England

[Exiled_Rover]

39 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Agree somewhat but I like that he wants the ball. He's got a swagger. At least he doesn't hide like foden 

To a degree. I play on a Wednesday night with someone similar to Bellingham - plays as a False 9 / 10 / 8 (it's quite hard to get him to stick to one position, he just wanders around!) and demands the ball.

It completely disrupts the shape and rhythm of the team - even though technically he's one of the better players there. 

Bellingham's performance last night reminded me massively of that - he was allowed to show up wherever he wanted and demand the ball. Meanwhile Foden and Rashford were clearly under strict instructions to stay to their wings to open up as much space as possible for Bellingham to operate in in the middle. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

43 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Agree somewhat but I like that he wants the ball. He's got a swagger. At least he doesn't hide like foden 

The guy in my paper today has it right about Foden - “ lacks conviction in an England shirt “. 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

England have got a lot of good players but its hard to see how to build a well balanced world class team out of them. Everyone loves coming short, ball to feet, central. Just too samey... 

It will be interesting if Tuchel can get anything different out of them.

Agreed, there are some very good players in attack but its really difficult to find a balance and we are also much weaker further back.

As you say, the attackers all want it to feet and most want to all be number 10s. Saka is the one stand out winger and he likes it to feet, Kane the stand out striker and he keeps dropping deep. You then have Bellingham, Palmer and Foden who all want to play in the same position, Tuchel will need to be brave and probably just play 1 (likely Bellingham) rather than falling into the same trap of picking the best players but stifling them. There was lots of criticism that Gibbs White wasnt in the initial squad and hes a good player but when most are fit assuming we arent putting square pegs in round holes, he woulr struggle to get on the bench.The likes of Gordon and Bowen are a level or two below some of the above names but if you play them wide it suits them more and gives us runners in behind.

Further back, the defence as individuals are not close to the level of a tournament challenging team. It will take some brilliant work from Tuchel to make them able to keep the better countries at bay. We also have a lack of players who compliment Rice in midfield, Wharton is the obvious one but its a big ask at this side and im not sure those 2 provide much protection to an already questionable defence.

[roverandout]

26 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Agreed, there are some very good players in attack but its really difficult to find a balance and we are also much weaker further back.

As you say, the attackers all want it to feet and most want to all be number 10s. Saka is the one stand out winger and he likes it to feet, Kane the stand out striker and he keeps dropping deep. You then have Bellingham, Palmer and Foden who all want to play in the same position, Tuchel will need to be brave and probably just play 1 (likely Bellingham) rather than falling into the same trap of picking the best players but stifling them. There was lots of criticism that Gibbs White wasnt in the initial squad and hes a good player but when most are fit assuming we arent putting square pegs in round holes, he woulr struggle to get on the bench.The likes of Gordon and Bowen are a level or two below some of the above names but if you play them wide it suits them more and gives us runners in behind.

Further back, the defence as individuals are not close to the level of a tournament challenging team. It will take some brilliant work from Tuchel to make them able to keep the better countries at bay. We also have a lack of players who compliment Rice in midfield, Wharton is the obvious one but its a big ask at this side and im not sure those 2 provide much protection to an already questionable defence.

I totally disagree.  Konsa and ghuei have proven to be excellent centrebacks.  Stones when fit is world class 

[roverandout]

As for rice the amount of criticism he gets is bonkers. He's not going to control a game, he wins the ball, plays it simple.  That's his job and there's no one better in world football at doing that. He needs an Adam Wharton alongside him to dictate play and release rice to get forward.  He's also better on the ball than people think 

[roverandout]

11 minutes ago, roverandout said:

I totally disagree.  Konsa and ghuei have proven to be excellent centrebacks.  Stones when fit is world class 

Let me amend that by saying they're not elite as in saliba or van diik. But Argentina won 3 tournaments without elite defenders. I'm not some huge England fanboy who isn't given to critising England. 

Edited Saturday at 19:29 by roverandout

[K-Hod]

27 minutes ago, roverandout said:

As for rice the amount of criticism he gets is bonkers. He's not going to control a game, he wins the ball, plays it simple.  That's his job and there's no one better in world football at doing that. He needs an Adam Wharton alongside him to dictate play and release rice to get forward.  He's also better on the ball than people think 

Who’s criticising Rice?

[chaddyrovers]

59 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Agreed, there are some very good players in attack but its really difficult to find a balance and we are also much weaker further back.

As you say, the attackers all want it to feet and most want to all be number 10s. Saka is the one stand out winger and he likes it to feet, Kane the stand out striker and he keeps dropping deep. You then have Bellingham, Palmer and Foden who all want to play in the same position, Tuchel will need to be brave and probably just play 1 (likely Bellingham) rather than falling into the same trap of picking the best players but stifling them. There was lots of criticism that Gibbs White wasnt in the initial squad and hes a good player but when most are fit assuming we arent putting square pegs in round holes, he woulr struggle to get on the bench.The likes of Gordon and Bowen are a level or two below some of the above names but if you play them wide it suits them more and gives us runners in behind.

Further back, the defence as individuals are not close to the level of a tournament challenging team. It will take some brilliant work from Tuchel to make them able to keep the better countries at bay. We also have a lack of players who compliment Rice in midfield, Wharton is the obvious one but its a big ask at this side and im not sure those 2 provide much protection to an already questionable defence.

so if everyone was fit what would be your starting 11 for the first game in 2026 World Cup in USA, Canada and Mexico? a question for everyone not just RF99 btw

my team 

               Pickford

James Stones Guehi Hall

            Jones Rice

Palmer   Bellingham Gordon

                 Kane

Edited Saturday at 19:51 by chaddyrovers

[roverandout]

7 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Who’s 

 

7 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Who’s criticising Rice?

A few people on here

[roverandout]

7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

so if everyone was fit what would be your starting 11 for the first game in 2026 World Cup in USA, Canada and Mexico? a question for everyone not just RF99 btw

my team 

               Pickford

James Stones Guehi Hall

            Jones Rice

Palmer   Bellingham Gordon

                 Kane

Wharton over jones 

[roverandout]

12 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Who’s criticising Rice?

I actually thought roversfan was. I just saw the name rice and I didn't read it

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Agreed, there are some very good players in attack but its really difficult to find a balance and we are also much weaker further back.

As you say, the attackers all want it to feet and most want to all be number 10s. Saka is the one stand out winger and he likes it to feet, Kane the stand out striker and he keeps dropping deep. You then have Bellingham, Palmer and Foden who all want to play in the same position, Tuchel will need to be brave and probably just play 1 (likely Bellingham) rather than falling into the same trap of picking the best players but stifling them. There was lots of criticism that Gibbs White wasnt in the initial squad and hes a good player but when most are fit assuming we arent putting square pegs in round holes, he woulr struggle to get on the bench.The likes of Gordon and Bowen are a level or two below some of the above names but if you play them wide it suits them more and gives us runners in behind.

Further back, the defence as individuals are not close to the level of a tournament challenging team. It will take some brilliant work from Tuchel to make them able to keep the better countries at bay. We also have a lack of players who compliment Rice in midfield, Wharton is the obvious one but its a big ask at this side and im not sure those 2 provide much protection to an already questionable defence.

I thought angel gomes played well in the deep role. As u say aside from Wharton we don't produce deep lying midfielders. Anderson is a decent option.  That's why Southgate deployed Philips in that role to protect the back 4. I wouldn't be against Henderson doing that role as he has the energy to get about the pitch

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, roverandout said:

I totally disagree.  Konsa and ghuei have proven to be excellent centrebacks.  Stones when fit is world class 

I think excellent is probably a description aided with the England blinkers on and Stones is seriously on the decline. 

As you touch on in another post though, you dont always need world class centre backs and Tuchel can organise teams so that has to be the hope. He needs to get the team playing to more than the sum of its parts.

1 hour ago, roverandout said:

As for rice the amount of criticism he gets is bonkers. He's not going to control a game, he wins the ball, plays it simple.  That's his job and there's no one better in world football at doing that. He needs an Adam Wharton alongside him to dictate play and release rice to get forward.  He's also better on the ball than people think 

Wharton seems like the most obvious fit but even then im not so sure and either way, he isnt in Tuchel's immediate thoughts it seems. We as Rovers fans have higher than average opinions of him but he is still rough around the edges.

Rice as you touched on in another post played best when he had Kalvin Phillips next to him. Rice is often pigeon holed as a holding midfielder for England but he isnt, Partey at Arsenal allows him to push on and gets the best out of him.

Wharton played better for us I thought with Tronstad doing the defensive side rather than when Wharton was the most defensive and Travis was doing a budget equivalent of what Rice does, going box to box. Wharton isnt half as good off the ball as he is on it. We just dont have any good defensive midfielders. The fact you mentioned Henderson says everything. Someone like Owen Hargreaves or Michael Carrick who had that ability to just sit in and block the space in front of the defence, especially as for us our defenders individually are not great. Its another hard conundrum for Tuchel to try and solve as a tactician.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

so if everyone was fit what would be your starting 11 for the first game in 2026 World Cup in USA, Canada and Mexico? a question for everyone not just RF99 btw

my team 

               Pickford

James Stones Guehi Hall

            Jones Rice

Palmer   Bellingham Gordon

                 Kane

Its impossible to say over a year away. Stones and James are seldom fit but if you are just assuming that players whose bodies have repeatedly failed them are all fit, then do you even include Luke Shaw?

One thing I am sure of is that Saka is our only top class winger and would be a guaranteed starter. Sticking Palmer there is again just trying to pick individuals rather than a balanced team.

Your team lacks a defensive midfielder but as I have touched on I dont really think we have one of note. I would like to see Wharton next to Rice as that makes the most sense but I am not 100% convinced even then by the balance.

[roverandout]

30 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think excellent is probably a description aided with the England blinkers on and Stones is seriously on the decline. 

As you touch on in another post though, you dont always need world class centre backs and Tuchel can organise teams so that has to be the hope. He needs to get the team playing to more than the sum of its parts.

Wharton seems like the most obvious fit but even then im not so sure and either way, he isnt in Tuchel's immediate thoughts it seems. We as Rovers fans have higher than average opinions of him but he is still rough around the edges.

Rice as you touched on in another post played best when he had Kalvin Phillips next to him. Rice is often pigeon holed as a holding midfielder for England but he isnt, Partey at Arsenal allows him to push on and gets the best out of him.

Wharton played better for us I thought with Tronstad doing the defensive side rather than when Wharton was the most defensive and Travis was doing a budget equivalent of what Rice does, going box to box. Wharton isnt half as good off the ball as he is on it. We just dont have any good defensive midfielders. The fact you mentioned Henderson says everything. Someone like Owen Hargreaves or Michael Carrick who had that ability to just sit in and block the space in front of the defence, especially as for us our defenders individually are not great. Its another hard conundrum for Tuchel to try and solve as a tactician.

Maybe try Lewis-skelly in that role with hall at left-back. MLS is very good at playing against the press

[Exiled_Rover]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Its impossible to say over a year away. Stones and James are seldom fit but if you are just assuming that players whose bodies have repeatedly failed them are all fit, then do you even include Luke Shaw?

One thing I am sure of is that Saka is our only top class winger and would be a guaranteed starter. Sticking Palmer there is again just trying to pick individuals rather than a balanced team.

Your team lacks a defensive midfielder but as I have touched on I dont really think we have one of note. I would like to see Wharton next to Rice as that makes the most sense but I am not 100% convinced even then by the balance.

Rice is a DM. As much as people want to call him a CM / Box-to-Box Midfielder, he's at his best firefighting. Big lad, good engine and reads the game well. 

He simply doesn't have the range of passing to be played further forward - he's clearly most comfortable playing 5-10 yard passes to more technically proficient players. 

Edited yesterday at 00:19 by Exiled_Rover

[Exiled_Rover]

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Agreed, there are some very good players in attack but its really difficult to find a balance and we are also much weaker further back.

As you say, the attackers all want it to feet and most want to all be number 10s. Saka is the one stand out winger and he likes it to feet, Kane the stand out striker and he keeps dropping deep. You then have Bellingham, Palmer and Foden who all want to play in the same position, Tuchel will need to be brave and probably just play 1 (likely Bellingham) rather than falling into the same trap of picking the best players but stifling them. There was lots of criticism that Gibbs White wasnt in the initial squad and hes a good player but when most are fit assuming we arent putting square pegs in round holes, he woulr struggle to get on the bench.The likes of Gordon and Bowen are a level or two below some of the above names but if you play them wide it suits them more and gives us runners in behind.

Further back, the defence as individuals are not close to the level of a tournament challenging team. It will take some brilliant work from Tuchel to make them able to keep the better countries at bay. We also have a lack of players who compliment Rice in midfield, Wharton is the obvious one but its a big ask at this side and im not sure those 2 provide much protection to an already questionable defence.

A brave manager would drop Kane. Obviously easier said than done considering the amount of goals he's scored. 

He's zero threat to run in behind - partly because he's now a lumbering oaf and partly because he seems to want to play as a #10. That reduces the way you can attack teams - and why most of our play is pretty 5 yard passes in-front of a settled defence. 

I'd give Watkin and Solanke a go. I wouldn't be opposed to throwing Delap into the mix too.

We need a physical presence upfront. 

 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Rice is a DM. As much as people want to call him a CM / Box-to-Box Midfielder, he's at his best firefighting. Big lad, good engine and reads the game well. 

He simply doesn't have the range of passing to be played further forward - he's clearly most comfortable playing 5-10 yard passes to more technically proficient players. 

I disagree, I dont think he has the ability to play quick enough on the half turn, its not really his game. He has also shown for Arsenal in the last couple of years that he really benefits from having someone more disciplined next to him to allow him to roam more.

Its a bit like Travis with us, although obviously Travis is nowhere near as good at it. Play him as the deepest midfielder and he is nowhere near as effective as having a Tronstad next to him.

Rice was stifled at the Euros with more attack minded options beside him and the side was imbalanced.

[Upside Down]

14 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

pep-ball was great at barcelona,only because he had 3 absolute all time greats and 8 other world class players  in his side,it really is annoying and boring to see anyone else try it,though man city tried to emulate it and did to a certain extent,they did`nt have you rushing to the telly to watch them,i found them quite monotonous

He also had the refs on the payroll so got the lions share of decisions as well.

They were an amazing team but I think Pep's responsibility for that greatness gets overstated and the absolute world class quality of every single member of the team is criminally overlooked.

I'm not saying he's a shit manager or anything but he's not anywhere near as great as is made out to be.

[Mattyblue]

The state of this qualification competition now the WC is 48 teams.

If they are going to insist the Nations League has to stay, use that as the tournament for WC qualifying, as this is a farce.

Some of the groups have *four* teams in them! With the likes of England strolling around for a year against the likes of Albania - in what way is it any test for the real thing?

Edited yesterday at 07:28 by Mattyblue

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Its impossible to say over a year away. Stones and James are seldom fit but if you are just assuming that players whose bodies have repeatedly failed them are all fit, then do you even include Luke Shaw?

One thing I am sure of is that Saka is our only top class winger and would be a guaranteed starter. Sticking Palmer there is again just trying to pick individuals rather than a balanced team.

Your team lacks a defensive midfielder but as I have touched on I dont really think we have one of note. I would like to see Wharton next to Rice as that makes the most sense but I am not 100% convinced even then by the balance.

to be honest, I thought it was easy question to answer. 

Rice is the defensive midfielder with Jones. Rice doesn't have the passing range to play more advance for me for England. Jones gets box to box and Bellingham has the number 10. My other 3 centre midfielders for the squad would be Adam Wharton, Angel Gomes and Elliott Anderson

Saka doesn't get in my team as I want Palmer in my team. 

Shaw international career is over for. My 2 left backs are Lewis Hall as first choice and MLS has 2nd choice. 

If Stones isn't fit then Colwill or Tomori come in. 

If James isn't ft then Ben White plays there. 

22 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

The state of this qualification competition now the WC is 48 teams.

If they are going to insist the Nations League has to stay, use that as the tournament for WC qualifying, as this is a farce.

Some of the groups have *four* teams in them! With the likes of England strolling around for a year against the likes of Albania - in what way is it any test for the real thing?

Its pathetic now. The Qualifying process for the European big nations is far too easy. 

The Nations league is boring and pointless

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

to be honest, I thought it was easy question to answer. 

Rice is the defensive midfielder with Jones. Rice doesn't have the passing range to play more advance for me for England. Jones gets box to box and Bellingham has the number 10. My other 3 centre midfielders for the squad would be Adam Wharton, Angel Gomes and Elliott Anderson

Saka doesn't get in my team as I want Palmer in my team. 

Shaw international career is over for. My 2 left backs are Lewis Hall as first choice and MLS has 2nd choice. 

If Stones isn't fit then Colwill or Tomori come in. 

If James isn't ft then Ben White plays there. 

Its pathetic now. The Qualifying process for the European big nations is far too easy. 

The Nations league is boring and pointless

You wouldn't have saka? He's on a different level to palmer 

[roversfan99]

11 minutes ago, roverandout said:

You wouldn't have saka? He's on a different level to palmer 

I dont think hes on a different planet, both are very good and probably at a similar level. But Palmer isnt a winger. Woud leave us imbalanced and sticking square pegs in round holes to try and force him in.

(As I think would having Rice as the most defensive midfielder)

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont think hes on a different planet, both are very good and probably at a similar level. But Palmer isnt a winger. Woud leave us imbalanced and sticking square pegs in round holes to try and force him in.

(As I think would having Rice as the most defensive midfielder)

Like I asked you for your team for the first world cup game and you came up with excuses again last night. Its was a basic question. 

I have been very clear with my opinion and what my team would be. 

Palmer is wide man despite him playing as a number 10 at Chelsea plus Bellingham and then Gibbs White/Maddison/Rogers are my number 10's

Edited yesterday at 12:48 by chaddyrovers

[chaddyrovers]

my squad for the world cup 

GK - Pickford Pope Henderson

Defenders - James, TAA, White, Stones, Guehi, Tomori, Colwill, Hall, MLS

CM - Rice, Anderson, Wharton, Jones and Gomes

Wide options - Palmer, Saka, Gordon, Rashford, Rogers

Striker/number 10 - Kane, Watkins, Bellingham, Solanke