England

[Mattyblue]

Friendlies with a month of the season to go, what ridiculous scheduling this is.

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Gareth Southgate is the most successful England manger since Alf Ramsey, but he's won nothing. But what he has done is take his England side to European Championship final, something that every other England manger has failed to do in the history of the competition, think about that.

That statistic alone means he deserves to be in his current position and all this nonsense about "once in a generation talent pool" is something we've been hearing for decades, usually with the same outcome, failure!

Friendly internationals against Brazil mean nowt, its what happens in a few months time that really matters.

And even mess that up at home when favourites.

He's a flat track bully saved by the quality of players that he has but he doesn't know how to maximise.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just 3 more friendlies to go until the Euros start.

Our defence is still a shambles. These games are necessary but Southgate will fail to utilise them to make the fixes needed.

His stats should improve even more against B&H and Iceland, OMG!!, maybe even Belgium  who are pretty good again.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Entertaining game, but England were so exposed in defence. Lacking in that final killer move too. Chilwell was particularly bad. He kept slowing down counter attacks and Raphiniha had him on toast.

[Mattyblue]

They aren’t needed right now.

What are you learning from friendlies when half the squad pulls out ‘injured’ or the ones that do play play within themselves to avoid an injury for the run in?

[RoverDom]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

"once in a generation talent pool" is something we've been hearing for decades, usually with the same outcome, failure!

Exactly. How many of the current pool would get in a combined 11 with either the Euro 2004 or Euro 96 squad? And that's just in my life time.

None of the GK or defence now is better than Euro 2004 - there's maybe an argument for Walker.

Midfield - Rice maybe but, is he any better than the likes of Carrick, Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard? 

Attack - Bellingham absolutely, Foden probably. Kane is obviously absolutely fantastic but England have always had great strikers to choose from - linekar, shearer, Owen, Rooney etc

Compared to the 2014 squad then we are unrecognisably better and we have some really exciting talent but is it really the best crop players we've ever had to choose from? 

[DE.]

Whilst I agree that the result means nothing in the grand scheme of things, and the scheduling is stupid, a friendly against Brazil is still a special occasion. We haven't played them at a tournament since 2002, and I believe it's the first time we've come up against them since 2017 in a competitive match. England Vs Brazil is always a fascinating tie (on paper). Also very rare that we beat them - once in twelve matches since 1990. 

But yeah, the timing is not particularly great. 

[Gav]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

And even mess that up at home when favourites.

He's a flat track bully saved by the quality of players that he has but he doesn't know how to maximise.

Italy were the best side in the competition and backed it up, no shame in losing to them in my opinion.

The Euro 96 side was the best England side in my lifetime, with a world class manager running the show and even they couldn't make it into the final.

We shouldn't under estimate the achievement of Southgate last time out, who out performed every other England manager since 1966!

 

Edited March 24, 2024 by Gav

[jim mk2]

England have a poor record against Brazil and last night was a chance to beat one of the worst Brazil teams I've seen. Their celebrations at the end shows how much it meant to the Brazil players and the coaching staff. I don't think they expected to win.

England are destined to fail again this summer. Southgate doesn't have the nous to win a tournament. England will need a foreign coach in order to move forward and finally win some silverware. Their understanding of the game is so superior. 

[chaddyrovers]

I think Southgate is a quality manager and he is rightly being linked with Man Utd manager job but also I would lie him to carry on as England manager until after the next world cup. 

Also last night game was a friendly and yet people reaction are Over The Top comments again. 

Also look at players who would be in the starting line up or near the line up. Players like Kane, Saka, Alexander-Arnold, James, Grealish, Shaw and Kalvin Phillips, while Ben White didn't want to be selected. 

My squad for the Euro 2024 would be

Keepers- Pickford, Ramsdale, Pope

Defenders - Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw, Tripper, Tomori, White, 

Midfielders - Rice, Bellingham, Maddison, Gallagher, Maindo, TAA

Forwards - Kane, Foden, Grealish, Gordon, Watkins, Saka, Rashford

Edited March 24, 2024 by chaddyrovers

[simongarnerisgod]

3 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

And even mess that up at home when favourites.

He's a flat track bully saved by the quality of players that he has but he doesn't know how to maximis

we should have won the euros,southgate was all at sea when mancini changed his team shape and italy started getting more possesion,he simply didn`t know what to do,neither did his coaches,i imagine it will be the same this summer

[roversfan99]

I dont think people are overreacting to the friendly, numerous people have commented on how the current set of friendlies are totally unnecessary.

Southgate has a poor record in general against big nations. That and too much loyalty towards underperforming players in our weak positions perhaps show he is anything but a quality manager. Lets hope United are stupid enough to take him.

[damo100]

6 hours ago, Gav said:

Gareth Southgate is the most successful England manger since Alf Ramsey, but he's won nothing. But what he has done is take his England side to European Championship final, something that every other England manger has failed to do in the history of the competition, think about that.

That statistic alone means he deserves to be in his current position and all this nonsense about "once in a generation talent pool" is something we've been hearing for decades, usually with the same outcome, failure!

Friendly internationals against Brazil mean nowt, its what happens in a few months time that really matters.

Disagree, Southgate is a 'safe' defensive minded coach who is stubborn when picking the likes of Maguire, Henderson and Phillips amongst media and fans disapproval. 

When we played a poor Italy at Wembley a goal up, Southgate's tactics where to sit back and protect the lead, then put on Saka etc way too late.

Name me a Premier League side who'd want Southgate as their manager, he failed at Boro. 

We have a good chance with the talent available, but we'll win any major tournament under Southgate. 

Imagine if England's head coach was Pep or Jurgen?

Edited March 24, 2024 by damo100

[Gav]

18 minutes ago, damo100 said:

Disagree, Southgate is a 'safe' defensive minded coach who is stubborn when picking the likes of Maguire, Henderson and Phillips amongst media and fans disapproval. 

When we played a poor Italy at Wembley a goal up, Southgate's tactics where to sit back and protect the lead, then put on Saka etc way too late.

Name me a Premier League side who'd want Southgate as their manager, he failed at Boro. 

We have a good chance with the talent available, but we'll win any major tournament under Southgate. 

Imagine if England's head coach was Pep or Jurgen?

Its all about opinions of course damo and I respect yours.

You talk about Pep and Klopp, but they're never coming to manage England and lets not forget we had a manager of this calibre in Capello, probably in Venables and Robson too, all failed to reach the heights Southgate has, food for thought maybe? 

[Exiled_Rover]

5 hours ago, RoverDom said:

Exactly. How many of the current pool would get in a combined 11 with either the Euro 2004 or Euro 96 squad? And that's just in my life time.

None of the GK or defence now is better than Euro 2004 - there's maybe an argument for Walker.

Midfield - Rice maybe but, is he any better than the likes of Carrick, Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard? 

Attack - Bellingham absolutely, Foden probably. Kane is obviously absolutely fantastic but England have always had great strikers to choose from - linekar, shearer, Owen, Rooney etc

Compared to the 2014 squad then we are unrecognisably better and we have some really exciting talent but is it really the best crop players we've ever had to choose from? 

It's all relative though, isn't it.

Just look at that Wish Brazil team last night. They used to have Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos, Cafu etc.

International football is in a massive lull - besides France (who we would have beaten if Kane wasn't a serial bottler) there's no more talented team on the intentional stage than this England one.

[joey_big_nose]

5 hours ago, RoverDom said:

Exactly. How many of the current pool would get in a combined 11 with either the Euro 2004 or Euro 96 squad? And that's just in my life time.

None of the GK or defence now is better than Euro 2004 - there's maybe an argument for Walker.

Midfield - Rice maybe but, is he any better than the likes of Carrick, Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard? 

Attack - Bellingham absolutely, Foden probably. Kane is obviously absolutely fantastic but England have always had great strikers to choose from - linekar, shearer, Owen, Rooney etc

Compared to the 2014 squad then we are unrecognisably better and we have some really exciting talent but is it really the best crop players we've ever had to choose from? 

Id say we have a more rounded and balanced set of midfielders than we have ever had. Bellingham, Rice, Saka, Foden compliment and link up each other much better than previous golden generations... (Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard and even Joe Cole while individually brilliant all were ultimately too similar to really work together well). Add Kane in there as the main striker it's a really good midfield and attack.

But... I don't think any of our other strikers are on Kanes level. And as others have said our central defence and keeper are poor by historical standards.

That said Southgate has tended to overachieve, and this is his best squad yet. So feel like we will continue to do well. 

[Gav]

12 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Id say we have a more rounded and balanced set of midfielders than we have ever had. Bellingham, Rice, Saka, Foden compliment and link up each other much better than previous golden generations... (Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard and even Joe Cole while individually brilliant all were ultimately too similar to really work together well). Add Kane in there as the main striker it's a really good midfield and attack.

But... I don't think any of our other strikers are on Kanes level. And as others have said our central defence and keeper are poor by historical standards.

That said Southgate has tended to overachieve, and this is his best squad yet. So feel like we will continue to do well. 

Shearer was better than Kane in his pomp.

Edited March 24, 2024 by Gav

[roversfan99]

We often mention the imbalances in previous teams but I suppose the current team has them, one top centre back and then an absence of quality beyond that. The same in central midfield and issues at left back too.

Those issues are heightened by the selections that Southgate does make. Even amidst average alternatives, Maguire and Henderson/Gallagher are still really poor choices. 

[joey_big_nose]

11 minutes ago, Gav said:

Shearer was better than Kane in his pomp.

Hard to pick between them as theyre very different players but similarly ridiculous stats. Would compliment each other very well in a two though.

In terms of this current England team a definite issue is the way Kane drops deep. We have loads of great attacking mids, its not like we need Kane there. So if you could swap him for the all out striker Shearer was in say 1995 I would. 

Edited March 24, 2024 by joey_big_nose

[damo100]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Its all about opinions of course damo and I respect yours.

You talk about Pep and Klopp, but they're never coming to manage England and lets not forget we had a manager of this calibre in Capello, probably in Venables and Robson too, all failed to reach the heights Southgate has, food for thought maybe? 

You need to remember the Venables, Robson, Ericsson days when we had quality players, we also lagged behind European clubs.

Not now, completely different to those days, we dominate Europe, Bellingham Real Madrid, Kate Bayern.

We'll win nothing under Southgate. 

[DE.]

Many teams who have won tournaments have squad imbalances. Even the Brazil team of 2002 had the likes of Roque Junior and Kleberson starting for them. Nobody would have said Greece had anything close to the best squad in Euro 2004. It's rare to have a team, even at international level, which is top quality in every position. It can happen, but even those teams can struggle if the set up is wrong. It's about making a team greater than the sum of its parts - Southgate, in fairness to him, has come close to getting it right. He's just lacking that final piece of the puzzle which, as a result, always sees us fall short at the end. 

[speeeeeeedie]

30 minutes ago, damo100 said:

We'll win nothing under Southgate. 

Evey England manager besides Alf Ramsey won nothing. Using that as a stick to beat Southgate with is a bit harsh. 

England are not a top table football nation, as much as I want them to be. Yet thanks to Southgate's efforts whilst aiding England youth development the national talent pool is getting better. 

As for yesterday's game. It wasn't the best. Gallagher and Chilwell were poor. Watkins anonymous. Bellingham got kicked off his game, especially by Paqueta. Maguire will play at the Euros, but he needs significant game time week in week out until the tournament to get sharp. 

[Mattyblue]

By not a ‘top table’ nation, you mean the national side not winning much? Fair enough if that’s the barometer you are using.

As by any other metric England is a powerhouse of the sport and has been for 150 years.

[roversfan99]

The majority of our team is certainly individually a top level team. And im not sure how much credit Southgate deserves for that. 

[Gav]

2 hours ago, damo100 said:

You need to remember the Venables, Robson, Ericsson days when we had quality players, we also lagged behind European clubs.

How many times have Germany won Euros and World Cup? They’ve never had the best league or best players in the world, I’m not buying that damo.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2024 by Gav