v Blackpool (a) - 2/10/21

[arbitro]

18 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

That old chestnut again.

Eleven years of innuendo and not a shred of evidence that's the case.

 

But you speculated that it's an Indian culture thing and they want to save face. None of us know but you can't really dismiss somebody else's speculation when that is exactly what you are doing.

[AllRoverAsia]

25 minutes ago, Gav said:

Unless they’re hiding something…

That kind of triggered me to look up the long serving Cheston .... can't find him on the Rovers website, or Waggott for that matter.

There used to be a Who's Who but that seems to be hiding at the moment.

Maybe its just me struggling with the user-unfriendly piece of crap that the Rovers website is.

Anyway if anyone knows where the bodies are ......

[Gav]

11 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not been counting. Once?

And the Berg thing was a Civil dispute about contractual matters, nothing whatsoever to do with  criminality or illegality - but as an intelligent chap I'm sure you're more than well aware of that already and are just stirring things.

I’ll tell you what is criminal, the way they’ve destroyed this football club, businesses, families and the town.

That’s not innuendo and I’ve plenty of evidence to back it up.

[RevidgeBlue]

There's a lot of absolute tosh being put out on this thread imo. People are letting their personal dislike of the owners cloud their judgement and they simply aren't thinking objectively or rationally.

I'd summarise it as follows:

1) Overall, the last eleven years have been terrible despite phenomenal financial backing from the owners.

2) However IF we had a top class management team in situ at Ewood both in the dug out and behind the scenes we'd be far better off with Venky's financial backing than without it. (Or any other potential owner of equivalent wealth - trouble is there aren't any of those about)

3) I'm led to believe that changes are in the offing at the Club. However, and this is just purely my personal opinion, there is absolutely no point fiddling around at the edges and doing a bit of window dressing. If we are to prosper major change is necessary: I.e. 

- the best manager and coaching staff we can attract need to be brought in

- a competent CEO needs to be brought in.

- Players need to be looked after based on their ability, our better players should earn more than the rest of the squad  and the squad as a whole needs to be a lot leaner. If the other players aren't up to it they need to be cut adrift far sooner, not simply be given deal after deal because they have families and mortgages to pay etc.

- We also need to concentrate on our Academy not concentrate on selling it. And on the progression of our own youngsters into the first team. Not that of other Club's youngsters who are in the main no better but deemed to be so because they've been offloaded by a PL Club..

- A complete revamp of the commercial side of the Club is needed. We need to increase revenue rather than just simply look at cutting costs by downsizing the operation all the time.

-  There needs to be a massive effort to re-engage with the fan base as a whole and I think that this is only possible with a change of manager who will fire the fans' imagination, an innovative CEO, a change to a more attractive pricing policy and an acknowledgement that those on the ground at the Club got it badly wrong at the worst possible time over the last couple of years.

I'm led to believe that one or two of these sort of changes are already being implemented and there's a lot more planned. Who knows whether the changes will be wide and far reaching enough at the end of the day? I think if we haven't seen any noticeable change in 18-24 months then it's fair to assume it's unlikely to happen.

Let's not chuck the baby out with the bathwater in the meantime though.

 

[RevidgeBlue]

28 minutes ago, Gav said:

I’ll tell you what is criminal, the way they’ve destroyed this football club, businesses, families and the town.

That’s not innuendo and I’ve plenty of evidence to back it up.

Fair enough, but that's nothing whatsoever to do with having anything illegal  to hide which was the original accusation you were waving about without any basis.

[RevidgeBlue]

46 minutes ago, arbitro said:

But you speculated that it's an Indian culture thing and they want to save face. None of us know but you can't really dismiss somebody else's speculation when that is exactly what you are doing.

Bit of a difference. My "speculation" is my opinion based on what I've heard from several different people with experience of Indian business culture.

The other speculation about "skeletons in the Cupboard" has remained innuendo for the best part of eleven years and if there was anything whatsoever in it some concrete evidence would surely have surfaced long before now.

If anything the opposite has occurred as they haven't cut and run and have continued to plough money in way beyond everyone's initial expectations demonstrating genuine financial clout.

Albeit it has gone to waste and will continue to do so unless major change occurs.

[broadsword]

26 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

There's a lot of absolute tosh being put out on this thread imo. People are letting their personal dislike of the owners cloud their judgement and they simply aren't thinking objectively or rationally.

I'd summarise it as follows:

1) Overall, the last eleven years have been terrible despite phenomenal financial backing from the owners.

2) However IF we had a top class management team in situ at Ewood both in the dug out and behind the scenes we'd be far better off with Venky's financial backing than without it. (Or any other potential owner of equivalent wealth - trouble is there aren't any of those about)

3) I'm led to believe that changes are in the offing at the Club. However, and this is just purely my personal opinion, there is absolutely no point fiddling around at the edges and doing a bit of window dressing. If we are to prosper major change is necessary: I.e. 

- the best manager and coaching staff we can attract need to be brought in

- a competent CEO needs to be brought in.

- Players need to be looked after based on their ability, our better players should earn more than the rest of the squad  and the squad as a whole needs to be a lot leaner. If the other players aren't up to it they need to be cut adrift far sooner, not simply be given deal after deal because they have families and mortgages to pay etc.

- We also need to concentrate on our Academy not concentrate on selling it. And on the progression of our own youngsters into the first team. Not that of other Club's youngsters who are in the main no better but deemed to be so because they've been offloaded by a PL Club..

- A complete revamp of the commercial side of the Club is needed. We need to increase revenue rather than just simply look at cutting costs by downsizing the operation all the time.

-  There needs to be a massive effort to re-engage with the fan base as a whole and I think that this is only possible with a change of manager who will fire the fans' imagination, an innovative CEO, a change to a more attractive pricing policy and an acknowledgement that those on the ground at the Club got it badly wrong at the worst possible time over the last couple of years.

I'm led to believe that one or two of these sort of changes are already being implemented and there's a lot more planned. Who knows whether the changes will be wide and far reaching enough at the end of the day? I think if we haven't seen any noticeable change in 18-24 months then it's fair to assume it's unlikely to happen.

Let's not chuck the baby out with the bathwater in the meantime though.

 

Jam tomorrow, just like we've been promised for the last eleven years. 

The Club is being run into the ground. Competent ceo, complete revamp, managerial, coaching staff and player recruitment. Why does all of that need to be sorted? Because Venky's have bloody well wrecked everything. We've had eleven years of all of that being totally hammered to pieces, ruining all of the work of the jack walker Era. Where exactly does flogging of half the training ground for housing fit into these exciting plans to turn everything around? It doesn't, does it? As someone said to me once, don't look at what people say, look at what they do. 

 

I wouldn't say we've had phenomenal financial backing at all. Have the club's assets been increased? Nope. What I think it actually is, is phenomenal financial damage. A monstrous increase in liabilities which means we're now beholden to the very people who put us in this mess in the first place. We're a basket case of a club that no one would be interested in buying. And the longer Venky's stay, the worse it gets. They're not capable of fixing the problems they've created. But much worse than that, they're not even bloody interested in fixing the problems they've created. The income stream is shrinking, the cost base isn't shrinking apace with it, they've tried to sell fixed assets presumably to service debt repayment. We're a zombie club, and alarm bells should be ringing. Jesus, they can't even keep the ground clean and tidy. 

Why anyone would want them to carry on in the folorn hope that barry venky will have an epiphany while he's sat on the pot munching PB jelly sandwiches on the bog phone to fifty cent, I really have no idea. I don't want to live in false hope, let's get them gone and  pick up the pieces

[broadsword]

I seem to remember it coming out that Venky's bought the club on the premise that it would need £5m pa to fund it. 

I would assume that they're not happy funding it at this current level, that's why it won't ever get fixed. Eventually they're going to get fed up of this lark, they're clearly no good at it, and it's costing them dearly

[Leonard Venkhater]

38 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Bit of a difference. My "speculation" is my opinion based on what I've heard from several different people with experience of Indian business culture.

The other speculation about "skeletons in the Cupboard" has remained innuendo for the best part of eleven years and if there was anything whatsoever in it some concrete evidence would surely have surfaced long before now.

If anything the opposite has occurred as they haven't cut and run and have continued to plough money in way beyond everyone's initial expectations demonstrating genuine financial clout.

Albeit it has gone to waste and will continue to do so unless major change occurs.

Actually, I share your hope/fantasy that life could be so much better with the formula of Venky's backing + competent, Rovers oriented management.

However, you really do have to wonder why this backing has gone to waste for so many years and why has there been such a dramatic persistence in appointing under qualified people in so many key positions.

That got us relegated twice and has given us such a miserable decade.

To dismiss reasonable,  justifiable anger and frustration with that as mere " personal dislike of the owners" is just going to alienate people.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Leonard Venkhater

[arbitro]

44 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Bit of a difference. My "speculation" is my opinion based on what I've heard from several different people with experience of Indian business culture.

The other speculation about "skeletons in the Cupboard" has remained innuendo for the best part of eleven years and if there was anything whatsoever in it some concrete evidence would surely have surfaced long before now.

If anything the opposite has occurred as they haven't cut and run and have continued to plough money in way beyond everyone's initial expectations demonstrating genuine financial clout.

Albeit it has gone to waste and will continue to do so unless major change occurs.

Saving face to the tune of £180m? Sorry I'm not buying that line at all. 

As I said the truth is none of us know and after eleven years they are as mysterious as they were pretty much from day one. I'm not buying into this 'change' story at all primarily because I don't trust them to enforce a change radical enough to benefit us.

[Gone to seed]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

That old chestnut again.

Eleven years of innuendo and not a shred of evidence that's the case.

 

Lol, no, not a shred of evidence left in the place... No management oversight locally, no place at the table with football's elite, no Ronaldo (in any guise), no Premier League status, no significant fan-base relative to the size of the town anymore, no apparent clue in the transfer market, not one iota of a consistent style of play (unless you count baffling as an authentic choice from the dugout), no visibility or direction from the owners, no clue as to what comes next.

No, nay, never - not a shred of fooking evidence that something dodgy is going on at Ewood 🤣

[Mattyblue]

IF they appoint x, change y and transform  z… IF, IF, IF.

They haven’t done any of the things you outlined in 11 years Rev, so why would they start now? ‘I’ve heard that there are BIG changes in the offing, plans to… ‘ If I’ve heard that straw clutching once this past decade, I’ve heard it a 100 times.

Maybe they are just content to run the club this way, content to inject the cash, content to let the likes of Waggott tinker at the edges, content for ‘nice men’ like TM to quietly plod on. Minimum of fuss for all involved and they can concentrate on their poultry, their vaccines etc.

For me, it’s fantasy land stuff to expect this ‘new dawn’ that we’ve always heard plenty about, yet never remotely see any evidence of, over this sorry decade.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Mattyblue

[Gone to seed]

43 minutes ago, broadsword said:

I seem to remember it coming out that Venky's bought the club on the premise that it would need £5m pa to fund it. 

I would assume that they're not happy funding it at this current level, that's why it won't ever get fixed. Eventually they're going to get fed up of this lark, they're clearly no good at it, and it's costing them dearly

Actually, what we can concluded is that the ARE very good at funding at the current level. It's just that no-one has a cuckoo's clue why...

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 02/10/2021 at 21:32, dallydally said:

My mental health is fine thanks. I don't need to move on anywhere. All I was saying is I don't get why he manages to find his way into a Premiership team. No grudges here just honesty

Well he does and a excellent manager picks him, so there must be something 

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 02/10/2021 at 22:23, Butty said:

Not like you to stick up for an Irishman big doggy dog. 😉

Blah , blah, blah 

[TheRoversReturn]

13 hours ago, bluebruce said:

I understand letting us go to the wall would reflect terribly on them back home

Mate, there's literally nobody in India who gives a f about Rovers or the Venky's owning us. None. Trust me, I worked in Mumbai when we still had Bowyer. Football isn't massive there like cricket and, when it is, they're focused on the Prem and Man Utd.

It's really not a reason.

[TheRoversReturn]

9 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

While it’s a mystery why they continue to find a chronically loss-making enterprise brought about entirely by their idiocy, there’s no mystery financial shenanigans behind it all IMO. These aren’t paper losses, this is cold hard negative cash flow - £180 million and counting has been sent over, given to BRFC mostly in exchange for worthless share certificates, and paid out to a massive cast of not good enoughs.

...and none of that makes any sense. None.

£180 million?!?!?!? Jesus wept...

[Butty]

10 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Blah , blah, blah 

🤣 is that a bite? 🎣 

[Exiled in Toronto]

5 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

But if that cash was destined for the tax man and has merely been redirected to a loss making subsidiary, the true cost to them is zero.

For that to be true, they would have to be paying a tax rate of 100% on profits elsewhere: losses are offset against profits, not the tax paid on profits. Plus there are plenty of ways to generate a loss in a P&L that don’t involve waving goodbye to cash. Cash flow and profit/loss are two very different things.

For someone to keep losing this much cash, they must either be so rich they don’t notice/care (there are people who buy $200 million yachts and then don’t use them) or so proud they will never admit a mistake.

[roversfan99]

11 hours ago, bigbrandjohn said:

Nothing like sending Brereton Diaz off to Chile brimming with confidence. 
“He didn't first-half, did he? Let's be honest, he wasn't very good in the first-half," exclaimed the Rovers boss.”

True,  but not great timing. He will get tapped when he is away i am sure. 

Could argue that he is keeping his feet on the ground. He has been publically very supportive of Brereton for years.

[USABlue]

Combination of vacation and.an ongoing hospital stay fot chronic pneumonia with cepsis and he starts our first death spiral of the season perfectly timed to use an international break to relieve pressure on himself.  Come on Venkies you.know.je's stifling your brand here.  Get.shut.

[Gav]

5 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I'd summarise it as follows:

1) Overall, the last eleven years have been terrible despite phenomenal financial backing from the owners.

2) However IF we had a top class management team in situ at Ewood both in the dug out and behind the scenes we'd be far better off with Venky's financial backing than without it. (Or any other potential owner of equivalent wealth - trouble is there aren't any of those about)

3) I'm led to believe that changes are in the offing at the Club. However, and this is just purely my personal opinion, there is absolutely no point fiddling around at the edges and doing a bit of window dressing. If we are to prosper major change is necessary: I.e. 

- the best manager and coaching staff we can attract need to be brought in

- a competent CEO needs to be brought in.

- Players need to be looked after based on their ability, our better players should earn more than the rest of the squad  and the squad as a whole needs to be a lot leaner. If the other players aren't up to it they need to be cut adrift far sooner, not simply be given deal after deal because they have families and mortgages to pay etc.

- We also need to concentrate on our Academy not concentrate on selling it. And on the progression of our own youngsters into the first team. Not that of other Club's youngsters who are in the main no better but deemed to be so because they've been offloaded by a PL Club..

- A complete revamp of the commercial side of the Club is needed. We need to increase revenue rather than just simply look at cutting costs by downsizing the operation all the time.

-  There needs to be a massive effort to re-engage with the fan base as a whole and I think that this is only possible with a change of manager who will fire the fans' imagination, an innovative CEO, a change to a more attractive pricing policy and an acknowledgement that those on the ground at the Club got it badly wrong at the worst possible time over the last couple of years.

 

Let’s just say, for arguments sake, that all this came true, that would make us a mid table functioning championship side with a massive debt in the background, as apposed to a dysfunctional mid to lower level championship side with a massive debt in the background, hardly groundbreaking when you put it into perspective. 

Nothing improves here until the owners sod off, you’re still backing the wrong horse. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Gav

[roversinmyblood]

3 hours ago, TheRoversReturn said:

Mate, there's literally nobody in India who gives a f about Rovers or the Venky's owning us. None. Trust me, I worked in Mumbai when we still had Bowyer. Football isn't massive there like cricket and, when it is, they're focused on the Prem and Man Utd.

It's really not a reason.

It’s not the general public they would be concerned about, it’s their fellow successful business friends and associates. They are the ones who they don’t want to lose face with. They won’t want to be seen as failures. 

[lraC]

5 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Bit of a difference. My "speculation" is my opinion based on what I've heard from several different people with experience of Indian business culture.

The other speculation about "skeletons in the Cupboard" has remained innuendo for the best part of eleven years and if there was anything whatsoever in it some concrete evidence would surely have surfaced long before now.

If anything the opposite has occurred as they haven't cut and run and have continued to plough money in way beyond everyone's initial expectations demonstrating genuine financial clout.

Albeit it has gone to waste and will continue to do so unless major change occurs.

There is plenty of evidence that there are skeletons in the closet.  Not that I like him, but Allardyce brought some to the surface several times. Glen Mullan brought plenty to the surface too, it’s just that some powerful people, decided to sweep it under the carpet.

Look at how the BBC managed to keep a lid on a severe deviant for decades, despite there being plenty of evidence to nail him before his death. Sometimes it is possible, especially with financial clout to cover things up and I can’t help but think, this is the case here. 

[lraC]

For those who want to believe there were no skeletons in the closet fine. I am sure some people would also like to say that the story still available if you click the link below, is bull, but for the open minded amongst us and especially those who haven’t read it, take a look....http://roversrevisited2.blogspot.com/2016/09/good-money-if-you-can-get-it.html?m=1