Attendances: A cause for concern

[Gav]

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

The amount of good players who'll leave one way or another in summer won't help.

All this building the team, club, journey stuff will be proven to be a load of old bluster again when guys like Hedges are being brought in to replace them.

Tony will be hailed ( mostly by himself) as the messiah again keeping us in midtable.

 

Who is responsible for the steady steam of loan signings and the revolving door? Mowbray is working with the budget Venkys allow him, he needs to put a side out and this is the result.

I can guarantee Mowbray would have signed Tosin and he’d certainly sign most of this seasons intake, but we’re skint, with billionaire owners.

The very reason we’re in the loan market is because these owners haven’t got wages under control in 10yrs.

The Buck stops with these inept absent owners.
 

[simongarnerisgod]

6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

The amount of good players who'll leave one way or another in summer won't help.

All this building the team, club, journey stuff will be proven to be a load of old bluster again when guys like Hedges are being brought in to replace them.

Tony will be hailed ( mostly by himself) as the messiah again keeping us in midtable.

 

i watch a fair bit of scottish football and hedges at aberdeen was,to put it nicely,not very good,that was in his best position of right midfield as well,if he can`t cut it scotland,then he certainly is`nt going to make an impression in the extremely competetive championship with mowbray playing him out of position,a very strange signing indeed,suspiciously strange imo

if signings like this are going to become the norm and a mogadon extension potentially looming i don`t think i`ll be the only one struggling to motivate my interest for next season😪

[tomphil]

24 minutes ago, Gav said:

Who is responsible for the steady steam of loan signings and the revolving door? Mowbray is working with the budget Venkys allow him, he needs to put a side out and this is the result.

I can guarantee Mowbray would have signed Tosin and he’d certainly sign most of this seasons intake, but we’re skint, with billionaire owners.

The very reason we’re in the loan market is because these owners haven’t got wages under control in 10yrs.

The Buck stops with these inept absent owners.
 

It's a collective.

They also keep him in a job when he should have been potted and pay him the thick end of a million quid a year.

We know the owners role in it all but to constantly try and move any culpability whatsoever from Mowbray is wrong.

I wouldn't expect us to sign someone like Tosin or Harrison Reed, who Mowbray wanted to play second fiddle to the likes of Bennett, Evans and Smallwood. That had the square root of nothing to do with the 4 absent heads in Pune.

By his own words he was offered big money after promotion to try for the double bounce and by his own words he declined it. He then spent 6.5 million on a young project signing that has taken 3 seasons to bear fruit. Then he'll be sold probably despite these owners offering him a double or treble your wages contract.

That's where Tony's head is at in this job, by the way will you be moaning about wages if BBD actually signed a new one ?

Who directed recent seasons budgets into Downing, Trybull, Johnson, Holtby etc ?  Doubtful it was the Raos unless they are still involved where they shouldn't be via their 3rd party friends.

[simongarnerisgod]

By his own words he was offered big money after promotion to try for the double bounce and by his own words he declined it. He then spent 6.5 million on a young project signing that has taken 3 seasons to bear fruit. Then he'll be sold probably despite these owners offering him a double or treble your wages contract

i was`nt aware of that,though it does explain that tony has lived in a comfort zone here from the moment he stepped through the door,only slight bit of pressure he faces is the occasional murmur of discontent from the scattering of "disloyal fans"

imagine he does sign a new deal and suddenly venkys announce they are coming over and taking complete control of running the club,move over maggot your sacked, tony,here`s 200 million quid,**** the ffp get us promoted,money no object,his face would drop like a russian tank commander facing an nlaw rocket,it would be ******* hilarious,he`d be stuttering though his press conferences,snapping at everyone because the pressure would be right on him,i don`t think he`d last 3 months before it got to him

purely hypothetical the above  but it would be funny seeing his character change when he spent the money and  still had us set up like the disorganised mess we are now,he`d probably sign mitrovic from fulham then put him out wide

[Gav]

50 minutes ago, tomphil said:

It's a collective.

They also keep him in a job when he should have been potted and pay him the thick end of a million quid a year.

We know the owners role in it all but to constantly try and move any culpability whatsoever from Mowbray is wrong.

I wouldn't expect us to sign someone like Tosin or Harrison Reed, who Mowbray wanted to play second fiddle to the likes of Bennett, Evans and Smallwood. That had the square root of nothing to do with the 4 absent heads in Pune.

By his own words he was offered big money after promotion to try for the double bounce and by his own words he declined it. He then spent 6.5 million on a young project signing that has taken 3 seasons to bear fruit. Then he'll be sold probably despite these owners offering him a double or treble your wages contract.

That's where Tony's head is at in this job, by the way will you be moaning about wages if BBD actually signed a new one ?

Who directed recent seasons budgets into Downing, Trybull, Johnson, Holtby etc ?  Doubtful it was the Raos unless they are still involved where they shouldn't be via their 3rd party friends.

You make a good fist of trying to shift the blame, but £2m a season including wages, isn’t £10m a season including wages, regardless if the manager is Mowbray or Guardiola. 

Pound shop billionaires, who won’t even pay for a lick of paint in Bburn end bogs.

Speaks volumes.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, simongarnerisgod said:

By his own words he was offered big money after promotion to try for the double bounce and by his own words he declined it. He then spent 6.5 million on a young project signing that has taken 3 seasons to bear fruit. Then he'll be sold probably despite these owners offering him a double or treble your wages contract

i was`nt aware of that,though it does explain that tony has lived in a comfort zone here from the moment he stepped through the door,only slight bit of pressure he faces is the occasional murmur of discontent from the scattering of "disloyal fans"

imagine he does sign a new deal and suddenly venkys announce they are coming over and taking complete control of running the club,move over maggot your sacked, tony,here`s 200 million quid,**** the ffp get us promoted,money no object,his face would drop like a russian tank commander facing an nlaw rocket,it would be ******* hilarious,he`d be stuttering though his press conferences,snapping at everyone because the pressure would be right on him,i don`t think he`d last 3 months before it got to him

purely hypothetical the above  but it would be funny seeing his character change when he spent the money and  still had us set up like the disorganised mess we are now,he`d probably sign mitrovic from fulham then put him out wide

He ain't daft if he was offered 20 million and told go for it he'd say no give it to me over 5 years because of FFP. In fact i suspect that was the cut of his jib after promotion,

[AllRoverAsia]

Quote ''The very reason we’re in the loan market is because these owners haven’t got wages under control in 10yrs.''

Quote: ''£2m a season including wages, isn’t £10m a season including wages''

I am genuinely confused. Am I missing something or miss reading? Are Rovers wages too high or too low? It can't be both.

 

[Blue blood]

9 hours ago, Gav said:

You make a good fist of trying to shift the blame, but £2m a season including wages, isn’t £10m a season including wages, regardless if the manager is Mowbray or Guardiola. 

Pound shop billionaires, who won’t even pay for a lick of paint in Bburn end bogs.

Speaks volumes.

Are you seriously trying to say TM doesn't shoulder any blame? Or at least a decent proportion of it? 

I mean I am with you, the owners are a much bigger problem - it's the reason the clown is still in post for starters - but to say TM is not really culpable is a stretch. 

I don't think Venkys forced TM to move Elliott to false 9 when he had been so effective elsewhere, or stick with Walton as gk no matter how poor he was. It is TMs choice how he uses his budget - irrespective of level - and whether to direct any of that towards bringing in a striker. It's TM with the tombola. It's TM who has been on the horror runs. 

Of course Venkys are a much bigger problem - TM is a symptom not the cause. But my word he's not half an unpleasant symptom of a terrible regime and has made a ton of mistakes. 

[Gav]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Quote ''The very reason we’re in the loan market is because these owners haven’t got wages under control in 10yrs.''

Quote: ''£2m a season including wages, isn’t £10m a season including wages''

I am genuinely confused. Am I missing something or miss reading? Are Rovers wages too high or too low? It can't be both.

 

We are mid table when it comes to wages right now, we are also hamstrung by FFP, due to the mismanagement of the club by these inept owners, of course it can be both.

42 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Are you seriously trying to say TM doesn't shoulder any blame? Or at least a decent proportion of it? 

I mean I am with you, the owners are a much bigger problem - it's the reason the clown is still in post for starters - but to say TM is not really culpable is a stretch. 

I don't think Venkys forced TM to move Elliott to false 9 when he had been so effective elsewhere, or stick with Walton as gk no matter how poor he was. It is TMs choice how he uses his budget - irrespective of level - and whether to direct any of that towards bringing in a striker. It's TM with the tombola. It's TM who has been on the horror runs. 

Of course Venkys are a much bigger problem - TM is a symptom not the cause. But my word he's not half an unpleasant symptom of a terrible regime and has made a ton of mistakes. 

Nope.

As you say Bb, this manager and every other manager are just symptoms, we know where the real illness resides.  

 

[K-Hod]

Just because the owners are awful, doesn’t mean Mowbray doesn’t have it in his locker to be awful too….

[Gav]

5 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Just because the owners are awful, doesn’t mean Mowbray doesn’t have it in his locker to be awful too….

Agreed and he has been awful at times, I don't think anyone would dispute that.

[1864roverite]

You can spend what we haven't got whether or not the clubs owners are billionaires. If the money isnt coming from footballing commercial activities/player sales then they are not just allowed to hand over a cash pot to buy players, until the rules change that will forever be the case 

[Miller11]

6 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

You can spend what we haven't got whether or not the clubs owners are billionaires. If the money isnt coming from footballing commercial activities/player sales then they are not just allowed to hand over a cash pot to buy players, until the rules change that will forever be the case 

And this is where we fall at the first hurdle. Incompetent owners employing incompetent people. You can’t just shrug your shoulders and blame everything on rules that everyone has to abide by. Parachute payments weren’t whinged about when we were receiving them, and I wonder if fans of Luton, Peterborough, Millwall and others whose losses aren’t subsidised by billionaire owners complain as much as we do?

There’s plenty the billionaire owners can spend on without FFP rules being a factor. Simple things like stadium and pitch maintenance are two of them. There’s no hiding behind the FFP excuse for the neglect in these areas.

Keeping the ground neat and tidy would be a start, and doing basic repairs. Maybe if we bothered to do this we might be able to sell some advertising and actually bring some money in to contribute to the playing budget. Instead we have pretty much nothing but Venky’s logos plastered all over the place, because the people those idiots have charged with running the club are out of their depth and under no pressure. They let players contracts run down and sell players on the cheap. 

Easier to blame it on the fans for not spending, and the nasty rules than acknowledging we are badly run from top to bottom though.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

Just because the owners are awful, doesn’t mean Mowbray doesn’t have it in his locker to be awful too….

Free pass in a lot of minds because the glove fits as does the club going nowhere most of the time.

In other minds he is genuinely a messiah because of the ownership issues.

[arbitro]

10 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Free pass in a lot of minds because the glove fits as does the club going nowhere most of the time.

In other minds he is genuinely a messiah because of the ownership issues.

Yep. Natural level and all that nonsense.

[The giorgis donis fanclub]

39 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

And this is where we fall at the first hurdle. Incompetent owners employing incompetent people. You can’t just shrug your shoulders and blame everything on rules that everyone has to abide by. Parachute payments weren’t whinged about when we were receiving them, and I wonder if fans of Luton, Peterborough, Millwall and others whose losses aren’t subsidised by billionaire owners complain as much as we do?

There’s plenty the billionaire owners can spend on without FFP rules being a factor. Simple things like stadium and pitch maintenance are two of them. There’s no hiding behind the FFP excuse for the neglect in these areas.

Keeping the ground neat and tidy would be a start, and doing basic repairs. Maybe if we bothered to do this we might be able to sell some advertising and actually bring some money in to contribute to the playing budget. Instead we have pretty much nothing but Venky’s logos plastered all over the place, because the people those idiots have charged with running the club are out of their depth and under no pressure. They let players contracts run down and sell players on the cheap. 

Easier to blame it on the fans for not spending, and the nasty rules than acknowledging we are badly run from top to bottom though.

Slight tangeant here people but where do we genuinely see rovers in say five years time, surely this loss making can't go on forever?

[Gav]

2 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

You can spend what we haven't got whether or not the clubs owners are billionaires. If the money isnt coming from footballing commercial activities/player sales then they are not just allowed to hand over a cash pot to buy players, until the rules change that will forever be the case 

With a debt of around £150m, these owners are spending money we haven't got and continue to do so because they're incompetent. They rode into the club and sacked the likes of Nelson, Salgado, Emerton and one of two others under the guise of getting the clubs finances under control.

Move forward 11yrs and we are still in the same position haemorrhaging money only now they're selling off club assets and Jack Walkers legacy in the process.

Its disgusting. 

[roversfan99]

Where did assumption ever come from that the main thing stopping Venkys from spending is more is FFP?  Do people think they otherwise would? Utter nonsense.

 

[tomphil]

Another nearly 7 million shares allotted for covering the bills and what not.

Mowbray is the luckiest manager in England to work for this lot.

[roversfan99]

Why does every share allotment make Mowbray a very lucky man? Makes no sense. That wont ever be seen by him, its merely Venkys raising funds to cover expenses outweighing income, moreso than need be due to themselves, but something that most/all Championship clubs need to do.

[SuperBrfc]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Why does every share allotment make Mowbray a very lucky man? Makes no sense. That wont ever be seen by him, its merely Venkys raising funds to cover expenses outweighing income, moreso than need be due to themselves, but something that most/all Championship clubs need to do.

I think it's more to do with them being happy to foot the bill (which they have to anyway), without there seemingly being any pressure, expectations or demands put on the manager to deliver. Regardless of results, he plods along unchallenged and they cover the bills.

It's a scenario that is almost unheard of in football and one that Mowbray is never likely to experience again at any other club.

[tomphil]

16 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

I think it's more to do with them being happy to foot the bill (which they have to anyway), without there seemingly being any pressure, expectations or demands put on the manager to deliver. Regardless of results, he plods along unchallenged and they cover the bills.

It's a scenario that is almost unheard of in football and one that Mowbray is never likely to experience again at any other club.

Exactly this, we've had an unexpected good first half of the season but something tells me even if we hadn't and this season mirrored last nowt would change.

[Blue blood]

13 hours ago, Gav said:

 

Nope.

As you say Bb, this manager and every other manager are just symptoms, we know where the real illness resides.  

 

Sounds like we have similar thoughts. Difference seems to be you seem a bit more sanguine/forgiving than me for the symptom that is TM. 

[Gav]

13 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Sounds like we have similar thoughts. Difference seems to be you seem a bit more sanguine/forgiving than me for the symptom that is TM. 

Fair comment Bb.

I'm of the opinion that Mowbray, like most managers under Venkys, is trying to manage with one had tied behind his back. Its not a popular opinion on here I know, but thats how I see things reading between the lines.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Gav

[rigger]

Can't get away tickets on-line, now. Is this another congestion easing scheme