England

[roverandout]

Ukraine are worse than England.  They need a goal so instead they try to play tippy tippy Brazil 1970 football.  They're shit

[roverstdt]

I think at the end of the day Southgate knows his team, the issue of loyalty is good and bad i think people forget he does make the tough decision when he need too, as i see Maguire situation very similar to Dier situation at the last tournament. Dier has played his way back into the team. I actually feel we look stronger as a squad than the last tournament. 

Personally the chat of Tomori is pre-mature everyone is raving about him but i am sure few have seen him play. I would like to see the following line up against Iran. As for AA i like but out of form and James defends better the last think we need in a leaky defence is someone who doesn't defend. 

 

-----------------Pickford----------------

James--Dier--Stones--Shaw 

--------Rice----Bellingham--------

Saka----------Foden-----Sterling

--------------Kane-------------

 

Edit: it is what i wish we do but i know Southgate will probably do 523 but I think Foden is better down the middle 

Edited September 27, 2022 by roverstdt

[RoverDom]

I'm a Southgate fan but one thing that does bug me is a reluctance to try anyone else. I can see the benefit of playing your preferred team so that they get minutes playing together but at the same time I'm sick of seeing Kane get 90 mins in meaningless games.

[Admiral Nelsen]

12 hours ago, roverstdt said:

I think at the end of the day Southgate knows his team, the issue of loyalty is good and bad i think people forget he does make the tough decision when he need too, as i see Maguire situation very similar to Dier situation at the last tournament. Dier has played his way back into the team. I actually feel we look stronger as a squad than the last tournament. 

Personally the chat of Tomori is pre-mature everyone is raving about him but i am sure few have seen him play. I would like to see the following line up against Iran. As for AA i like but out of form and James defends better the last think we need in a leaky defence is someone who doesn't defend. 

 

-----------------Pickford----------------

James--Dier--Stones--Shaw 

--------Rice----Bellingham--------

Saka----------Foden-----Sterling

--------------Kane-------------

 

Edit: it is what i wish we do but i know Southgate will probably do 523 but I think Foden is better down the middle 

 

I'd much prefer us to play four at the back against the lesser sides, but an issue that we have with pretty much all of our domestic-based centre backs (Stones aside) is that you don't really trust them in a two. Shouldn't be a massive issue in the group - touch wood - but once we play some of the better sides I'd be much happier if whomever we choose from Maguire/Dier/Walker weren't as exposed. 

[RoversTilliDie]

15 hours ago, roverandout said:

Ukraine are worse than England.  They need a goal so instead they try to play tippy tippy Brazil 1970 football.  They're shit

Is'nt that the Brazil that beat Italy 4-1 with a cetain Pele, have you ever played football they were a joy to watch in 1970. Wish England could play like that

[oldjamfan1]

6 minutes ago, RoversTilliDie said:

Is'nt that the Brazil that beat Italy 4-1 with a cetain Pele, have you ever played football they were a joy to watch in 1970. Wish England could play like that

Yeah I don't think he was suggesting that the 1970 Brazil side was shit, but Ukraine certainly are. He was suggesting that they tried but failed to knock the ball around like Pele and his mates instead of going a bit more direct to get a goal.

[Silas]

17 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

Scouting Elliott, Morton & H______-_B_____ all under the tutelage of Lee Carsley 

I watched a bit of this last night. Was a cracking free-flowing game.

Lot easier to achieve in a friendly with no pressure I suppose.

Was impressed with the striker Balogun. I'll be honest, I've never heard the name before in my life. He look good in person? 

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

I'd much prefer us to play four at the back against the lesser sides, but an issue that we have with pretty much all of our domestic-based centre backs (Stones aside) is that you don't really trust them in a two. Shouldn't be a massive issue in the group - touch wood - but once we play some of the better sides I'd be much happier if whomever we choose from Maguire/Dier/Walker weren't as exposed. 

The problem with going 3 at the back on the assumption that no 2 man pairing isn't good enough is that you are just playing an extra player in an area that you are weak in, and adding an extra player who is likely prone to make a big mistake. It also affects the attacking balance of the team leaving us naturally more prone to sitting in to begin with.

Maguire and Dier shouldn't be taken to Qatar.

[joey_big_nose]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

The problem with going 3 at the back on the assumption that no 2 man pairing isn't good enough is that you are just playing an extra player in an area that you are weak in, and adding an extra player who is likely prone to make a big mistake. It also affects the attacking balance of the team leaving us naturally more prone to sitting in to begin with.

Maguire and Dier shouldn't be taken to Qatar.

I hear this a lot - that playing three at the back is about making the defence more solid. There is part of that in there but it is as much about plotting where you are going to concentrate your players to create chances going forward as shoring up at the back.

Plenty of sides with good defenders have played 343 - Man City last season, Chelsea under Conte a few years back, Spurs under Conte now, Bayern Munich and Barcelona used it. It's not just "bad teams use three at the back, good teams use four at the back".  It's been part of winning a lot of trophies.

343 let's you overload the wide areas and stretch the pitch. You could see England do that to Germany loads on Monday night as the Germans played 4231 and we could double up on them out wide. Whereas Italy played 352 so matched us up out wide and completely nullified us, and also had an extra man in the middle to stop us passing through. We didn't figure that out (and my worry would be other teams will try 352 against us).

It's horses for courses really. We could go 4231 ourselves and get to play a number 10 so theoretically we are more offensive. But... maybe we will actually get much more offensive joy (as we did against the Germans) by not having a number 10 but have an extra cb so the wing backs can get really far forward. 343 can be an offensive choice.

Anyway - my guess - based on what happened at the Euros and last WC - is we will play 4231 against the minnows and then 343 against the big teams.

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, RoversTilliDie said:

Is'nt that the Brazil that beat Italy 4-1 with a cetain Pele, have you ever played football they were a joy to watch in 1970. Wish England could play like that

As oldjamfan1 said the Brazil 1970 team were fantastic but Ukraine don't have anywhere near that ability.  I was saying they were trying to play pretty patterns instead of getting the ball in the box.  The amount of times they tried to walk the ball into the net when they needed a goal. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, RoversTilliDie said:

Is'nt that the Brazil that beat Italy 4-1 with a cetain Pele, have you ever played football they were a joy to watch in 1970. Wish England could play like that

Best team I ever saw. They could give the current England team a 2 goal start. The best England team I ever saw was the team that played Brazil in 1970. Very unlucky not to get a draw against them.

[AllRoverAsia]

3 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Best team I ever saw. They could give the current England team a 2 goal start. The best England team I ever saw was the team that played Brazil in 1970. Very unlucky not to get a draw against them

Yes that team could have got to the final but were Bonettied after being 2-0 up. I just watched the goals and the dive for the first, Beckenbauer goal, was pathetic. I'd forgotten how bad that was, although I've never forgotten the Seeler header, also atrociously marked.

The good things were that my Dad rented our first colour TV for the WC and I met a lovely Scottish lass over on her holidays and discovered stuff that took my mind off the pain of football. She was a beaut.

Edited September 28, 2022 by AllRoverAsia

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Dier shouldn't be taken to Qatar

He is form and Southgate should be picking him ahead of Maguire for sure who isn't in form at all 

[AllRoverAsia]

If anyone thinks Dier is the answer WTF was the question.

[K-Hod]

I don’t think Dier is great, but he’s not been bad at all this season for Spurs, to be fair to the lad. Whilst he has been playing right back for Arsenal, Ben White can feel very hard done by to not be picked IMO.

[AllRoverAsia]

38 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I don’t think Dier is great, but he’s not been bad at all this season for Spurs, to be fair to the lad. Whilst he has been playing right back for Arsenal, Ben White can feel very hard done by to not be picked IMO.

Stones, White and Tomori are all better CBs and better footballers than Dier and Maguire.

However my belief is that Southgate will go with Stones, Dier and Maguire v Iran.

[K-Hod]

4 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Stones, White and Tomori are all better CBs and better footballers than Dier and Maguire.

However my belief is that Southgate will go with Stones, Dier and Maguire v Iran.

I agree- thing is though, I won’t get my hopes up for Southgate breaking character and going away from his favourites sadly.

[simongarnerisgod]

5 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Best team I ever saw. They could give the current England team a 2 goal start. The best England team I ever saw was the team that played Brazil in 1970. Very unlucky not to get a draw against them.

the last goal was an illustration of beauty🙂

the 1982 brazil team were the best side iv`e ever seen,they only got knocked out of the world cup by a bunch of italian dirty ***** and their own attacking instincts,they should have walked that world cup,espana 82 the best world cup ever imo

[joey_big_nose]

38 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Stones, White and Tomori are all better CBs and better footballers than Dier and Maguire.

However my belief is that Southgate will go with Stones, Dier and Maguire v Iran.

Think it will be Walker, Stones, Maguire when we're 3 at the back.

Think we will start 4 at the back though as we kick off with Iran. Probs Walker drops out. Then not sure if we will go 343 or 4231 for US or Wales?

[roverandout]

If we had Terry and Ferdinand in this defence we could go all the way. 

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

If anyone thinks Dier is the answer WTF was the question.

Dier is a good centre back. He is suited to playing the middle of the back 3. Playing well for Spurs under Conte. K-Hod mentioned Ben White who is someone I forget about to be honest. He has been good for Arsenal. Plus Stones and Tomori are other centre backs I would be taking to the world cup. 

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

Think it will be Walker, Stones, Maguire when we're 3 at the back.

Think we will start 4 at the back though as we kick off with Iran. Probs Walker drops out. Then not sure if we will go 343 or 4231 for US or Wales?

I think your assumption would be right. Its not the way I would go. 

I would go 4-2-3-1 against all 3, but I think Southgate will go 3-4-3 against Wales.

[Admiral Nelsen]

20 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The problem with going 3 at the back on the assumption that no 2 man pairing isn't good enough is that you are just playing an extra player in an area that you are weak in, and adding an extra player who is likely prone to make a big mistake. It also affects the attacking balance of the team leaving us naturally more prone to sitting in to begin with.

Maguire and Dier shouldn't be taken to Qatar.

 

Have to make the best with what you have though. Maguire's had a torrid time or a while, but he's shown before that he looks a different player when defending a bit deeper in a three compared to playing in a two on the half-way line. His ceiling in that position is much higher than Coady if he is the next option (who also probably needs to play in a three too). 

 

Another issue is that any other likely partner to Stones has barely been given a sniff. I've not seen enough of Tomori to judge, maybe him and Stones are the best option, but they've barely played together. Same with the other domestic options, it still remains to be seen if Guéhi can make the step up to international level.

 

Far from an ideal situation, but I think we have to take Maguire just because of the lack of other decent options. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

13 hours ago, roverandout said:

If we had Terry and Ferdinand in this defence we could go all the way. 

 

If we had Johnathan Woodgate then he'd walk in at present! 

Terry, Ferdinand, Sol Campbell, Carragher, King, Woodgate, all peaking at the same time. Ridiculous strength in depth. 

[USABlue]

On 27/09/2022 at 06:15, rigger said:

Opinions Eh. You don't see us getting out of the group. I don't see us losing a group game.

After watching USA the other night maybe we will.  Yeah opinions.

[roverandout]

2 hours ago, USABlue said:

After watching USA the other night maybe we will.  Yeah opinions.

I expect usa and England to qualify