many england players have stood up and said "pick me" with their performances this season? Bowen, Rice and James this season? (I don't know much of the lads who play abroad so may be diddling them). So of course he has to rotate the squad this summer.

How many people have said "not maguire"?  fair enough but if not maguire then we have to look at other options which means chopping and changing. Or would you rather he picks a centre back at random and looks at no one else? We've got depth but also a lot of players not in form so there's going to be some tinkering because the 11 or so players who got us to the final aren't doing it right now. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

23 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I'd say weve got a lot of those - Grealish, Sancho, Foden, Bellingham, Sterling all love running with the ball and are good at it. For me it's the passing that's the issue.

They run with it but they rarely go past people. Gazza took opponents out of the game with his ability to go past players with the ball under his spell.

[RoverDom]

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

They run with it but they rarely go past people. Gazza took opponents out of the game with his ability to go past players with the ball under his spell.

A better version of Joe Rothwell is what we need

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

A better version of Joe Rothwell is what we need

Dunny was born at the wrong time. He’d be a shoe in for this team if he was fit.

[joey_big_nose]

19 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Dunny was born at the wrong time. He’d be a shoe in for this team if he was fit.

I loved Dunn, great player for us, should have had a better career. But he's nowhere near the orbit of the likes of Grealish or Foden. Grealish is a very similar player and - to me anyway - obviously much better. Quicker, more technical, better with his weaker foot. Much as I love him I don't think Pep would be signing Dunn.

The former Rover this team desperately needs is Tugay.

29 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

A better version of Joe Rothwell is what we need

If that is what we need we could just put Grealish in central midfield. He'd carry the ball forward very effectively from deep.  But like with Joe there's a trade off - loses the ball in dangerous areas, lacks postional discipline, not physical enough. That said given how unimaginative our midfield has been, and that we don't have a Tugay, I wouldnt be against Grealish being given a shot centrally.

[Oldgregg86]

5 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Dunny was born at the wrong time. He’d be a shoe in for this team if he was fit.

Don’t worry am pretty confident dack will be fit for November 😉

if not can we not get Diaz back to brereton the way rice changed 😁

[ben_the_beast]

Southgate being so obsessed with a defensive screen in his midfield is what makes us struggle, coupled with the fact he has those midfielders in very rigid formations. Rice is excellent, Phillips a capable deputy, but together their defensive nature actually makes us more vulnerable as neither of them have the agility to twist and turn in centre mid and dominate the ball. They don't move it quickly enough and struggle to keep possession under real pressure. 

Southgate also loves Mount but as an attacking midfielder. Play him deeper and he'd solve a lot of our problems. He's good at everything. Excellent on the ball, can run for days etc; but he doesn't contribute enough as an attacking midfielder. We have the combinations for a 3 man midfield with both energy and fluidity. Rice, Bellingham, Mount or Rice, Foden and Mount. 

Agree with the poster who mentioned Trent. Given our quality right backs he should not be in the squad. Unbelievable going forwards but it strikes me that he believes his own hype and thinks about assists before every game. He needs some Italian blood in him, celebrating clean sheets like goals. 

We've one of the best squads in my lifetime. There are weaker areas, but I don't think Southgate either covers those areas or creates systems where our best players can shine. He's had success so far with some luck. Personally I think he's been brilliant, but more for his off pitch demeanour. Sometimes it was hard to really love England and what group stood for. Southgate came along and it became a group you could be proud of. Weirdly that's the main reason I'm not calling for a change, but I do think he's lacking tactically. 

[roverandout]

Well done to our under 19s for winning the euros. Amazed that there's so little fuss over this in the media 

[rigger]

16 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Well done to our under 19s for winning the euros. Amazed that there's so little fuss over this in the media 

But as various people on here keep saying. It's only kids football.

[Silas]

39 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Well done to our under 19s for winning the euros. Amazed that there's so little fuss over this in the media 

Indeed. There was a time there was a lot of talking about grass roots and lower age foundations being needed. Follow the German and Spanish models.

Now we've won 2 in 4 Euro tournaments at U19 no-one seems to care.

Probably because the senior team has actually got quite decent. 

The shouting about it was back when we could barely win a knockout tie. 

We must think the job is done. 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roverandout said:

Well done to our under 19s for winning the euros. Amazed that there's so little fuss over this in the media 

how did they play? formation and style?

[roverandout]

34 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

how did they play? formation and style?

Poor first half but alot better second half.  Israel played the better football 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

The thing is we’ve seen this before. They think they’ve got it made at 19 and it’s all about “ Rolex “ watches and “Lamborghinis  “,  football goes out of the window. In five years time half of them will be where Harry Chapman is now.

[speeeeeeedie]

6 hours ago, Silas said:

Indeed. There was a time there was a lot of talking about grass roots and lower age foundations being needed. Follow the German and Spanish models.

Now we've won 2 in 4 Euro tournaments at U19 no-one seems to care.

Probably because the senior team has actually got quite decent. 

The shouting about it was back when we could barely win a knockout tie. 

We must think the job is done. 

Although an achievement worth celebrating the primary purpose of the u-19's is to have players move up to the full national team. The last winning team included Aaron Ramsdale, Mason Mount, and Reece James who are currently in Southgate's set up. I Looked up the squad; England Euro u-19's 2017

Edun and Brereton were also in it. As is a lad who now plays for Southport.

If the 2022 team can have multiple players break move up then the development team continue to do their job.

From what I read Chukwumeka (sp?) from Villa was the stand out player for England.