v Barnsley (a) 18/9/21

[den]

2 unconvincing performances, 4 points.

2 clean sheets. See?

[hovis boy]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Another disappointing showing from Brereton up top. Needs to concentrate on playing and staying on his feet instead of going down and/or moaning with hands in air all the time.

I agree, his first touch is really poor and is knocked off the ball all to easily. But we have no one else, what was the club doing not replacing Armstrong. 

[neophox]

Think not bringing in Butterworth had to be that TM was pleased with a point and did not want to many offensive players on pitch. Hopefully Butterworth will be back for the next home game thrilling the fans.. Remember he's been out for a while so ease him in.. 

[islander200]

47 minutes ago, Gav said:

So I assume the answer is Mowbray has spent nothing?

The last time we spent decent money was 2019, 2yrs ago, we've spent bugger all since.

Who are these clubs you talk about Islander? How are these clubs doing better than we are?

Please don't think I'm having a go at you, thats not my intention, I'm just trying to understand why you think he's been backed every summer he's been here? 

 

 

He hasn't been backed this summer.

Last summer transfer fees paid out might have been low but Kaminski and Pickering were brought in on permanent deals.A commitment was made to bring Ayayla to the club again that wouldn't have been cheap.6 of the 12 players signed last season were loans but again add them together it still costs.

Have you seen many teams spending money on transfer fee since the pandemic started? I haven't and the ones who have  have sold players to fund it.

I'm not having a go at you either but have noticed you saying Mowbray has no budget a few times and to me that is nonsense, he has had a very healthy wage bill to play with , was allowed to spend 7 million on Brererton and even when Brererton looked a poor signing and wasn't playing the owners still gave him another 5 Million to go out and buy Gallagher.

Barnsley last season finished top 6 won't have a budget like ours.Teams like Luton and Preston finishing ahead of us in the table,they won't be paying the wages we do 

Mowbray want to operate with a big squad so he can change things every week,Like last summer instead of bringing in 6 loan players we couldn't have found a couple of cheap players from league 1 to develop as our own,they probably wouldn't have cost much more than what we paid out for the loanees.This summer the loan market was a necessity but again that comes down to not spending what money we did have correctly.

He has had 4 years here and is yet to give the team an identity.Worrying about the opposition every week instead of playing to our strengths.He is a poor manager 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by islander200

[neophox]

,, 6th.. And Rankin-Costello, Johnson, Gallagher and soon even Wharton back.. 

Then if we around Christmas is still around the top we will have Bradley Dack back!! 

[oozy]

4 minutes ago, neophox said:

,, 6th.. And Rankin-Costello, Johnson, Gallagher and soon even Wharton back.. 

Then if we around Christmas is still around the top we will have Bradley Dack back!! 

lol...we can dream! Even the optimist in me can't help but feel that's a bit of a stretch

[oozy]

Thought Kaminski and Travis were very good today, and the rest of the defence pretty good. Ayala has made a big difference to our solidity. Hopefully he can remain injury-free.

Attacking-wise, we were pretty poor. Really felt Buckley was poor in terms of progression, and was thinking he'd be the first off. Surprised he played the full 90. Rothwell didn't seem his usual self and the front 3 worked hard but that's about it (and Diaz should have scored!).

Poveda and Clarkson don't seem to be any great shakes. The way many of these loan deals work is there is some sort of financial penalty if they don't play when fit. Such a pity because Butterworth really deserved to play a part today. I really hope the loanees having to play does not stifle our talent.

Edited September 18, 2021 by oozy

[joey_big_nose]

Brereton does seem a better wide player to me than a striker.  Which is mad given his size. But there it is.

We could do with a proper physical target man who knows how to head a ball. Like Graham or Gestede.

Must be someone knocking around on a free?

 

[ossyian]

4 minutes ago, oozy said:

Thought Kaminski and Travis were very good today, and the rest of the defence pretty good. Ayala has made a big difference to our solidity. Hopefully he can remain injury-free.

Attacking-wise, we were pretty poor. Really felt Buckley was poor in terms of progression, and was thinking he'd be the first off. Surprised he played the full 90. Rothwell didn't seem his usual self and the front 3 worked hard but that's about it (and Diaz should have scored!).

Poveda and Clarkson don't seem to be any great shakes. The way many of these loan deals work is there is some sort of financial penalty if they don't play when fit. Such a pity because Butterworth really deserved to play a part today. I really hope the loanees having to play does not stifle our talent.

I like Rothwell but he was dog shit today and deserved to be taken off.  I thought Trav and Buckley did ok without being outstanding. Defence pretty solid and another clean sheet is heartening again. Not an easy place to get points but thought we did ok 

[arbitro]

It's another point towards staying in the Championship but I have to say Barnsley were there for the taking. We were quite solid defensively and restricted Barnsley to very few chances but our attacking play left a lot to be desired and poor finishing when we did actually create something. There wasn't a great tempo to our play and lots of misplaced or wrongly weighted passes. Brereton was more Brereton than Diaz again and Poveda didn't really contribute too much. Dolan was frustrating as he did some really good things and then spoiled it with a poor final pass or wrong decision. Travis was our star man in my opinion with lots of tackles and decent distribution. Overall I wasn't too disappointed with a draw but it was well within us to have taken all three points.

[bluebruce]

28 minutes ago, neophox said:

,, 6th.. And Rankin-Costello, Johnson, Gallagher and soon even Wharton back.. 

Then if we around Christmas is still around the top we will have Bradley Dack back!! 

Most of those will take time to get up to speed, and some are prone to mixed form anyway. We will also inevitably pick up more injuries yet.

[booth]

10 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Brereton does seem a better wide player to me than a striker.  Which is mad given his size. But there it is.

We could do with a proper physical target man who knows how to head a ball. Like Graham or Gestede.

Must be someone knocking around on a free?

 

We desperately need a senior striker that can stay fit and give the opposition defence problems. If only we'd spent that £5m for Gallagher more wisely!

[SoldierMo]

Amount of times Buckley wins the ball back is brilliant

[rovers11]

Poor performance but a clean sheet and another point in the bag. I'd have taken 6th at this stage before the season started so can't complain too much. 

Poveda was really poor. I'm sure there's more to come from him once he's fully fit. Clarkson doesn't look anywhere near ready for first team football unfortunately. The same can be said for Buckley. 

Ayala is an absolute rock at the back and Kaminiski saved the day when it looked like they were gonna score. Khadra looks like he's going to be a big asset. 

[Gav]

59 minutes ago, islander200 said:

He hasn't been backed this summer.

I'm not having a go at you either but have noticed you saying Mowbray has no budget a few times and to me that is nonsense, he has had a very healthy wage bill to play with , was allowed to spend 7 million on Brererton and even when Brererton looked a poor signing and wasn't playing the owners still gave him another 5 Million to go out and buy Gallagher.

 

You're original point was Mowbray has had a decent budget to spend, I said he hasn't since 2019, you don't get promoted from this league without buying decent players.

What you actually mean is he's been able to pay wages, well who hasn't? But those wages are poor and the reason why we signed nobody in the summer of note.

We are a mid table championship side, have the budget of a mid table championship side and will end up mid table.

Venkys Out.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Gav

[simongarnerisgod]

big ben did alright,never stopped running and gave the barnsley centre back a busy afternoon,he is`nt however a hold up man,rothwell was played in the wrong postion,poveda was useless(i hope there is more to come from him),buckley was out of position as well,we are a lot stronger defensively,you complain about a point away from home against a pretty decent side

[ossyian]

31 minutes ago, SoldierMo said:

Amount of times Buckley wins the ball back is brilliant

Goes unnoticed by most on here for some reason

[matt83]

One thing I genuinely wonder (worry) about is we have a mid table attendance, presumably a mid table revenue that goes with it, mid table players, mid table manger, no proper executives, yet we lose £20 million every season whereas our counterparts dont. Where the F does it all go? Why aren’t we at least breaking even with a squad that’s got a significant amount of academy players. 

Mowbray tends to extend contracts of players who aren’t good enough or surplus to requirement, the squad has always been too big yet simultaneously lacking, one has to assume those that are good enough are being paid far more than our mid table rivals. But a £20 million loss a year, how.

This shambles is on the manager, but like every other manager he’ll waste money that isn’t his, but why the owners allow this is beyond me. Rather than simply being grateful they sign a cheque every season let’s try and run the club properly like a proper business. 

[islander200]

19 minutes ago, Gav said:

You're original point was Mowbray has had a decent budget to spend, I said he hasn't since 2019, you don't get promoted from this league without buying decent players.

What you actually mean is he's been able to pay wages, well who hasn't? But those wages are poor and the reason why we signed nobody in the summer of note.

We are a mid table championship side, have the budget of a mid table championship side and will end up mid table.

Venkys Out.

 

 

This summer you have a point.

Last summer included Mowbray been backed more than most managers in this division.

Like I said,we have been in the midst of a pandemic, parachute payment teams and teams who sold players were the teams investing in the market.

I would love Venkys out but Mowbray should have done a lot better with what he has had to spend.No matter what you say there is no disputing that.

11 players were brought to the club last summer Gav.Do you think we paid nothing for them?

Edited September 18, 2021 by islander200

[Gav]

3 minutes ago, islander200 said:

This summer you have a point.

Last summer included Mowbray been backed more than most managers in this division.

We signed nobody of note last summer either, or in January 2020 Islander? 

Who did we sign that would challenge the likes of Norwich, Watford or Brentford?

That’s the level we need to reach, regardless of who the manager is?

Edited September 18, 2021 by Gav

[Waggy76]

10 minutes ago, matt83 said:

One thing I genuinely wonder (worry) about is we have a mid table attendance, presumably a mid table revenue that goes with it, mid table players, mid table manger, no proper executives, yet we lose £20 million every season whereas our counterparts dont. Where the F does it all go? Why aren’t we at least breaking even with a squad that’s got a significant amount of academy players. 

Mowbray tends to extend contracts of players who aren’t good enough or surplus to requirement, the squad has always been too big yet simultaneously lacking, one has to assume those that are good enough are being paid far more than our mid table rivals. But a £20 million loss a year, how.

This shambles is on the manager, but like every other manager he’ll waste money that isn’t his, but why the owners allow this is beyond me. Rather than simply being grateful they sign a cheque every season let’s try and run the club properly like a proper business. 

Your first paragraph is spot on , I have been wondering that  since the Venkys pitched up ...

[Ianrally]

1 hour ago, neophox said:

,, 6th.. And Rankin-Costello, Johnson, Gallagher and soon even Wharton back.. 

Then if we around Christmas is still around the top we will have Bradley Dack back!! 

Dream on. I’ve taken a screen shot of today’s table so I can look at it at Christmas and remember how high up the league we were. 
My feeling is that we have as much chance of finishing in the top six as Oscar Pestorious has of contracting athletes foot. 

[tomphil]

15 minutes ago, matt83 said:

One thing I genuinely wonder (worry) about is we have a mid table attendance, presumably a mid table revenue that goes with it, mid table players, mid table manger, no proper executives, yet we lose £20 million every season whereas our counterparts dont. Where the F does it all go? Why aren’t we at least breaking even with a squad that’s got a significant amount of academy players. 

Mowbray tends to extend contracts of players who aren’t good enough or surplus to requirement, the squad has always been too big yet simultaneously lacking, one has to assume those that are good enough are being paid far more than our mid table rivals. But a £20 million loss a year, how.

This shambles is on the manager, but like every other manager he’ll waste money that isn’t his, but why the owners allow this is beyond me. Rather than simply being grateful they sign a cheque every season let’s try and run the club properly like a proper business. 

Just my opinion and always has been but i'm very suspicious of the overal wage bill at Rovers and the losses.  Despite the cuts every now and again the owners not only seem happy to pour it through but almost encourage it at times.

I don't think it's anything dodgy that would've flagged up by now but there is to me definitely corporate number crunching goes on. Maybe some gets drawn out funding somebody in this end as well on the clubs books.

Barrys european spending money maybe.

It never seems to add up though and lets face it the football industry will be full of loopholes regarding big money. That's why it's a honeypot attracting the wealthy with money to be burn and the chancers only too happy to burn it for them.

Edited September 18, 2021 by tomphil

[islander200]

19 minutes ago, Gav said:

We signed nobody of note last summer either, or in January 2020 Islander? 

Who did we sign that would challenge the likes of Norwich, Watford or Brentford?

That’s the level we need to reach, regardless of who the manager is?

He has had 4 years in the job which is a lifetime in this day and age.3 out of 4 years he has been backed in the market, he has built nothing with the money.Every year it's a different plan by him, a different style, every season at least 6 players he has brought in.

Another manager, after 4 years and the money spent would have us in a better position.Its on Mowbray that he hamstrung the club by giving out stupid contracts to ageing and substandard players.

Mulgrew case in point one of our highest earners due to Mowbray hardly kicked a ball for us for two years yet we still paying him.

Extensions for Smallwood, Bennett, Evans.Too loyal to players that were never taking us to the next level.Pissing money away and you think it is all the owners fault and poor Tony what a bad hand he was dealt.

When Norwich got promoted first season they would have had similar budget as ourselves, same with Sheffield United .

Those teams had a manager with a plan though.Mowbrays plan is to copy whichever manager wins the premier league.Got relegated to league one and thought he was Conte after winning the premier league with 3 at the back.

The owners are the biggest issue but Mowbray has left our squad In a very poor state.

Good managers get you promoted from this league.Sheffield united, Huddersfield,Norwich and others did not spend crazy and they got promoted.

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by islander200

[booth]

3 minutes ago, Gav said:

We signed nobody of note last summer Islander? 

Who did we sign that would challenge the likes of Norwich, Watford or Brentford? As that’s the level we need to reach?

Pickering, Dolan, Kaminski, Ayala - all first team regulars now.

Some of those were on a free, but as I understand it not on the cheap.

He signed 14 players in all inc loans.

He had a 29 goal striker. Besides that £12m worth of attackers.

15th place finish seems unacceptable when you look at the bigger picture. And when you look at it game for game, his regular tinkering led to a lot of dropped points - not necessarily personnel.

Regarding the other teams (inc loans).

Norwich signed 14.
Watford 19.
Brentford 21 (inc Toney)